Liverpool FC Forum

john craig wrote:

john craig wrote:France very good?  More like Spain choked.  Still, France were better than they have been recently and they were a lot better at winning and retaining possession in midfield.  But there is still very little creativity and a lack of penetration up front - I'm still scratching my head wondering how in fact they chalked up 3 goals tonight.  Best I've seen Zidane play in a while and Ribery was good, but Vieira and Henry are still playing sh.it and Malouda is a passenger.

Above are my views on the France-Spain game just after it was played, and to be honest if you substituted 'Brazil' for 'Spain' in that post my opinion is pretty much the same.

Brazil did not perform last night and it is hardly an exaggeration to say that Ronaldinho and Kaka were almost passengers and didn't influence the game at all.  Brazil lost it in midfield because they didn't have enough players in there willing to fight for the ball.  In fact if Makelele was in a Brazil rather than a France shirt last night I believe they would have won the game comfortably.  But they have nobody of that class holding the midfield.

For France I still maintain that Vieira and Henry (despite the goal) are not performing anywhere near as well as they have done for their club sides in the past.  Once again, like the Spain game, it was left to Zidane and Ribery to do the damage, and what a masterclass Zidane put on, he was a joy to watch.  I'll admit to being one of those that thought he was finished before this tournament started, but how wrong I was.  He's playing every game as if it was his last now and looks to have rediscovered the hunger that had deserted him.  But again, like the Spain game, Malouda was a passenger.  This France team isn't fit to lace the boots of the '98 or '00 teams, but with a bit of momentum behind them, they will be tough to knock out now.

Big Niall wrote:I cannot believe that is the same French team which over 12 qualifying games were barely better than a rubbish Ireland, Switzerland and even Israel.

Time to eat my words.

     

Judge wrote:

Big Niall wrote:I cannot believe that is the same French team which over 12 qualifying games were barely better than a rubbish Ireland, Switzerland and even Israel.

Time to eat my words.

     

You and many others judge no one really fancied France

john craig wrote:

coolsobs wrote:

john craig wrote:

john craig wrote:France very good?  More like Spain choked.  Still, France were better than they have been recently and they were a lot better at winning and retaining possession in midfield.  But there is still very little creativity and a lack of penetration up front - I'm still scratching my head wondering how in fact they chalked up 3 goals tonight.  Best I've seen Zidane play in a while and Ribery was good, but Vieira and Henry are still playing sh.it and Malouda is a passenger.

Above are my views on the France-Spain game just after it was played, and to be honest if you substituted 'Brazil' for 'Spain' in that post my opinion is pretty much the same.

Brazil did not perform last night and it is hardly an exaggeration to say that Ronaldinho and Kaka were almost passengers and didn't influence the game at all.  Brazil lost it in midfield because they didn't have enough players in there willing to fight for the ball.  In fact if Makelele was in a Brazil rather than a France shirt last night I believe they would have won the game comfortably.  But they have nobody of that class holding the midfield.

For France I still maintain that Vieira and Henry (despite the goal) are not performing anywhere near as well as they have done for their club sides in the past.  Once again, like the Spain game, it was left to Zidane and Ribery to do the damage, and what a masterclass Zidane put on, he was a joy to watch.  I'll admit to being one of those that thought he was finished before this tournament started, but how wrong I was.  He's playing every game as if it was his last now and looks to have rediscovered the hunger that had deserted him.  But again, like the Spain game, Malouda was a passenger.  This France team isn't fit to lace the boots of the '98 or '00 teams, but with a bit of momentum behind them, they will be tough to knock out now.

how can you say viera wasn't as good as plays for his club, if anything he was better gainst brazil, both defensively and especially attacking.
I agree about malouda, he is probably the only player who "isn't fit to lace the boots of the '98 or '00 teams". However the rest of them are surely good enough.

I can't believe it when people form an opinion of a side based on one or two decent performances.  Vieira has been pi.ss poor for France for about the last 2 years.  He was awful in the qualifying campaign (as an Irish fan I took a lot of interest in France matches as they were in our group) and just as bad in the group stages of the world cup.  He improved against Spain and Brazil, but is still not playing at the level he did for Arsenal 2 years ago.  He was inconsistent in his last season for Arsenal to the point where Wenger didn't put up a huge fight to keep him at the club, and the feeling in Juventus is that he could be sold this summer after an indiferent campaign.  Vieira was a class player and still is a very good player, but let's not blow things out of proportion on the back of 2 improved performances.

And I stand by what I said about this side being nowhere near as good as the French side of '98/'00.

Barthez of 8 years ago was a better player than he is now before a confidence sapping move to United.  Thuram was the best right back in the world back then, Sagnol is not in the same class.  Lizarazu, along with Carlos, was the best left back in the world in '98/'00, Abidal is nowhere near that level.  Desailly was the best centre back at the world cup in '98 and Blanc was at the top of his game, Thuram is solid but ageing and Gallas is excellent, but no Desailly.  Deschamps and Petit of '98 are probably as good as Makelele/Vieira are now.  Pires/Henry/Trezeguet was much more formidable than Ribery/Henry/Malouda at this world cup and although Zidane has turned it on for the last 2 games, he was simply the best player in the world between '98 and '00.  Maybe 'not fit to lace their boots' was a harsh term, but the current French team will not go down in history, the French team of '98/'00 will be remembered as their greatest of all time.

LFC #1 wrote:Agree 100%, although Pires didn't play that big a part in that team until Euro 2000. Youri Djorkaeff and Karembeu were  key performers in '98.

The only player in 98' who was a perplexing selection to me was Guivarc'h, especially when Dugarry and Henry were on the bench.

How did I manage to miss out Djorkaeff?
What a player he was in his prime.  In '98 I seem to remember Pires, Henry, Karembeu and... wait for it... Diomede being rotated quite a lot for the wide positions, rather than any of them being first choice?  Might need to check that one out.

Guivarch was awful though    It was only by '00 that Henry and Trezeguet had developed into top class centre forwards at club level, so arguably the '00 French side was even stronger than the '98 one.  Although players like Desailly, Deschamps etc hit their absolute peak in '98.