Kenny Departs

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 am

Kharhaz » Mon May 14, 2012 11:21 pm wrote:I hope FSG sit with him and start off with a comment Kenny made, something like, "now, about nobody leaving the club....."


to be fair i think kenny is right, because we qualified for the europa league via a cup competition and not our league position we have to start in the qualifying rounds and the europa league is a lengthy, drawn out competition at the best of times so it`s going to be even worse now, add that to the carling cup and the f.a cup and we potentially have a lot of games to play next season. i think because a top 4 finish is absolutely imperative next year (especially if we want to keep the likes of suarez) kenny is basically going to have 2 teams, a cup team and a league side.
i dont think kenny will want the likes of suarez and gerrard standing in an airport in russia or moldova or somewhere in the early hours of thursday night / friday morning when we have a big game in london or newcastle on the sunday.
i think kenny will give a lot of the younger players like kelly, flannagan, robinson, shelvey, spearing and sterling a lot of gametime in the cup competitions (especially the earlier rounds) but i reckon he`d also like a few old heads in there like carragher, kuyt and maxi too.
i think kenny`s already realised that next year the cups arent going to keep him in a job, he needs to get 4th so the last thing he needs is the likes of carroll and suarez having already played 35 games by christmas.
the more important the league becomes to us the bigger the squad we need.
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Postby Reg » Tue May 15, 2012 3:12 am

Good post Yakka.
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Postby Octsky » Tue May 15, 2012 3:30 am

now we are heavily link to Wigan's Robert Martinez, those who hope Kenny to be sack, need to relook at the current situation again.
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Postby D___C » Tue May 15, 2012 4:00 am

The fact hes going to Boston is a good thing from Kenny's perspective.... no way do you bring a guy across the pond to sack him.

Kenny will be here next season.

It goes without saying that the summer is a huge one. Who we buy must be first team quality (central midfield especially).. as a poor start will see Kenny gone by Christmas.
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Postby Reg » Tue May 15, 2012 6:01 am

Kenny Does America.

No doubt Kenny's going to receive the good word in his shell-like and fair dues, no harm reminding him.

That said I also hope since he's taking his training team that the yanks will give them a thorough and extended insight into US training techniques, management practise and take the time to go through the philosophy of how a club manages assets, players expectations and to read the signals that a player isn't going to make it then separate support from reality and handle the siuation effectively - from both an on and off the field perspective, ie either drop the player until he improves (Henderson) or get rid (Downing/Adam). Alternatively they may have called him over to explain why it took Carroll 15 months to shine and what he should have done during the intervening period. (Maybe send him to a football clinic for 2 months for example to dissect his game, map out his strengths and devise the best formation/strategy/players to accelerate the success and therefore increase our point tally/place/income/improve sponsership outlook etc..).

I just hope to god he's not gone over for an end of season party and sightseeing.  :ghostface:
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Postby Johnny Boy » Tue May 15, 2012 7:15 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue May 15, 2012 12:09 am wrote:
Kharhaz » Mon May 14, 2012 11:21 pm wrote:I hope FSG sit with him and start off with a comment Kenny made, something like, "now, about nobody leaving the club....."


to be fair i think kenny is right, because we qualified for the europa league via a cup competition and not our league position we have to start in the qualifying rounds and the europa league is a lengthy, drawn out competition at the best of times so it`s going to be even worse now, add that to the carling cup and the f.a cup and we potentially have a lot of games to play next season. i think because a top 4 finish is absolutely imperative next year (especially if we want to keep the likes of suarez) kenny is basically going to have 2 teams, a cup team and a league side.
i dont think kenny will want the likes of suarez and gerrard standing in an airport in russia or moldova or somewhere in the early hours of thursday night / friday morning when we have a big game in london or newcastle on the sunday.
i think kenny will give a lot of the younger players like kelly, flannagan, robinson, shelvey, spearing and sterling a lot of gametime in the cup competitions (especially the earlier rounds) but i reckon he`d also like a few old heads in there like carragher, kuyt and maxi too.
i think kenny`s already realised that next year the cups arent going to keep him in a job, he needs to get 4th so the last thing he needs is the likes of carroll and suarez having already played 35 games by christmas.
the more important the league becomes to us the bigger the squad we need.


