Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

Many things will have and are always written about football. Every man and his dog thinks that they know the right way to play, the tactics to employ, and the right formation.

The current vogue (amongst the commentators at least) is the 4-5-1 formation, with a recognised striker dropping off, often to the left or right wing, and leaving one up front. Now although I see why people think this is the way teams play, strikers dropping off is nothing new, The King was expert at it, but nobody ever thought we played 4-5-1 in the 80's.

It is a common (wrong) perception, with the surge of Andy Gray like idiots who analyse and over analyse the games till the early hours, but the fact of the matter is, strikers dropping off to pick up the ball is nothing new.

I do not think that Rafa played five in midfield last night, surely he would be crazy to play our most in form highest scoring striker in midfield! A mate of mine said that we play better with 4-5-1, but I beg to differ.

I beleive the reason for our success last night, and most teams success throughout the years has been on a solid and sound defence. Let me explain......

The return of Steve Finnan, (my how we missed the lad at right back) is a joy to behold. After a year long sabatical in his first season, where he flattered to deceive, and left most of us baffled as to what happened to the solid attacking right back we had seen at Fulham, Steve has come back this season under Rafa, and impressed me a hell of a lot. When he was asked to do a job at right wing due to the injuries, he was superb. He also proved to Rafa he is the best right back at the club following his return to the defence after Josemi's nightmare. A quiet, unassuming Irish man, solid and dependable, with the liverbird upon his chest, it takes me back.............

Jamie Carragher, what can you say about the lad. Surely every Scouse reds' hero following pound throwing and rumours of Stevie G getting a clip round the ear for thinking he was as good as the London press (who where simply  paving the way for a move to Chelski) where telling him he was. Despite being the target of the boo boys on the Kop a couple of seasons ago for his apparent reluctance to pass the half way line, Jamie has grown into a callosus (sp?) and is surely as influential as Alonso, Baros and Stevie G himself in terms of what he brings to the team. A loud, brash, heart on the sleeve, local lad who sweats blood for the cause, that takes me back......

Pellegrino has a lot to prove, but following Carraghers instructions last night in the tunnel (not seen it yet, but SKY+ will provide the evidence later), he did exactly what you wanted him to, NOTHING stupid, NOTHING fancy, and dealt with it. I personally do not think it is a mere co-incedence that he looked a much more accomplished player, and more like a two times la liga winner, when Carragher was alongside. I think Sami may struggle to get back in if those two build up a rapport.

And then there was Djimi. What can you say about the lad, someone must have pulled him to one side, and said "Écoutent l'jeune homme, je vous avais observé jouer et vous êtes vraiment bon, ces tours, et les overs d'étape, vous êtes vraiment un maître de l'art footballing " (In English that is "Listen lad, I have been watching you play and you are really good, those turns, and the step overs, you are really a master of the footballing art"). Why he needs to complicate things with the constant step overs and turns is beyond me. I think Djimi will be replaced once we either get a new lad in, or Kewell comes back and Riise reverts to left back. The fact that in the 93rd minute, whilst marauding down the wing, instead of running the ball into the corner Djimi tried another of those ill fated turns tells me this lad is not for turning, and we are best to sell him to whoever will give us half a million.

The solidity and reliability of the defece breeds confidence, and allows the midfielders to get on with building attacks instead of worrying about helping a dodgy back four. This is the reason we won, and the best way to ensure we continue to fair better.

The lads get a nice break now, with no game for almost a fortnight, so recuperation and rest are the order of the day. No Injuries (hopefully), and fitter stronger fresher players (including possibly Smicer I hear) for the business end of the season.

Cardiff here we come............

[simolonge]

Jesus christ, d yoo have a job!!

Qlty, agree 200percent.

grt thread.

[stmichael]

Many things will have and are always written about football. Every man and his dog thinks that they know the right way to play, the tactics to employ, and the right formation.

The current vogue (amongst the commentators at least) is the 4-5-1 formation, with a recognised striker dropping off, often to the left or right wing, and leaving one up front. Now although I see why people think this is the way teams play, strikers dropping off is nothing new, The King was expert at it, but nobody ever thought we played 4-5-1 in the 80's.

