Joes wonderful wwii thread - If it wasnt for america blah blah blah

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Postby Bad Bob » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:23 am

LFC2007 wrote:Having watched a few of the Republican Presidential candidates lately, I've come to the realisation that the attitudes cited above, must be held by a fair few Americans - or else they wouldn't be so widely endorsed in the polls.

No question, mate, but, to be fair, there are many, many Americans who are quite frankly embarrassed with the way their country is run and their country is thought of abroad.  I think the way things have gone since the last election--in Iraq and in terms of the economy etc.--have opened a few more people's eyes to the current regime.  Views were soooo polarized around the time of the 2004 election but quite a few people who were hardcore Bush supporters back then have changed their tune since.  It shall be interesting to follow the election this year.
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Postby LFC2007 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:40 am

Bad Bob wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Having watched a few of the Republican Presidential candidates lately, I've come to the realisation that the attitudes cited above, must be held by a fair few Americans - or else they wouldn't be so widely endorsed in the polls.

No question, mate, but, to be fair, there are many, many Americans who are quite frankly embarrassed with the way their country is run and their country is thought of abroad.  I think the way things have gone since the last election--in Iraq and in terms of the economy etc.--have opened a few more people's eyes to the current regime.  Views were soooo polarized around the time of the 2004 election but quite a few people who were hardcore Bush supporters back then have changed their tune since.  It shall be interesting to follow the election this year.

Interesting.

I probably shouldn't generalise, as I'm sure there are many Americans who are less magniloquent and more magnanimous.

I've had a chance to see every Presidential candidate in full verse, and I can't say any of them stand out as being as smart as a whip. It just doesn't seem to be a pre-requisite to being President of the most powerful nation on earth. I try to envisage them pitched up in the House of Commons facing questions from a volatile and adversarial opposition, just as a sort of comparison to our political system, I think they'd get annihilated in this type of scenario. As much as Brown, or Blair previously, may have been incompetent or have had to bear the brunt of incompetence from within their Government, they can generally hold their own in a debate. Imagine Bush, without preparation and prompts, against Brown, also without preparation or prompts, in a debate with one another in front of an audience intent on holding them accountable - I just think Bush would get out-manoeuvred in every respect. He just isn't sharp enough. I'm aware that being sharp and on the ball shouldn't be the telling distinction between picking a Candidate for the Presidency or not, but I feel, given the power the position commands - you might think the candidates would be the best of the best in a debate and as smart as a whip, open to every avenue of thinking.

I specifically recall seeing that Republican fella Ron Paul in a debate, he looked ridiculous, I thought "How the feck is this guy any where near a position of power?" How, how, how?

Then again, Arnold fecking Schwarzenegger managed to become the Governor of the dominant economy in the whole of the U.S.
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Postby supersub » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:52 am

I always thought John Wayne and Audie Murphy won the war
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Postby burjennio » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:10 am

We all know Bush is no more than a puppet for Corporate America, and the New World Order

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Postby Roger Red Hat » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:34 am

supersub wrote:I always thought John Wayne and Audie Murphy won the war

nah mate, Arnie and Sly stallone
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Postby burjennio » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:38 am

it was Lee Marvin, Telly Savalis and Charles Beronson that won the war you fools!
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Postby burjennio » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:40 am

it was also pele, ozzy ardilles and, er, john wark
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Postby woof woof ! » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:34 pm

Without wanting to detract from the heroism and sacrifice made by members of the United States armed forces in Europe during WW2 ,for some to suggest that the "Allies could not have won without them" is nonsense. Certainly the US made a significant contribution, their biggest contribution to the allies however was in the form of "lend lease" materiel ( food and equipment and weapons) , this materiel was not freely given, in the case of the uk it took us 60 years to pay off the debt.

From a purely military perspective more than two thirds of the German armed forces were deployed on the Eastern front and in excess of 80% of all German casualties suffered in WW 2 were inflicted by the Russians . The American involvement certainly allowed a second front to be opened in Italy and Normandy and in all probability shortend the war , I say "in all probability " as at the time the western allies were landing in Normandy and marching into an undefended Rome the bulk of the German armed forces were disintergrating under massive assaults from the Soviet Red Army who were at that time driving into Romania, Hungary and Poland. Six months later the Russians paused for breath on the River Oder as they gathered themselves for the final assault on Berlin.