I thought not being in Europe would help our league campaign this season. One things for sure we need a good start to next season.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Tue May 15, 2012 8:35 am

Why Kenny is still the man to take Liverpool forward
Published on May 15th, 2012
Written by: Paul McCabe
Prev



2011-2012 has been another rollercoaster season at Liverpool Football Club. The season has brought a return to winning silverware, trips to Wembley, some impressive football but ultimately the lingering sense of failure.

It wasn’t supposed to be this way and Kenny’s time as temporary manager provided plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Liverpool, as the critics are keen to point out, spent over £100 million over the course of a year (not as a net spend, but real money nonetheless) with the key target being to finish in the top four. Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool’s saviour on so many occasions, seemed destined to usher in a new era, to steer the club away from the misery of Hicks and Gillett’s disastrous regime and into Europe’s top competition. It didn’t pan out that way, and the club finished in a dismal 8th place, shattering all manner of unwanted records.

Again, it is important to look back. There are good reasons to do this, as it allows a greater sense of perspective. Too often, football fans’ reactions these days are twisted by a biased media, social media chest-thumping and a genuine lack of perspective. Ambition is great, but it has to be tempered by some degree of pragmatism.

The fact is, FSG’s net spend has not been close to Liverpool’s rivals and there is still no decision on a stadium. The club is making significantly less matchday revenue than the top 3. This means that, whoever the manager is, he will have relatively little to spend and be saddled by a transfer policy of “buy young and keep the wages low.” This is a nice idea, but when rival teams are signing up the likes of Aguero, Silva and Mata it is possibly a case of “pennywise, pound foolish.”

“Other managers have done better with less money…”

The leadership structure at Liverpool is slightly unorthodox, and Comolli was at the club before Kenny took the reins. This was hardly an ideal set-up, as Kenny is used to more autonomy than that. While most of the signings are yet to bear fruit, no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors, what FSG’s remit is, who is responsible for signing certain players and why no-one was signed in January (out of character for Kenny).

With no big money to spend, few of the top managers would touch Liverpool with a proverbial bargepole. That means that, should FSG fire Kenny, the club is likely to be in a similar position to when Rafa was “released.” It means that a media-friendly manager who has overachieved, such as Martinez or Brendan Rodgers, could be in contention for the job. So, a manager with a proven track record of silverware gets replaced by a manager who has helped his team avoid relegation against the odds. That does not seem like progress. While they have performed very well in their current jobs, the aforementioned managers might find managing a huge club like Liverpool with the associated demands and expectations slightly different than avoiding the drop.

“Worth a punt, though? Their clubs play good football and sign young players on the cheap.”

This current squad, while flawed, has played some very good football and gotten some big results. It may seem like a disaster just now and maybe some of last year’s signings will prove to be flops but, when you look back, there have been plenty of times when players and managers have needed more than one season to gel. If Kenny Dalglish is fired, we will never know whether that would have been the case.

It is natural that Liverpool fans will want quick success, as we have been starved of it for so long and Kenny is a proven winner. Yet look back just two years. The club was in a sorry state, with Rafa about to be fired, Hodgson (flavour of the month at the time) about to take over and the club genuinely fighting for its life. When Kenny took over and FSG deserve credit for signing him up, he did a fantastic job initially under very difficult circumstances. He brought back belief into the players and fans, had the team playing well and, in the end, wasn’t that far away from a top four place. There are two sides to a story, so it would be foolish not to consider other perspectives.

“That’s all well and good, but he’s failed now, hasn’t he?…”

There are reasons to want to fire Kenny Dalglish – fear of falling further behind and doubt about whether he can turn it around now. Stats can be used to support any argument and there won’t be many people arguing that the league campaign was acceptable. Crucially, though, Kenny wouldn’t and hasn’t argued that. However, there are reasons for cheer. Some of the football has been excellent, the team has beaten five of the top six teams and there was the small manner of two cup finals. Granted, that was not his target, yet many clubs would surely swap their 5th, 6th and 7th place finishes for some silverware. After all, top managers are there to win trophies, so that end Kenny has maintained a fine record and helped create more happy memories for the fans.

“Sure, but it’s only the League Cup. Birmingham won that!”

