Liverpool FC Forum

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:46 pm

BarryBelfast wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:I do think that people understate how good he is sometimes. Fine, so his heart for the cause atones slightly in a gulf where other players have a bit of extra quality, but to be honest commitment like he's got is hugely underrated as a good trait in a central defender.

That is a great point mate and one that alot of people forget.
Ferdinand can look sublime on the ball, but give me a proper defender any day, one who will think first and foremost about stopping goals and put his body on the line for the cause.

He's ALWAYS had that though. From day one they've been his main attributes and best ones and he's ALWAYS been that sort of player, why did he get stick for it?

Because people don't know there backside from there elbow. He hasn't all of a sudden become a great player, he has simply improved a few area's over the years slightly, become more of a leader and is back playing in a position and system which suits his attributes best. Its as simple as that.

Like i've said plenty of times, he's more of a leader than Gallas and he's probably slightly more aggresive. In no other area is he better, infact, in most he's not even comparible.

And you call other people clueless.

I would have Carra over Gallas every time.

Are you serious Leon or on the wind up here fella??

Could you really say with a straight face that if we took Carra out and put Gallas in we would be a better team for it??

NO WAY!

Read it again.

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:47 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:I do think that people understate how good he is sometimes. Fine, so his heart for the cause atones slightly in a gulf where other players have a bit of extra quality, but to be honest commitment like he's got is hugely underrated as a good trait in a central defender.

That is a great point mate and one that alot of people forget.
Ferdinand can look sublime on the ball, but give me a proper defender any day, one who will think first and foremost about stopping goals and put his body on the line for the cause.

He's ALWAYS had that though. From day one they've been his main attributes and best ones and he's ALWAYS been that sort of player, why did he get stick for it?

Because people don't know there backside from there elbow. He hasn't all of a sudden become a great player, he has simply improved a few area's over the years slightly, become more of a leader and is back playing in a position and system which suits his attributes best. Its as simple as that.

Like i've said plenty of times, he's more of a leader than Gallas and he's probably slightly more aggresive. In no other area is he better, infact, in most he's not even comparible.

And you call other people clueless.

I would have Carra over Gallas every time.

Show's what you know then doesn't it.

Answer me this then all seing football oracle.

Is Carvalho better than Carragher ?

Is Terry better than Carragher ?

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:26 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:I do think that people understate how good he is sometimes. Fine, so his heart for the cause atones slightly in a gulf where other players have a bit of extra quality, but to be honest commitment like he's got is hugely underrated as a good trait in a central defender.

That is a great point mate and one that alot of people forget.
Ferdinand can look sublime on the ball, but give me a proper defender any day, one who will think first and foremost about stopping goals and put his body on the line for the cause.

He's ALWAYS had that though. From day one they've been his main attributes and best ones and he's ALWAYS been that sort of player, why did he get stick for it?

Because people don't know there backside from there elbow. He hasn't all of a sudden become a great player, he has simply improved a few area's over the years slightly, become more of a leader and is back playing in a position and system which suits his attributes best. Its as simple as that.

Like i've said plenty of times, he's more of a leader than Gallas and he's probably slightly more aggresive. In no other area is he better, infact, in most he's not even comparible.

And you call other people clueless.

I would have Carra over Gallas every time.

Show's what you know then doesn't it.

Answer me this then all seing football oracle.

Is Carvalho better than Carragher ?

Is Terry better than Carragher ?

Carvalho, not in this life.

Terry, slightly, not much in it.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:20 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:I do think that people understate how good he is sometimes. Fine, so his heart for the cause atones slightly in a gulf where other players have a bit of extra quality, but to be honest commitment like he's got is hugely underrated as a good trait in a central defender.

That is a great point mate and one that alot of people forget.
Ferdinand can look sublime on the ball, but give me a proper defender any day, one who will think first and foremost about stopping goals and put his body on the line for the cause.

He's ALWAYS had that though. From day one they've been his main attributes and best ones and he's ALWAYS been that sort of player, why did he get stick for it?

Because people don't know there backside from there elbow. He hasn't all of a sudden become a great player, he has simply improved a few area's over the years slightly, become more of a leader and is back playing in a position and system which suits his attributes best. Its as simple as that.

Like i've said plenty of times, he's more of a leader than Gallas and he's probably slightly more aggresive. In no other area is he better, infact, in most he's not even comparible.

Again i disagree stu, i dont think that gallas is a better DEFENDER than Carragher.
He might be better with the ball at his feet..a better athlete and look better.
But as a defender there is no way imo he is even the equal of Carragher.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:34 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:I do think that people understate how good he is sometimes. Fine, so his heart for the cause atones slightly in a gulf where other players have a bit of extra quality, but to be honest commitment like he's got is hugely underrated as a good trait in a central defender.

That is a great point mate and one that alot of people forget.
Ferdinand can look sublime on the ball, but give me a proper defender any day, one who will think first and foremost about stopping goals and put his body on the line for the cause.

He's ALWAYS had that though. From day one they've been his main attributes and best ones and he's ALWAYS been that sort of player, why did he get stick for it?

Because people don't know there backside from there elbow. He hasn't all of a sudden become a great player, he has simply improved a few area's over the years slightly, become more of a leader and is back playing in a position and system which suits his attributes best. Its as simple as that.

Like i've said plenty of times, he's more of a leader than Gallas and he's probably slightly more aggresive. In no other area is he better, infact, in most he's not even comparible.

Again i disagree stu, i dont think that gallas is a better DEFENDER than Carragher.
He might be better with the ball at his feet..a better athlete and look better.
But as a defender there is no way imo he is even the equal of Carragher.