In truth if there was anyone "we couldn't have done it without" it was the Soviet Red Army.

Estimated Military Casualties WW 2 in Europe(main protagonists)

Russia.......... 10,700,000
Germany.........5.533,000
UK...................382,6000
USA (in Europe)..120.000

Finally the USA  never declared war on Germany and came riding to Europes aid. Four days after Pearl Harbour Germany declared war on the USA !.

ps for Sabre, 4500 Spaniards died in combat during WW2. All members of the "Blue Division" , they fought on the Eastern front,  supporting the Germans.
Last edited by woof woof ! on Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby hello_red » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:01 pm

One word: Illuminati.

Secret rulers of the world since the 1600s.
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Postby dawson99 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:54 pm

the russians are rubbish at wars arent they... how they lose so many? just not as good as the yanks is the reason.

and hello red with his illuminati and burj... with his NWO have it SPOT ON
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Postby CardinalRed » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:12 pm

You always gotta wonder if the Yanks would have bothered had it not been for the Japs trying it on? Vould Ve Haf Been Talking Like Zis?............!!!

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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:56 am

We had already been helping you out before we were attacked and one of the main reasons why we couldn't just start fighting with the Allies was that the people would have been in uproar saying we have no business going over there. There was a time in America when we thought non-intervention was a good thing, we didn't even join the league of nations after WWI.  I think one thing that helped you guys were the fact that both Wilson and FDR WANTED to get involved in the war, and looked for ways to make the public be ok with it.  To be fair, the presidents probably were also looking at ways that they could exploit the situation and improve the country's long term global standing.


In Europe, I think our biggest contribution was supplies and weapons, and although the RAF did a GREAT job at defending Britian and you guys invented those dam busters which was crucial.  A lot of long distance bombing missions were escorted by P-51 Mustangs flown by Americans.

AND our resources were split in half because we had to take care of business in the Pacific as well, they were the ones that attacked us on our soil.
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:04 am

LFC2007 wrote:I specifically recall seeing that Republican fella Ron Paul in a debate, he looked ridiculous, I thought "How the feck is this guy any where near a position of power?" How, how, how?

Yes, Ron Paul is not a very good debater, but WHY SHOULD THAT MATTER?!?!

He is not trying out for the debate team, he is currently a Congressman and trying to be the president.  His view for America is what is important, and his is VERY unique and one that I have taken a liking to.

positions

His is a champion of our constitution and wants us to become a humble nation once again, and NOT the "police of the world"  He is also a BIIIIG supporter of civil liberties, which is very important to me.
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Postby Kharhaz » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:04 am

What does it matter? Rememberance day brings it home to everyone what was fought for, what lives were lost. You will always get the shallow comments with no reasoning behind them. These comments are made by shallow people. All the people who died, even the many germans who didnt want to be a part of the war, all have legacies. So many stories, so many twists and turns. I look at the heroes who fought for our country, and that would include all our allies. And im proud of them. ALL of them.
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:10 am

JoeTerp wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I specifically recall seeing that Republican fella Ron Paul in a debate, he looked ridiculous, I thought "How the feck is this guy any where near a position of power?" How, how, how?

Yes, Ron Paul is not a very good debater, but WHY SHOULD THAT MATTER?!?!

He is not trying out for the debate team, he is currently a Congressman and trying to be the president.  His view for America is what is important, and his is VERY unique and one that I have taken a liking to.

positions

His is a champion of our constitution and wants us to become a humble nation once again, and NOT the "police of the world"  He is also a BIIIIG supporter of civil liberties, which is very important to me.

Well, like I said;  "I'm aware that being sharp and on the ball shouldn't be the telling distinction between picking a Candidate for the Presidency or not, but I feel, given the power the position commands - you might think the candidates would be the best of the best in a debate and as smart as a whip".


I don't want to get into specifics, as you've clearly got your own views, and your ear closer to the ground on this one. I'm going by my own judgement, and I just don't see qualities in him that fit the bill, given the size of the job.
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