It is a common (wrong) perception, with the surge of Andy Gray like idiots who analyse and over analyse the games till the early hours, but the fact of the matter is, strikers dropping off to pick up the ball is nothing new.

I do not think that Rafa played five in midfield last night, surely he would be crazy to play our most in form highest scoring striker in midfield! A mate of mine said that we play better with 4-5-1, but I beg to differ.

I beleive the reason for our success last night, and most teams success throughout the years has been on a solid and sound defence. Let me explain......

The return of Steve Finnan, (my how we missed the lad at right back) is a joy to behold. After a year long sabatical in his first season, where he flattered to deceive, and left most of us baffled as to what happened to the solid attacking right back we had seen at Fulham, Steve has come back this season under Rafa, and impressed me a hell of a lot. When he was asked to do a job at right wing due to the injuries, he was superb. He also proved to Rafa he is the best right back at the club following his return to the defence after Josemi's nightmare. A quiet, unassuming Irish man, solid and dependable, with the liverbird upon his chest, it takes me back.............

Jamie Carragher, what can you say about the lad. Surely every Scouse reds' hero following pound throwing and rumours of Stevie G getting a clip round the ear for thinking he was as good as the London press (who where simply  paving the way for a move to Chelski) where telling him he was. Despite being the target of the boo boys on the Kop a couple of seasons ago for his apparent reluctance to pass the half way line, Jamie has grown into a callosus (sp?) and is surely as influential as Alonso, Baros and Stevie G himself in terms of what he brings to the team. A loud, brash, heart on the sleeve, local lad who sweats blood for the cause, that takes me back......

Pellegrino has a lot to prove, but following Carraghers instructions last night in the tunnel (not seen it yet, but SKY+ will provide the evidence later), he did exactly what you wanted him to, NOTHING stupid, NOTHING fancy, and dealt with it. I personally do not think it is a mere co-incedence that he looked a much more accomplished player, and more like a two times la liga winner, when Carragher was alongside. I think Sami may struggle to get back in if those two build up a rapport.

And then there was Djimi. What can you say about the lad, someone must have pulled him to one side, and said "Écoutent l'jeune homme, je vous avais observé jouer et vous êtes vraiment bon, ces tours, et les overs d'étape, vous êtes vraiment un maître de l'art footballing " (In English that is "Listen lad, I have been watching you play and you are really good, those turns, and the step overs, you are really a master of the footballing art"). Why he needs to complicate things with the constant step overs and turns is beyond me. I think Djimi will be replaced once we either get a new lad in, or Kewell comes back and Riise reverts to left back. The fact that in the 93rd minute, whilst marauding down the wing, instead of running the ball into the corner Djimi tried another of those ill fated turns tells me this lad is not for turning, and we are best to sell him to whoever will give us half a million.

The solidity and reliability of the defece breeds confidence, and allows the midfielders to get on with building attacks instead of worrying about helping a dodgy back four. This is the reason we won, and the best way to ensure we continue to fair better.

The lads get a nice break now, with no game for almost a fortnight, so recuperation and rest are the order of the day. No Injuries (hopefully), and fitter stronger fresher players (including possibly Smicer I hear) for the business end of the season.

Cardiff here we come............

great post leon which i agree with wholeheartedly

it's no major surprise that we move jamie carragher back into central defence and we look about ten times more secure than we did against manure and southampton. jamie just doesn't have the necessary skills to be an effective fullback.

and as for finnan, i've always rated the lad. he was just another guy who suffered a crisis of confidence under houllier last season.

[dawson99]

greta post leon, and i almost 100 % agree
Pellegrino didnt do anything fancy, but hes still slower than anyone else. he is taking too much time on the ball and is being caught out again and again, this will improove tho.
Im with u on finnan and carragher, they both had fantastic games, but i think that djimi had a better game than usual. He does try to eb a little too fancy sometimes (putting himself in the window? but falling through it) but he was solid and gave his all last night.

