Liverpool FC Forum

Ace Ventura wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:I can see Ferdinand has all the ability in the world, but to blame his failings as a player on 2 of the top rated managers in world football is wrong imo. Eriksson you might get away with that one because alot of people are suggesting he isn't up to the England job, but Ferguson is a great manager, and its not his fault if players dont have the same passion and will to win as he does.
I think the point you made about his concentration going when united are dominating a match was probably right.
But at the end of the day playing for Manchester united thats going to happen in the majority of matches.
I agree that he is blessed with a great deal of talent and if we were to show little 5 minutes clips of both him and Carragher then everyone would pick Rio over Jamie.
I appreciate the fact you can see Carragher is irreplaceable to Liverpool, i dont think you could say the same about Rio with united.
I also dont think that Rio has ever played in a side where the defence is nigh on impregnable, thats got to be partly down to the player.
I do accept the fact that we get an extra 10-20% from Jamie due to his love of the club and the fans, but i still think he could be a rock for England also given a run of a couple of games alongside Terry.
He hasn't had that and anyone who knows there football knows central defenders rely on partnerships.
I dont claim to be an expert but i do think i've called this right.
I want a centre half to be 100% committed into every tackle to be totally focused for 90 minutes, i dont really care if he can bring the ball out and dribble past 2 players, cos first and foremost his job is to defend.
That type of player is Carragher or Terry...not Ferdinand but thats just my opinion.

You state his failings aren't down to national managers and Ferguson. What i'll say to you on that front is O'Leary paid 18million for him, Ferguson paid 30million for him, Sven has him as first choice and other mangers before him picked him in there squads as first choice, do you think they'd pay that money and pick him so regularly even when his forms been poor if his ability level wasn't upto it?

I hate using that arguement, its weak and pathetic to be honest.

I'm using that as an example though that people other than myself see a world class player, yet hardly anyone can get the best out of him.

JBG i think you're comment on his positioning is well off the mark. He's oustanding in that area but playing next to Silvestre, Neville and Brown doesn't do him any justice at all. Remember Hyypia when playing next to Biscan and Traore, how badly did he struggle?

Sometimes players get picked because of reputation and the club they play for. Heskey while he was at Anfield was an England regular and now doesn't get a look in.
I am not saying Rio is not a good player, but he is over rated, i would not be comfortable if he was playing for LFC no matter how much talent he has, a mistake is always just around the corner.
I think too many people are conned by Rio, imo he lacks bottle and concentration, and whether he is picked for England or not doesn't bother me.
It was the argument about Fowler with 7_kewell were you said that because others dont rate him was p@ss poor.
Although you do usually offer your own opinion and reasoning you have just offered the same they rate him so he's obviously class point.
Which i'm sure you'd agree is poor.

To be honest, that was a come back at something you said. I have lots of opinions and examples of this, i'll go through it in detail after work if you want me to. I have an appointment at 7 o'clock though and need to get ready so there you go.

stu_the_red wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:I can see Ferdinand has all the ability in the world, but to blame his failings as a player on 2 of the top rated managers in world football is wrong imo. Eriksson you might get away with that one because alot of people are suggesting he isn't up to the England job, but Ferguson is a great manager, and its not his fault if players dont have the same passion and will to win as he does.
I think the point you made about his concentration going when united are dominating a match was probably right.
But at the end of the day playing for Manchester united thats going to happen in the majority of matches.
I agree that he is blessed with a great deal of talent and if we were to show little 5 minutes clips of both him and Carragher then everyone would pick Rio over Jamie.
I appreciate the fact you can see Carragher is irreplaceable to Liverpool, i dont think you could say the same about Rio with united.
I also dont think that Rio has ever played in a side where the defence is nigh on impregnable, thats got to be partly down to the player.
I do accept the fact that we get an extra 10-20% from Jamie due to his love of the club and the fans, but i still think he could be a rock for England also given a run of a couple of games alongside Terry.
He hasn't had that and anyone who knows there football knows central defenders rely on partnerships.
I dont claim to be an expert but i do think i've called this right.
I want a centre half to be 100% committed into every tackle to be totally focused for 90 minutes, i dont really care if he can bring the ball out and dribble past 2 players, cos first and foremost his job is to defend.
That type of player is Carragher or Terry...not Ferdinand but thats just my opinion.