To win any trophy in the modern era is an excellent achievement. He deserves credit for being the only British manager to lead his team to silverware this season. It is significant. However, in his first full season back at the club, Kenny has failed in what was his sole target (a top four finish), the team has wasted countless chances, lost to so-called “lesser teams” and Anfield has been anything but a fortress. In the league, it has been a depressing time from pretty much the first game to the last – missed penalties, wasted chances, failing to close out games and an inability to string a run together.

“Exactly! Fire him. He’s past it.”

Firing managers is not always the answer and, given Liverpool’s current infrastructure, it might even be catastrophic. Kenny certainly didn’t seem “past it” in February after the League Cup final win. He has led the team to wins over City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal, which is interesting since rival fans try to claim he is a “dinosaur”. Certainly, it would no longer be a public relations disaster for FSG to fire Kenny Dalglish, as many newer fans either have short memories or do not care about the past and Kenny’s ability to get it right. That’s not to say that Kenny is blameless for a terrible league season. He wasn’t. However, there were mitigating circumstances – the Suarez ban, Lucas’ injury and genuine bad luck in some games.

“The table doesn’t lie, though.”

Liverpool simply were not good enough in the league for most of the season. This is undoubtedly true. However, we are talking about a genuinely insane season, where Newcastle finished 5th and Chelsea (who’ve spent an absolute fortune) finished 6th having been Champions two years ago. Even Manchester City lost to Sunderland and Swansea so, while Liverpool’s lack of dominance has been frustrating, the league is stronger and more unpredictable than it’s ever been.

“But what about the Suarez affair? That wasn’t too clever, was it?”

Kenny did not cover himself in glory over the Suarez situation. That is not because he is “out of touch”, but because he clearly sensed a stitch-up. He did, in the end, apologise. Tellingly, the lack of leadership around this issue ensured Kenny was left hung out to dry. FSG and Ian Ayre remained generally tight-lipped on the issue, so Kenny and the players were left to manage the issue and the scrutiny. It was, fair to say, not handled in the most sophisticated manner. Kenny’s detractors would have found anything to use against him. If he’d gone against Suarez, he’d have alienated a top player and could have been accused of not being supportive. When he supported him, it was framed as Kenny being disingenuous. Ultimately, though, Suarez will have appreciated his manager’s backing. It takes courage to stand up for what you believe in and Liverpool need a courageous manager who will see through the garbage being used to denigrate the club.

In his autobiography, he admitted to being naturally suspicious of the footballing press and maybe that suspicion gets the better of him at times. However, all this “out of touch” nonsense misses the point. Mourinho is one of the most successful managers in the modern era, yet he is synonymous with ridiculous soundbites, ungracious behavior and selective memory. Most of the top managers create this siege mentality and it is often effective. They’ll back their players, deflect the blame and create an “us against them” mentality.



“Who cares about other managers? Isn’t this just shifting the blame?”

Other managers are worthy of discussion because it allows us to contrast the way the media distort Kenny’s achievements and hold others up as shining examples of professionalism. Whereas other managers might throw their players under the proverbial bus and roll with the inane line of media enquiry, Kenny can come across as quite prickly and defensive at times. It’s not slick and polished, but he clearly doesn’t suffer fools gladly. To fire a manager because he is not friendly with the press is, at best, shortsighted.

“Liverpool is a massive club and a worldwide franchise. Having a manager who is prickly with the press damages the brand.”

Kenny’s attitude with the press is irrelevant. He won’t get the credit his achievements deserve and even some Liverpool fans choose to ignore it. For one thing, winning a title with Blackburn is casually reframed as “anyone could win with all that money.” It’s strange, then, that no-one else in the Premier League era has taken over a team in the equivalent of the Championship, gotten them promoted, and led them to the Premier League title within 4 years. Money or not, that is an astonishing and surely never to be surpassed achievement.

Kenny got little credit for leading the club to its first domestic double in 1986. That was someone else’s team, allegedly, and he was just “lucky.” That’s fair enough and people will cling to their perspectives, but Liverpool had a trophyless season in 1987. He wasn’t fired and was given, wait for it, time – time to put things right, to offload older, underperforming players and to bring in talented reinforcements like Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge leading the club to some of the finest footballing displays ever seen at Anfield and more silverware.

“That’s the past, though. Football has changed.”