Disagree completely.

Similar ability to read the game, marks players like Henry better, positions himself just aswell and easily shows as much bottle. One on one he's better than Carragher simply because he has more pace and he's as good in other area's. He's as good a tackler and he's stronger than Carragher. In the air they're pretty similar.

Thats not mentioning atheletic and technical ability.

by **dani_rossi** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:40 am

I think Jamie is World Class, when does he eva let us down in the Big matches??
the guy is just amazing, although I do agree that he probably wouldn't be half the player he is if he were with the Red Scum or any otha club
Still he neva gives anything less than all he's got, and 2 me thats world class..

by **GunGod** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:50 am

Perhaps a mix between 1 and 3. Means that he is world-class when he plays for liverpool.

How does one define world-class then? Rio Ferdinand is what people call world class but he is not to me. He can definitely put in good performances but he will also definitely switch off when his team is like 6 points ahead of everyone else. Which means that whenever he feels that a match is not crucial, he wouldn't be able to put in a 100% effort even if he tells himself to.

Carragher on the other hand has a mentality that treats every match like a semi-final. And its this attitude that sees him chase after every ball and make great tackles. When was the last time we saw him make a horribly timed tackle ala Traore on Drogba?

World-class for me, if not only for consistency.

by **ulswater** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:40 am

One of the worlds overlooked players in my eyes, if he played for Chelsea or Man U. the media would be applauding him everygame, but he plays for Liverpool and we all know what that means to the media.

You only have to look at his performance in the CL final. A world class performance..WHY..not because he loves football, not because of the wages he get but because of the shirt on his back and what it means to him..thats a world class player. You cant play like that without a deep love of the club and it's fans.
:bowdown

by **azriahmad** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:52 am

He reminds me of Phil Thompson when he was playing - his heart and soul is Liverpool. Full of commitment every time in a red shirt.

Frankly, for us he is between 2 and 3 but somehow for England he has either not really done himself justice with his displays or he simply can't muster the same when performing for England because he is at no.3. I don't know if Nesta is trully world classor not but the best defender I have ever seen is Franco Baresi, pure genius of a defender.

Great player, would have been a dream if he could have playd alongside Alan Hansen, who is simply the best central defender we ever had.

by **tel** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:42 am

Jamie is irreplacable.

Best defender on form alongside Terry. Big exception is that I'm convinced that Terry looks half as good when Makalele is not playing.

Look at Rio Ferdinand's form this season without Roy Keane in the side.

Look at Sol Campbell's form this season without Patrick Viera.

Jamie has had a lot more to do in our unbeaten run than good goalkeeping. I cant think of any notable saves Reina has to make when we went 10 games without conceding. All credit for that down to Jamie and a much improved Hyppia this season

by **akumaface** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:46 am

Top class. he is very unspectacular but very efficient. His awareness is world class but I think he lacks the game breaking header and dominance overall to be considered world class. He is also at a height disadvantage. I think Hyypia brought out the best in him as Hyypia is superior in the air and that left Carra to clean everything around Sami which suites him best. There is no question for his heart and determination but I think he loved football and liverpool to his heart. Just a great leader with quiet influence.

by **azriahmad** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:31 am

akumaface, Carra is anything but quiet. His influence can only be overshadowed by Gerrard's spectacular deeds.

He'd let rip on any team mate who did not do enough defending. This part reminded me of Peter Schmichel at manure who would scream his head off at his defenders if opponents get a shot at goal. Carra is captain material. if not for Gerrard, I'm sure Benitez would make him skipper.

by **akumaface** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:37 pm

Actually I think Carra doesn't shout all the time. He only make his presence felt unless he has too. He is kind of quiet that way. Not the constant shouting type. And I agree he is definitely a better Captian than SG.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:56 pm

akumaface wrote:Actually I think Carra doesn't shout all the time. He only make his presence felt unless he has too. He is kind of quiet that way. Not the constant shouting type. And I agree he is definitely a better Captian than SG.

Its crystal clear you've never been to Anfield.

Why do people have opinions on things when they aren't in a position to judge?

Carragher never shuts up, You can hear him from the back of the bloody kop. He probably makes more noise than 85% of the suposed supporters in the stadium.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:24 pm

As a full back I always stated that Carragher was nothing more than adequate, and I stand by that. Defensively no one will question him because he was excellent, but his lack of confidence on the ball and inability to help the play flow meant he could never be a quality full back. I guess judgements depend on what you expect from your full backs.

My main problem was that I couldn’t see a first team role for Carragher at that time, as a I said he was adequate as a full back without really being good enough to be part of the first team of a side that wants to win the title. As a centre back I questioned his body strength more than anything else, at that time I had the opinion that both your centre backs should be tall, storing and preferably fast. But it is now clear to me to see that advantages of having one tall and strong centre back, and one centre back with a low centre of gravity.

I feel the biggest difference in Carragher is self belief. Were as in previous years he was always seen as a decent player, but over shadowed by more fashionable players, come the start of last season he was one of our most experienced players, and with Rafa Benitez saying to him you’re my first choice centre back it must have boosted his confidence. I got the feeling that he never fully believed in his ability, but now he has grown in confidence and stature. Also, playing at both fullbacks has definitely made him more calm and assured on the ball, even if it didn’t make him great at it.

His communication with his defence over the last 18 months has been such a positive for us, he organises so well, and it is clear to see he has an excellent footballing brain.

In terms of the poll, I would say number 3, but I’m not so sure about the “only because he plays for Liverpool” bit. I think he would be excellent in other sides also.

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