You state his failings aren't down to national managers and Ferguson. What i'll say to you on that front is O'Leary paid 18million for him, Ferguson paid 30million for him, Sven has him as first choice and other mangers before him picked him in there squads as first choice, do you think they'd pay that money and pick him so regularly even when his forms been poor if his ability level wasn't upto it?

I hate using that arguement, its weak and pathetic to be honest.

I'm using that as an example though that people other than myself see a world class player, yet hardly anyone can get the best out of him.

JBG i think you're comment on his positioning is well off the mark. He's oustanding in that area but playing next to Silvestre, Neville and Brown doesn't do him any justice at all. Remember Hyypia when playing next to Biscan and Traore, how badly did he struggle?

Sometimes players get picked because of reputation and the club they play for. Heskey while he was at Anfield was an England regular and now doesn't get a look in.
I am not saying Rio is not a good player, but he is over rated, i would not be comfortable if he was playing for LFC no matter how much talent he has, a mistake is always just around the corner.
I think too many people are conned by Rio, imo he lacks bottle and concentration, and whether he is picked for England or not doesn't bother me.
It was the argument about Fowler with 7_kewell were you said that because others dont rate him was p@ss poor.
Although you do usually offer your own opinion and reasoning you have just offered the same they rate him so he's obviously class point.
Which i'm sure you'd agree is poor.

To be honest, that was a come back at something you said. I have lots of opinions and examples of this, i'll go through it in detail after work if you want me to. I have an appointment at 7 o'clock though and need to get ready so there you go.

I was surprised by the reply earlier.
It was un-stu-like
Will look forward to hearing your reasons later.

stu_the_red wrote:arguementative and clueless,

No mate thats the missus

stu_the_red wrote:JBG i think you're comment on his positioning is well off the mark. He's oustanding in that area but playing next to Silvestre, Neville and Brown doesn't do him any justice at all. Remember Hyypia when playing next to Biscan and Traore, how badly did he struggle?

Benfica's first goal at the Stadium of Light is one example off the top of my head. All of the UTD defence were at fault (amazingly so, John O' Shea let the cross go through his legs, Silvestre and Ferdinand failed to deal with the cross when it came into the box and Gary Neville lost his man who ghosted in between him and Ferdinand to score  ).

Also, remember Pederson's long range free kick/cross for Blackburn at Old Trafford?

I don't rate Ferdinand, simple as that. Some of the best players I have ever seen had plenty of character, very little Ferdinand as a footballer has.

I'd honestly have Carragher ahead of him any day of the week. There are often more important things to a team than ability, character, leadership and personality are also hugely important.

stmichael wrote:Ferdinand is completely overrated. What happened to the guy who was possibly England's best and most gifted defender not so long ago? All seems to have gone to his head and now he's more interested in fancy hairstyles and picking up as much money as possible, while our real best defenders (Carragher, Terry, etc.) just get their heads down, work hard and give their teams 100% week in week out. Give me a defender like that every time. The money that Ferdinand is reportedly on is a slap in the face to all manure fans when you consider what they get in return.

Igor Zidane wrote:One of my many memories of the CL final was when carra went down with cramp in both legs and immediatly when he came back on he had to throw himself to block a chance on goal,he then struggles to his feet yet again to defend the resulting corner.Again abit later he put in an amazing tackle on shevchenko i think to stop his attempt on goal. Now i think there are other defenders out there who are technicaly better but i wouldn't honestly swap him for anyone.

Spot on.

Igor Zidane wrote:One of my many memories of the CL final was when carra went down with cramp in both legs and immediatly when he came back on he had to throw himself to block a chance on goal,he then struggles to his feet yet again to defend the resulting corner.Again abit later he put in an amazing tackle on shevchenko i think to stop his attempt on goal. Now i think there are other defenders out there who are technicaly better but i wouldn't honestly swap him for anyone.

Well said there mate!!
I defy any true football fan who could watch that performance and not feel admiration for our Jamie in that game,especially in the later stages when he was feeling the pain of his brave efforts!
Every time i see that i feel a lump in my throat!
Let's face it as i've said before Carra makes up for his lack of technical ability tenfold with effort,passion and hard work!Money cannot buy the spirit the man shows when he pulls on the red jersey...I just wish we had more like him!
We could pay any amount of money for a defender but i struggle to think of any player worldwide who could give us what he does.
At times it's refreshing to see that in the world of football where money rules and will slowly become the boss of our sport there are still players like him who will gladly sweat blood for the cause!
I love him.....but not in a gay way Judge if you are reading!

KING CARRA