The past can be instructive. While the club has rested on past glories for too long, it would be remiss not to acknowledge the way in which the anti-Dalglish narrative has played out. When he left in 1991, his critics said he was a “bottler” and he had an ageing team that was in decline. Patrick Barclay, then writing for The Times, cited signings such as David Speedie and Jimmy Carter as “evidence” that Kenny had lost the plot – much like when Fergie signed Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Bebe et al. The club was top of the table at the time, having enjoyed its best start to a league campaign in many years, and still in the FA Cup. This is a unique sort of decline.

The problem, if anything, is that Kenny is not a shameless self-promoter. He has never drawn attention to his own success as a player or manager. That has enabled others to undermine him and spin elaborate yarns that are laughable when looking at the most basic of statistics. For example, Graeme Souness has often claimed that the Liverpool team he inherited from Kenny was on the wane, that he “had to” overhaul the squad on a massive scale. He blamed Kenny for his own failures. Kenny left when Liverpool were champions and top of the table. That is, as Rafa might say, the fact.

“The other “fact” is that we are not good enough.”

Football is so transitory – Roberto Mancini went from zero to hero in the last 120 seconds of the season. Destiny hinges on moments of luck and heroism. Kenny has experienced this throughout his career, as a player and as a manager. If anyone deserves time to get it right, it is Kenny Dalglish. When he has been given time in the past, he has won more battles than he’s lost. It may seem overly romantic, but Kenny speaks the same language as the fans. If you can happily dismiss a legend when things are bad (but not beyond repair), what then makes Liverpool unique? It will be another unforgiving “firing club”, searching for the magic bullet. There will be no-one more hurt by Liverpool’s league form and more determined to get it right than Kenny. He came back to the club at a difficult time in its history and was put in a difficult position of having to restore confidence. He has never let the club down and, while things may not have worked exactly the way we wanted them in 2012 and football is more a more ruthless business than ever, surely now is not the time to let Kenny “walk alone.” He needs the fans’ and the owners’ support more than ever. With that and just a bit more luck, he is still the man to turn it around. After all…

Sometimes you have to look back before you begin to look forward…
Benny The Noon
 

Postby Thommo's perm » Tue May 15, 2012 9:59 am

Benny The Noon » Tue May 15, 2012 7:35 am wrote:Why Kenny is still the man to take Liverpool forward
Published on May 15th, 2012
Written by: Paul McCabe
Prev



2011-2012 has been another rollercoaster season at Liverpool Football Club. The season has brought a return to winning silverware, trips to Wembley, some impressive football but ultimately the lingering sense of failure.

It wasn’t supposed to be this way and Kenny’s time as temporary manager provided plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Liverpool, as the critics are keen to point out, spent over £100 million over the course of a year (not as a net spend, but real money nonetheless) with the key target being to finish in the top four. Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool’s saviour on so many occasions, seemed destined to usher in a new era, to steer the club away from the misery of Hicks and Gillett’s disastrous regime and into Europe’s top competition. It didn’t pan out that way, and the club finished in a dismal 8th place, shattering all manner of unwanted records.

Again, it is important to look back. There are good reasons to do this, as it allows a greater sense of perspective. Too often, football fans’ reactions these days are twisted by a biased media, social media chest-thumping and a genuine lack of perspective. Ambition is great, but it has to be tempered by some degree of pragmatism.

The fact is, FSG’s net spend has not been close to Liverpool’s rivals and there is still no decision on a stadium. The club is making significantly less matchday revenue than the top 3. This means that, whoever the manager is, he will have relatively little to spend and be saddled by a transfer policy of “buy young and keep the wages low.” This is a nice idea, but when rival teams are signing up the likes of Aguero, Silva and Mata it is possibly a case of “pennywise, pound foolish.”

“Other managers have done better with less money…”

The leadership structure at Liverpool is slightly unorthodox, and Comolli was at the club before Kenny took the reins. This was hardly an ideal set-up, as Kenny is used to more autonomy than that. While most of the signings are yet to bear fruit, no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors, what FSG’s remit is, who is responsible for signing certain players and why no-one was signed in January (out of character for Kenny).

With no big money to spend, few of the top managers would touch Liverpool with a proverbial bargepole. That means that, should FSG fire Kenny, the club is likely to be in a similar position to when Rafa was “released.” It means that a media-friendly manager who has overachieved, such as Martinez or Brendan Rodgers, could be in contention for the job. So, a manager with a proven track record of silverware gets replaced by a manager who has helped his team avoid relegation against the odds. That does not seem like progress. While they have performed very well in their current jobs, the aforementioned managers might find managing a huge club like Liverpool with the associated demands and expectations slightly different than avoiding the drop.

