Liverpool FC Forum

[only me]

Fabinho didn’t play as a DM - him and Gini played as two old fashioned Centre Mids with Fabinho the further forward of the two a lot of time - could also see them doing the same when Henderson came on.

Oh no you don't    ,Fab played the defensive role in the MF and he was miles ahead of golden boy in vision in intent and in skills...Why can't you just admit it??

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Fabinho didn’t play as a DM - him and Gini played as two old fashioned Centre Mids with Fabinho the further forward of the two a lot of time - could also see them doing the same when Henderson came on.

Oh no you don't    ,Fab played the defensive role in the MF and he was miles ahead of golden boy in vision in intent and in skills...Why can't you just admit it??

Admit what ? They played different roles , Fabinho when he has been on the pitch has been part of a 2 in the middle mainly alongside Gini - yesterday it was a 4-4-2 with Keïta and Mane either side of them. When Henderson came on he slotted alongside him - but when he has started he has been the central player of a three with Gini and Milner the ones going forward. Fabinho spent most of the game yesterday higher up the pitch than Gini - it was even highlighted on MOTD 2 when at times even Bobby was deeper than him. It’s two totally different set ups that the manager is employing for differing opponents depending what’s required.

Yesterday was perfect for the traditional 2 in the middle with the Manc two sitting so deep and Fabinho played very well moving forward with the ball - gave it away a few times trying to force passes through eye of a needle at times but he played very well - but it’s irrelevant to Henderson and his role in the team. The manager has 5 very good centre midfielders who will be able to mix and match in various roles and differing tactics depending on the opposition and how they set up. Won’t be surprised to see Henderson and Fabinho alongside each other soon enough.

[devaney]

Henderson has payed less than 25 minutes in 7 games this season and he has only played 90 minutes in 4 games out of 17. He wasn’t available or in the squad for 3 games. Let’s not get bogged down with how the player is rated by fans because it is irrelevant. The main point is that he is not getting the game time I would expect from the captain of the team. It also suggests, and so do the summer purchases that Klopp is far from convinced that Henderson’s name should be the first one on the sheet. How many captains have we had that you can say that about? I can never remember a time when I wouldn’t have been bothered if the club captain, or vice captain come to that, wasn’t playing for the team against Man United.

I am not really bothered about semantics. The fact remains that the midfield on Sunday against United was impressive. The team had 36 attempts on goal and at times they were playing against a brick wall. That is not to say that when Henderson and Milner play together that they don’t do a job. At the end of the day we are top of the league and they have been involved in a lot of those matches. Personally I see them both as reasonable squad players who can do a job. What I don’t see is two players that can go out and change the face of a game and win matches. And I definitely don’t see that with Henderson and frankly I never have done. Would any top club in Europe have him as captain? The simple answer is, definitely not !!

I am fed up to my back teeth with us utilising players that have serious limitations. Looking back over the last 10 to 15 years the list is endless and a key reason why we have never got close to winning the league except on the very odd occasion. That is my problem with the likes of Henderson. Yes he can do a job but just how affective is he when it comes to winning anything?

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

What Klopp has actually “said” goes against what you believe he is suggesting

Klopp has stated a number of times that Henderson had a long season last year which included the World Cup - he came back late into Pre Season so was always going to take time to be included in the squad. In our biggest games so far Henderson has started in the middle - against City , PSG , Napoli . Klopp last season didn’t have the options he has this season - players were played week in week out and weren’t as fresh during crucial games - this season he has and he will continue to rotate throughout the season. When the end of the season comes along it wouldn’t surprise me to see that the 5 guys in the will play the same sort of amount of games all depending on injuries or International call ups etc.

The midfield was very good against the Mancs they were also very good against a better midfield in Napoli - they did have 36 attempts - 15 of them came from hopeful strikes from out side the box - Clyne , Lovren etc all were having big pot shots and despite that level of attempts it took two deflections to get past the GK.

Henderson isn’t going anywhere - he has just signed an lengthy contract and that came from the manager. The captaincy - well at the end of the day it’s just an armband and you would hope that when the whistle goes all 11 step up when needed

Right now we have options - options we haven’t had in the middle of the park , the manager will be able to rotate , play players depending on the opposition and the tactics required.

Henderson is about to play his 300 game - in that time we have reached a CL Final , Europa League Final - come the closest we have done to winning the League for 20 plus years , he isn’t going to be leaving anytime soon and expect him to be in the team Friday and when City come around I fully expect him to be in the team.

[devaney]

Lallana  - Don’t give me all that mumbo jumbo. Klopp never has a bad word to say about virtually anybody. That is not his style. You predict he will start against Wolves and yet he doesn’t start him against our biggest rivals which I find more than a little strange.

So we’re 17 games into the season and Henderson is still recovering from last seasons endeavors. If you believe that load of old bollux then I feel sorry for you. One of Henderson’s strengths is his ability to run all day long. He is probably one of the fittest players in the Premiership. The simple reason why he isn’t getting more playing time is because he is not good enough.

I accept some of the attempts were wayward and Shaqs goals were deflections. The fact remains we got ourselves into numerous goal scoring positions. Mané’s goal was a thing of real beauty which resulted from brilliant creative vision and that is something I have rarely seen since the beginning of the season. It is a great shame that you have to resort to actually commenting that two of the goals were deflections in a vague attempt to justify your claims.I am far more interested that we looked like a team that was going to score and win the game. That has not always been the case this season.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

We had two big games the last week - with prob the Napoli game having more on it - so Klopp used all 5 of his midfielders across the two games - Henderson started one and played very well , Fabinho started the other and played very well and we won both and move on - yet some still want to be critical of a player.

