Liverpool FC Forum

by **drummerphil** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 pm

Its saying all over the news channels that because Gerrards on a booking and Sven the non tactical man dosnt want to risk him,incase he picks up another thus losing him in the next round that Owen Hargreaves will replace Gerrard.
Why the feck Hargreaves surely its time to play Carrick,and change the system slightly.Owen Hargreaves i wouldnt have any where near anyside.........39 caps and what the feck has he ever offered.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:55 pm

i read an interesting article about hargreaves being booed, and the writer asked people to remember that hargreaves generally comes on as a sub, and when he comes on he has specific instructions to play defensively, this gives the impression that he is a negative player when he is in fact just following instructions.

i agree though that carrick would be the best choice. its also funny to see that they are prepared to play lampard even though he is on a booking which leads me to believe that he may not be as important as gerrard come the knockout stage. it would appear from this that sven may at last be prepared to drop lampard in favour of playing a defensive midfielder and giving gerrard free range

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:24 pm

I thought all yellows were wiped after the knockout stage thats ridiculous !!! Knowing how some of these refs dish out cards like confetti. You'd think it would be at least three yellows cards if it carries over to the knockout stages. :no

As for Hargreaves being a possible replacement for Stevie itjust highlights the fact that England dont have the squad (in midfield) to compete with the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Italy etc.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:50 pm

Bamaga man wrote:I thought all yellows were wiped after the knockout stage thats ridiculous !!! Knowing how some of these refs dish out cards like confetti. You'd think it would be at least three yellows cards if it carries over to the knockout stages.

All yellows are wiped out after the knockout stage but a 1-game suspension will carry over into the next round if a second yellow is picked up in the last match of the group stages.

Agreed though, a suspension for 2 yellows seems a bit harsh given that there is a significant disparity amongst WC officials about what constitutes a bookable offence.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:53 pm

I'm amazed Hargreaves seems to be the man to get the nod ahead of Carrick. I'm a big fan of Carrick and i figured Sven was too but unfortunately one poor performance in the England B game when he was stuck playing with Jenas in the middle seems to have convinced Sven he isn't up to it.

As for Gerrard i must admit it makes some sense to rest him. He is far more likely (than Lampard) to pick up another Yellow given the defensive work he gets through. I wouldn't be too bothered if Lampard picked up a booking in the next game because at least we could see England's best player doing what he does best.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:59 pm

peewee wrote:Its also funny to see that they are prepared to play lampard even though he is on a booking which leads me to believe that he may not be as important as gerrard come the knockout stage. it would appear from this that sven may at last be prepared to drop lampard in favour of playing a defensive midfielder and giving gerrard free range

This is an interesting situation. It's a tacit admission by Sven that Gerrard is more indispensible than Lampard in the knockout stages. Sven, of course, will chalk it up to not wanting to take the Swedes too lightly by dropping his two starting central midfielders or some such but that'll just be a smokescreen. Knowing Lampard he'll go even lighter on his defensive duties to avoid a second booking and merely ghost through the game.

I wouldn't necessarily read into it that Lampard will not be in Sven's plans for the knockout stages, though. Sven will probably hope Lampard gets through unscathed so it can be business as usual in the middle of the park. After all, he's already got a selection problem up front. It would tax his tactical skills too much to have to address the striker problem and the midfield problem.

by **TheoRacle** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:07 am

It will be interesting to see how Hargreaves plays given a rare start and hopefuilly (for him) a full 90 minutes.

I wonder if much of the criticsm he recieves is down to us (or me at least) just not seeing a lot of him.. Apparently Beckenbauer rates him highly and he does have quite a CV goning for him...

