Liverpool FC Forum

by **Big Niall** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:50 pm

Just watching Jimmy Carr programme and it claims that the public voted Gazza the best England player ever and Beckham number 2. While I understand Gazza being a contender I think only somebody that knows nothing about football (except for ok magazine) would vote for a winger who hasn't scored a goal from open play for England that I can remember.

Surely, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton and Stanley Mathews are the top 3 in any particular order?

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:59 pm

Nowadays its hype that builds a player up hence the reason why beckham got second. There have been so many great players to have played for england, Linekar, Waddle, Hoddle, Keegan, Beardsley, Barnes, Moore, Charlton (Bobby), Banks, Hunt, Greaves. To pick one single best player is impossible.

by **Dundalk** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:06 pm

Geoff Thomas

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:09 pm

Dundalk wrote:Geoff Thomas

Closely followed by Neil Ruddock ! :buttrock

by **Owzat** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:17 pm

Big Niall wrote:Just watching Jimmy Carr programme and it claims that the public voted Gazza the best England player ever and Beckham number 2. While I understand Gazza being a contender I think only somebody that knows nothing about football (except for ok magazine) would vote for a winger who hasn't scored a goal from open play for England that I can remember.

Surely, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton and Stanley Mathews are the top 3 in any particular order?

Add to that Banks and probably lots more

But as Kharhaz says about the hype, basically the recency effect is increased exponentially by the media hype. I can't believe the population is so stupid to believe everything they are told like the game is getting better all the time, players are better, etc etc.

Sadly I've noted that the classic team on PES has gone down a similar road, England comprising a lot of ordinary players from the last 20 years and few greats. I mean Ian Wright ffs

CLASSIC ENGLAND

1 David SEAMAN - maybe
5 Tony ADAMS - maybe
6 Gareth SOUTHGATE - no way jose
18 Martin KEOWN - no way jose
2 Stuart PEARCE - maybe
4 Paul INCE - no way jose
23 Dennis WISE - no way jose
11 Steve MCMANAMAN - no way jose
8 Paul GASCOIGNE - probably
21 Ian WRIGHT - no way jose
9 Alan SHEARER - maybe
13 Nigel MARTYN - no way jose
3 Graeme LE SAUX - no way jose
17 Jaime REDKNAPP - no way jose
7 Darren ANDERTON - no way sicknote
16 Glenn HODDLE - maybe
12 David PLATT - outside chance
15 Paul MERSON - no way jose
10 Teddy SHERINGHAM - maybe
14 John BARNES - not for England. Liverpool yes
22 Chris WADDLE - no way jose
19 Les FERDINAND - no way jose, juan, pedro, carlos
20 Andy COLE - no way jose

It's feeble. That should include players like Banks, both Charltons, Hunt, Moore, Stiles, Ball, Matthews, Stepney, Greaves, Blanchflower, maybe Lineker etc from more recent times, but not that load of nothing that noone would tip to win any tournament if they were all available for it. Might as well put Crouch and Heskey in it with some of those names. I mean LES F IN FERDINAND!?!?

Problem is the media/papers have a hard time selling a product if noone has heard of it. But the more they sell the product they have, the less people will know who the TRUE legends are/were. Beckham is more high profile than players 100x better than him

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:47 pm

That's easy and not a bit of bias Roger Hunt

by **Big Niall** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:21 pm

Owzat wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Just watching Jimmy Carr programme and it claims that the public voted Gazza the best England player ever and Beckham number 2. While I understand Gazza being a contender I think only somebody that knows nothing about football (except for ok magazine) would vote for a winger who hasn't scored a goal from open play for England that I can remember.

Surely, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton and Stanley Mathews are the top 3 in any particular order?

Add to that Banks and probably lots more

But as Kharhaz says about the hype, basically the recency effect is increased exponentially by the media hype. I can't believe the population is so stupid to believe everything they are told like the game is getting better all the time, players are better, etc etc.