Henderson is now starting games , he was in and out early on whilst regaining fitness but as opposed to last season we don’t need to start the same line up each game - rotating for the opposition. Your reason why he isn’t starting every game suggesting he isn’t good enough is complete ***** - if he wasn’t good enough why did he start against our title rivals and in the biggest game of the season so far against Napoli. I have no doubt he will start many more of the rest of the games through the season . The manager doesn’t hand out 5 year contracts to players he thinks aren’t good enough.

As for the shots - I believe it was 10 on target with De Gea really stretched by the Firmino effort

The ball to Mane was superb - the control was finish was even better , against Napoli an identical ball was played to Salah but he failed to control it as well as Mane and the ball ran away from him - you can guess who played that ball.

We did need two deflected goals to get past them - that’s just a fact , beyond that we were struggled to get past them.

I did have a look through the thread - it’s interesting how a view has changed - last season a number were slating Henderson all season - yet you were praising him and his ability and his importance to the team. Strange how it’s all changed to him now being not good enough and “slightly above average”

[devaney]

Yes I accept that I defended Henderson in the face of some heavyweight criticism and gave him credit where I felt it was deserved. I have never once said that he is a poor player. He can do a job but is he at the required level to bring home titles and trophies? That is my concern. He certainly showed against Real Madrid and Seville in the finals of European competitions that he isn’t. He was atrocious in both games and demonstrated that he simply isn’t good enough. It is one thing making a contribution to get to finals, however It is another thing winning them. I gave Henderson credit for the way he played when we went close to winning the title under Rogers prior to his ridiculously ill timed challenge in the City match that ultimately was a key reason why we didn’t win the title.

I could accept your reasoning if Klopp treated all the players the same. Salah, Mané and Firmino all had very long seasons together with World Cup duties. The three of them start the vast majority of games. Origi, Sturridge and Shaqiri could have been utilised but Klopp chose not to probably because the risk would be too great. The same cannot be said about Henderson because he is far easier to replace. Henderson could never be regarded as a great player or indeed a poor player so on that basis which a lot of people would agree he sits somewhere between average and good which his current valuation of circa £25m would ratify. I’ve opted for somewhere between average and good which is my prerogative and one that a lot of fans wouldn’t disagree with. In Henderson’s role as club captain I want a player that sits somewhere between good and great as a minimum requirement.

We are taking on a team that cost a fortune in an attempt to win the title. City have spent £373m net over the last 3 years. We have spent £107m net. As ridiculous as it may sound we might just need to break the 100 point barrier to win the damn thing. That is something no other team in history has achieved. A lot of titles over the last fifteen years have been won by teams with a lot  less than 90 points. To achieve this we are going to need absolute winners that don’t make horrendous mistakes at critical times or fail to play well when it is essential.

[only me]

Fact of the matter is that if you can't make a quality forward pass on a consistent basis you don't qualify as a a top DM/CM whatever you want to call it.
Hendo and Lucas and all this bunch can run all day long but if they can't make the round object move to the areas in the field which count they are Squad players at best.
Their is no contradiction in your ability as a DM to win the ball to break plays and to build plays...One dimensional Hendo isn't the best option out there...

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Congrats to Henderson for reaching 300 games for the club

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Superb 300th game from the skipper - can see his form returning. Was a very good tandem with Fabinho

[bunglemark2]

Superb 300th game from the skipper - can see his form returning. Was a very good tandem with Fabinho

Have you and Hendo got a thang goin' on?

[7_Kewell]

He played really well today, hopefully it'll continue as he ups his game and fights for his place in the team. No room for passengers in this team anymore

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Superb 300th game from the skipper - can see his form returning. Was a very good tandem with Fabinho

Have you and Hendo got a thang goin' on?

It’s called giving praise when earned -Henderson was excellent last night and people won’t praise him because they have already nail the flag to the mast in regards him. But I happen to think he is a very good player for us and will play a big role for us over the rest of the season

[devaney]

I’m not Hendo’s biggest fan but  I have actually praised him in the match thread for his performance against Wolves. The reason Lallana that we don’t see eye to eye is probably down to terminology. I don’t use words like superb lightly. Hendo did ok but superb was stretching the rating of his performance to the very limits. Virgil and Mo’s match winning performances on the other hand could be considered superb. Henderson’s performance was slightly above the minimum level I would expect from a player captaining Liverpool FC.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Sorry - should a captain play to any different level compared to all the others ? If so why ? It’s just an armband at the end of the day and players captain a team differently , some do it by performance , some do it by words and motivation etc but each player should be rated on the same level regardless of if they were wearing an arm band or not.

Yesterday’s game was a proper battle and Henderson was right in the middle of if and was the best midfielder on the park , he did everything people accuse of not doing and it’s what he can do when he doesn’t need to sit. It wasn’t a Gerrard Hollywood performance - but it was excellent both going forward and covering/defending - and when someone says “slightly above the minimum level” , it just seems like someone doesn’t want to admit they went over the top with the critical remarks - like I said , last year you praised him and backed him and called him excellent etc - this year he was “just above average”. It seems all very reactionary right now. Because Henderson didn’t start against Utd you made all sorts of suggestions about him not being good enough - well he started in a far tougher game before UTd and also after and suggest he will start again against City - it would suggest he is good enough and he will continue to start throughout the season