With 24 years of age Owen has achieved considerable successes with Bayern and the national team. With Bayern Owen has won three German Championships, twice the German (DFB) Cup, the League Cup, the Champions League and the World Club title. He played for England at the 2002 World Cup in Japan and South Korea.

and all that's in just 5 years. Give the lad a chance I say.

by **drummerphil** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:37 am

sorry but when i think of hargreaves (39 caps) i cant think of one player apart from Phil Neville who he reminds me of.Both players fecking out of their depth in the national set up.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:41 am

drummerphil wrote:sorry but when i think of hargreaves (39 caps) i cant think of one player apart from Phil Neville who he reminds me of.Both players fecking out of their depth in the national set up.

phil i understand 100% what you are saying mate, a phrase you will never hear is "oh briiliant Hargreaves is playing, i am looking forward to this game now".

but also i struggle to find any current england international who i can say that about with the negative football we play. i hate the way players are picked because of what the do at club level only for them not to be allowed to perform the same way at international level. to be honest i really dont enjoy watching england and i havent done for a number of years, most of the time i tune in to see the liverpool players and pray that they do something special to relieve the tedium

by **tommycockles** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 am

Peewee- i have to agree with you. i have been known to hold my head in despair on seeing hargeaves coming on a as a sub but if you think about it- he's a first team choice for his club- who not only win their league continually, but have also won old Big Ears as well.

Like you say- he's brought on under Svens orders which doesn't exactly give him a chance to shine. Look at the way Gerrard's been critisized for not reproducing his club form- even Fat Franks looked pretty :censored:

so far (but nothing new there!!

). Fingers crossed he proves us all wrong by getting a starting role- but under Svens tactics i'd be very surprised! Either way, whatever my feelings he doesn't deserve booing as how's that going to help his confidence.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:44 am

yeah tommy but was it actually hargreaves being booed or was it the decision being booed knowing that it will now be defensive football.

i feel sorry for the guy and to be honest he doesnt do that much wrong or make many mistakes, he just does what hes instructed to do. i could understand booing if he let england down with mistakes but he doesnt

by **2520years** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:03 pm

I'm viewing this positively Phil. It's Hargreaves chance to start a game in his optimum position. If he does well everyone will be happy (and relieved), if he fails then hopefully Sven and McLaren will take note.

It's not the most important game we'll play this month, but it would've ideal if Sven would've done this in the run-up to the tournament. In his defence his possible first options are Carra and King...Carra is standing in at right-back and Ledley King didn't make it due to injury.

I'm not always in agreement with Sven, by any means, but I think he's nearly picked the team I would've picked, if the media reports are accurate. Personally I'd prefer Carrick or Rio as the holding midfielder, but I've hardly seen the best of Hargreaves so I'm not in a great position to disagree with Sven on this point.

by **GOAT** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Yeah i dont see what hargreaves has ever given to the team yet he has been capped time after time

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:24 am

Sven seems to have a policy of protecting his big name favourites from media attacks by picking unpopular/novice replacements. I.E. Beckham -SWP was pushed as a replacement so drop him from squad and bring in Lennon(novice) Rooney/ Owen - Crouch was very unpopular choice at the time and Walcott another novice. Lampard/Gerrard - Hargreaves another unpopular player or Jenas a novice. Carrick was gaining support so dont give him a chance.Neville - Carragher or Hargreaves, not their specialist position. This policy enables Sven to pick his team with virtually no media criticism, bring favourite players back from injury or suspension etc without much outcry about retaining their replacement.I.E. Who in the media will argue about replacing Hargreaves with Gerrard no matter how well Hargreaves plays against Sweden or that Crouch should regain his place at the expense of Rooney?

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:55 am

s@int wrote:Sven seems to have a policy of protecting his big name favourites from media attacks by picking unpopular/novice replacements. I.E. Beckham -SWP was pushed as a replacement so drop him from squad and bring in Lennon(novice) Rooney/ Owen - Crouch was very unpopular choice at the time and Walcott another novice. Lampard/Gerrard - Hargreaves another unpopular player or Jenas a novice. Carrick was gaining support so dont give him a chance.Neville - Carragher or Hargreaves, not their specialist position. This policy enables Sven to pick his team with virtually no media criticism, bring favourite players back from injury or suspension etc without much outcry about retaining their replacement.I.E. Who in the media will argue about replacing Hargreaves with Gerrard no matter how well Hargreaves plays against Sweden or that Crouch should regain his place at the expense of Rooney?

Some people would say Sven picks a team based from media pressure. i.e Pick Carrick not hargreaves.

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