Sadly I've noted that the classic team on PES has gone down a similar road, England comprising a lot of ordinary players from the last 20 years and few greats. I mean Ian Wright ffs

CLASSIC ENGLAND

1 David SEAMAN - maybe
5 Tony ADAMS - maybe
6 Gareth SOUTHGATE - no way jose
18 Martin KEOWN - no way jose
2 Stuart PEARCE - maybe
4 Paul INCE - no way jose
23 Dennis WISE - no way jose
11 Steve MCMANAMAN - no way jose
8 Paul GASCOIGNE - probably
21 Ian WRIGHT - no way jose
9 Alan SHEARER - maybe
13 Nigel MARTYN - no way jose
3 Graeme LE SAUX - no way jose
17 Jaime REDKNAPP - no way jose
7 Darren ANDERTON - no way sicknote
16 Glenn HODDLE - maybe
12 David PLATT - outside chance
15 Paul MERSON - no way jose
10 Teddy SHERINGHAM - maybe
14 John BARNES - not for England. Liverpool yes
22 Chris WADDLE - no way jose
19 Les FERDINAND - no way jose, juan, pedro, carlos
20 Andy COLE - no way jose

It's feeble. That should include players like Banks, both Charltons, Hunt, Moore, Stiles, Ball, Matthews, Stepney, Greaves, Blanchflower, maybe Lineker etc from more recent times, but not that load of nothing that noone would tip to win any tournament if they were all available for it. Might as well put Crouch and Heskey in it with some of those names. I mean LES F IN FERDINAND!?!?

Problem is the media/papers have a hard time selling a product if noone has heard of it. But the more they sell the product they have, the less people will know who the TRUE legends are/were. Beckham is more high profile than players 100x better than him

Every one of thos played in the premiership (I think Hoddle played for Swindon). Didn't Rupert Murdoch invent football in 1993?

by **Owzat** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:25 pm

Big Niall wrote:Every one of thos played in the premiership (I think Hoddle played for Swindon). Didn't Rupert Murdoch invent football in 1993?

Nope, he reinvented football in 1993 - or more accurately remarketed it

by **rocky29** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:06 pm

nobodies mentioned phil neville? :laugh:

by **Reg** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:19 pm

Line-acre, Moore, Clemence or Shilton in my lifetime. Even Phil 'Zico' Neal (50 caps) should be up there before most of the other guys mentioned.

Most capped players:

Most capped players
# Name Career Caps Goals
1 Peter Shilton 1970–1990 125 0
2 David Beckham 1996– 0000 115 17
3 Bobby Moore 1962–1973 108 2
4 Bobby Charlton 1958–1970 106 49
5 Billy Wright 1946–1959 105 3
6 Bryan Robson 1980–1991 90 26
7 Michael Owen 1998– 0000 89 40
8 Kenny Sansom 1979–1988 86 1
9 Gary Neville 1995– 0000 85 0
10 Ray Wilkins 1976–1986 84 3

by **Yossi_Benaloon** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:53 am

I would have Shilton as the greatest ever England player, or at least Charlton or Moore - not Gazza, Beckham or any player who has played since 1990. I cant see any players representing England at World Cup 2010 getting anywhere near a 'Greatest Ever' poll in the near future unless they really step up.

by **Big Niall** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:26 pm

As England have never ever beaten any team from europe or south america in the QF of the world cup, on foreign soil, doesn't it suggest hype?

Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, possibly Stanley Mathews, Maybe Gazza, Shilton, Banks, were all world class. Many others are "maybe's"

But Beckham is the Anna Kournikova of football, fairly useless but good looking and craves publicity (why is he at the world cup?).

Current players are hype, most European players are nothing special.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:19 am

Big Niall wrote:Current players are hype, most European players are nothing special.

Funny isn't it how all these "hype" players are regulars for the best teams in England. Teams that dominated the Champions League for the past however many years. And as for European players, are Torres and Villa "nothing special"?, are Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Fabregas, Casillas, Reina, all "nothing special"? Are Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben, Robin Van Persie all "nothing special?". Guess who I think IS special?

by **Big Niall** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:34 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Current players are hype, most European players are nothing special.

Funny isn't it how all these "hype" players are regulars for the best teams in England. Teams that dominated the Champions League for the past however many years. And as for European players, are Torres and Villa "nothing special"?, are Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Fabregas, Casillas, Reina, all "nothing special"? Are Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben, Robin Van Persie all "nothing special?". Guess who I think IS special?

Okay - Spain are an exception, I tipped them as contenders before the tournament.

While there is the rare talent outside of Spain in Europe, as a whole, they are poor. Don't believe the hype. Just because modern day footballers are famous and paid a lot of money doesn't make them top players.

by **Judge** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:02 pm

Big Niall wrote:Gazza hasn't scored a goal from open play for England that I can remember.

did u not see his great goal against the scots in euro 96

he befuddled the scotch defence with marvellous skill and drilled the ball home

one of the best goals i have seen

then laid on the floor while the lads squirted water in his gob from those blue bottles

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