Overall im just looking to cardiff and will see you there sir

[Leonmc0708]

jamie just doesn't have the necessary skills to be an effective fullback.

I think that is a bit unfair St Mick, and I can only think that your wording is a little wrong.

Saying the reason we played better was cus Carragher was removed from the full back position is well wide of the mark.

A combination of Carragher being superb at centre half and Finnan being excellent at right back is more like it.

[stmichael]

jamie just doesn't have the necessary skills to be an effective fullback.

I think that is a bit unfair St Mick, and I can only think that your wording is a little wrong.

Saying the reason we played better was cus Carragher was removed from the full back position is well wide of the mark.

A combination of Carragher being superb at centre half and Finnan being excellent at right back is more like it.

in the modern era, being a fullback requires an awful lot more than just defending. carra will never let anyone down with the defensive aspect of his game but he is severely limited in other areas. he gets a nose bleed everytime he crosses the half way line.

however i agree that the result would still probably have been the same even if carra was at right back last night, even though finnan was excellent in his own right.

[Alonso_Rulz]

i personally free that the central midfield pairing of hamman and biscan is great DEFENSIVELY . althought they din supply that kind of quality passes but they protect defense well..

[lfclfclfc]

great post! a centre back pairing marshalled by carra is most desirable imo. agree that carra and finnan would be choice at center and right.

think we'd really need to benchmark against chelsea if we are targetting a quick return as a title challenger i am afraid... against bridge-terry-gallas-ferreira; backup carvalho-huth-johnson

   xxx         xxx          carra         finnan
warnock   pellegrino   hyypia        raven?

pellegrino is not a long term solution at 31, neither is hyypia. both lacks pace too.

traore is at most a squad player if he quits his ballroom dancing and gets his foot tangled up less often (he's got aerial presence and to be fair, has improved under rafa.) but dispensible really.

think riise is relishing the left mid posn and is doing well there. keep him there to vie with kewell?

we should be looking at a pacy center back and a quality left back perhaps, though i wouldn't mind seeing riise at the latter (if we are really strapped).

[stmichael]

traore is at most a squad player if he quits his ballroom dancing and gets his foot tangled up less often

   

yeah, he should knock the idea of appearing in the next series of "strictly come dancing" firmly on the head and concentrate on football.

well said

[mrcool2003]

yep i agree with everything, but st mick is right, carragher is better at central defense than right back, he should never be played there, i seen that under houllier, he should of been played centre defense, i cant believe once upon a time biscan played in the centre now that is naive, traore yep squad player at best but nothing more and if someone offers anything, we should take it

[dawson99]

i dunno,
that seasno he was left back didnt we concede less goals than anyone else?
didnt we win a shedload of trophies?
(i agree, hes a class cb but im pedantic as well)

[lfclfclfc]

caught him sneaking up to my granny to tango her the morn before burnley and i told him off... and off he went onto the pitch and tango-ed with the ball!  

[Gareth G]

I agree Carragher is at his best in the centre back role, i agree to an extent that hes not as good at right back, but hes still very solid there.

I think the reason Jamie doesnt go past the half way line is because hes so commited to defending, ive seen him up at the other box more times this season though and i must admitt, hes somewhat of a threat. How many times has he came really close or had his header or shot saved off the line?

[woof woof !]

Good post Leon , agree 100% with the sentiment but slightly disagree with the content .
Didn't think Pelligrino did anything special ,he basically hoofed the ball all night ,very occaisionally giving a short simple ball to a team mate . Not that I'm going to complain about that ,he still isn't quite up to speed with the pace of the prem but to be fair the fella's only just arrived .

Carragher has been a revelation at Centre Back ,definitely his best position , despite the quality already competing for that position in the england squad if he continues this form he could be a certain contender ,  I was one of those who always moaned about his apparent reluctance to cross the half way line when he played at right back ,Finnan is playing better in that position than Jaime ever did, and your spot on we've certainly missed Finnan.

[Redrider]

I suspect that Finnan, is now operating under the Zonal Defending instructions, which makes life simpler for him. Under the Houllier regime, Finnan had more responsibilities pushing up behind Diouff etc.