Liverpool FC Forum

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:Leon writes some of the best posts and from the heart on here, keep it up lad.

the pair of you do 

Leonmc0708 wrote:Stu I am afraid that there are a few things clouding your judgement on this one mate:

1)     You do not give Carra enough credit for what he has improved in his game. He was undoubtedly "doing a job" when he played full back over the last 6/7 years, but he was replaceable at any time. Any better left back or right back that came in would have displaced him. Carra started life as a striker, both for "The Saltbox" sunday league and whilst playing for Savio (his high/secondary school). He adapted from a great goalscorer ( I played against him once when he scored 8 and only had 6 chances!!) to play centre midfield for Liverpool, and gain England honours and a record for most caps (often as captain) in the middle of the park for the U21's. When asked to play at full back for Liverpool, Carragher did so both because of his willingness as a team player, and his willingness to learn. At first he was not the best, but he undoubtedly improved to such an extent that he kept recognised full backs, (Finnan and Riise) out of the side. When asked to move into the centre by Rafa (who recognised his improvement as a player over the years as well as his leadership qualities), the years of hard graft and picking up all the understanding of the game from playing in almost every position means he is now one of the best centre halves in the country, in fact top three. Although he may not look as commanding and powerful as Terry in full flight, score as many goals as Campbell or he may not have the all too often dodgy but nonetheless graceful skills of Ferdinand, he is a better all round player than the latter two.

2)     Your constant need to come across as "the all knowing all seeing" oracle of football Stu means that you will never listen to the view of another, and if one such view proves to be right, then you question their age, skill level, background and previous football involvement to poo poo the suggestion. This poll in itself is a chance for you to do exactly that, and as such I have not voted.

In conclusion, I decline to vote in the poll, but simply ask you this:

"Who does not rate Jamie Carragher  ?"

What i'm on about is footballing ability though Leon and your need to be sarcastic seems to help you miss the point. Yes Carragher has has learnt to read the game better, become more determined and a better leader. However he's always had these qualities. When playing a full back he marked wingers (world class ones) out of games. The likes of Kewell, Beckham, Giggs, Robert etc. None of them got the better of him. If you compare individual abilities he has to other players you'd see he's not the player he's made out to be by some people.

What you also fail to acknowledge in your post is that Carragher spend a large part of his career under Evan's management as Roy's main centre half. Infact i'd go as far to say as he was the only premiership class player in that backline. Playing next to the likes of Kvarme, Babb and Matteo didn't help him then, it has however in my opinion made him more appriciative of what he has around him and helped him to read the game better as he was constantly sweeping up there mistakes.

To say he's better alround than the likes of Ferdinand is simply incorrect. Ferdinand is an excellent alround player. As a footballer he's outstanding, what he lacks is manager who can get the best out of him both at club and international level. Ferdinand doesn't have Carragher's heart, tackling ability or aggression, he is however better in the air, quicker and far superior technically aswell as being outstanding tactically.

However Carragher is played in a system that suits him perfectly, the people around him compliment his abilities perfectly. I've never once said he's not an excellent player, i've said that since he first came through, i've ALWAYS liked Jamie Carragher and always will because of what he gives to the club. The system doesn't require him to be an olympic sprinter, it doesn't require him to be dominant in the air and it doesn't require him to bring the ball out from the back. It simply requires him to read anything Hyypia, Finnan or Riise miss. He's effectively a sweeper.

He's a similar player to William Gallas only not in the same class. Gallas has practically everything on Carragher expect leadership.

As for you wanting to have a pop at me, well at least i come on here and talk football. The only posts you make these days are moaning about threads being started or being sarcastic towards another member. You don't have in you to come on here and talk purely about football so you can shove your judgements of people and arse kissing with certain members where the sun doesn't shine.

seani.g wrote:Your constant need to come across as "the all knowing all seeing" oracle of football Stu means that you will never listen to the view of another, and if one such view proves to be right, then you question their age, skill level, background and previous football involvement to poo poo the suggestion. This poll in itself is a chance for you to do exactly that, and as such I have not voted.


I hope I've quoted this right! Very well put Leon. Not been here long but already can agree with you!
For me world class means picking a world 11 and being in the team or knocking on the door. Top class means being in the national team of a good country where there is good competition for places. JC is unlucky to be competing with the likes of Terry, Ferdinand and Campbell so I put him in this bracket along with my bias for everyone Red!
Football is a simple game and I like to keep the analysis simple because otherwise it can come across as a load of bow locks:p

el_stinger wrote:I rate him as world class, and I'll tell you why...


For quite some time now, I feel that Carra has overtaken Ferdinand, and should rightly bee given the nod ahead of him. Ferdinand for England and Club has been overrated, and he hasnt been able to find a balance that suits him. He was terrible in the last hitout for England, and hasn't shown much this season for Man Ure. He has been terribly inconsistant and hesitates on the ball, which is a no no for a CB.

Carra has proved all his critics wrong, by being consistant, improving, and in adapting new aspects to his game. He has taken on some of the best strikers in the world, particularly last year, against Pavel, Sheva, Crespo, Ibrahimovic, amongst others. I'm sure that if he is given his deserved chance at an International level, especially at this years Copa Mundial, he will shine, and show his true, world class ability.

stu_the_red wrote:

el_stinger wrote:I rate him as world class, and I'll tell you why...


For quite some time now, I feel that Carra has overtaken Ferdinand, and should rightly bee given the nod ahead of him. Ferdinand for England and Club has been overrated, and he hasnt been able to find a balance that suits him. He was terrible in the last hitout for England, and hasn't shown much this season for Man Ure. He has been terribly inconsistant and hesitates on the ball, which is a no no for a CB.

Carra has proved all his critics wrong, by being consistant, improving, and in adapting new aspects to his game. He has taken on some of the best strikers in the world, particularly last year, against Pavel, Sheva, Crespo, Ibrahimovic, amongst others. I'm sure that if he is given his deserved chance at an International level, especially at this years Copa Mundial, he will shine, and show his true, world class ability.

I'll bet you anything that doesn't happen.