“Worth a punt, though? Their clubs play good football and sign young players on the cheap.”

This current squad, while flawed, has played some very good football and gotten some big results. It may seem like a disaster just now and maybe some of last year’s signings will prove to be flops but, when you look back, there have been plenty of times when players and managers have needed more than one season to gel. If Kenny Dalglish is fired, we will never know whether that would have been the case.

It is natural that Liverpool fans will want quick success, as we have been starved of it for so long and Kenny is a proven winner. Yet look back just two years. The club was in a sorry state, with Rafa about to be fired, Hodgson (flavour of the month at the time) about to take over and the club genuinely fighting for its life. When Kenny took over and FSG deserve credit for signing him up, he did a fantastic job initially under very difficult circumstances. He brought back belief into the players and fans, had the team playing well and, in the end, wasn’t that far away from a top four place. There are two sides to a story, so it would be foolish not to consider other perspectives.

“That’s all well and good, but he’s failed now, hasn’t he?…”

There are reasons to want to fire Kenny Dalglish – fear of falling further behind and doubt about whether he can turn it around now. Stats can be used to support any argument and there won’t be many people arguing that the league campaign was acceptable. Crucially, though, Kenny wouldn’t and hasn’t argued that. However, there are reasons for cheer. Some of the football has been excellent, the team has beaten five of the top six teams and there was the small manner of two cup finals. Granted, that was not his target, yet many clubs would surely swap their 5th, 6th and 7th place finishes for some silverware. After all, top managers are there to win trophies, so that end Kenny has maintained a fine record and helped create more happy memories for the fans.

“Sure, but it’s only the League Cup. Birmingham won that!”

To win any trophy in the modern era is an excellent achievement. He deserves credit for being the only British manager to lead his team to silverware this season. It is significant. However, in his first full season back at the club, Kenny has failed in what was his sole target (a top four finish), the team has wasted countless chances, lost to so-called “lesser teams” and Anfield has been anything but a fortress. In the league, it has been a depressing time from pretty much the first game to the last – missed penalties, wasted chances, failing to close out games and an inability to string a run together.

“Exactly! Fire him. He’s past it.”

Firing managers is not always the answer and, given Liverpool’s current infrastructure, it might even be catastrophic. Kenny certainly didn’t seem “past it” in February after the League Cup final win. He has led the team to wins over City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal, which is interesting since rival fans try to claim he is a “dinosaur”. Certainly, it would no longer be a public relations disaster for FSG to fire Kenny Dalglish, as many newer fans either have short memories or do not care about the past and Kenny’s ability to get it right. That’s not to say that Kenny is blameless for a terrible league season. He wasn’t. However, there were mitigating circumstances – the Suarez ban, Lucas’ injury and genuine bad luck in some games.

“The table doesn’t lie, though.”

Liverpool simply were not good enough in the league for most of the season. This is undoubtedly true. However, we are talking about a genuinely insane season, where Newcastle finished 5th and Chelsea (who’ve spent an absolute fortune) finished 6th having been Champions two years ago. Even Manchester City lost to Sunderland and Swansea so, while Liverpool’s lack of dominance has been frustrating, the league is stronger and more unpredictable than it’s ever been.

“But what about the Suarez affair? That wasn’t too clever, was it?”

Kenny did not cover himself in glory over the Suarez situation. That is not because he is “out of touch”, but because he clearly sensed a stitch-up. He did, in the end, apologise. Tellingly, the lack of leadership around this issue ensured Kenny was left hung out to dry. FSG and Ian Ayre remained generally tight-lipped on the issue, so Kenny and the players were left to manage the issue and the scrutiny. It was, fair to say, not handled in the most sophisticated manner. Kenny’s detractors would have found anything to use against him. If he’d gone against Suarez, he’d have alienated a top player and could have been accused of not being supportive. When he supported him, it was framed as Kenny being disingenuous. Ultimately, though, Suarez will have appreciated his manager’s backing. It takes courage to stand up for what you believe in and Liverpool need a courageous manager who will see through the garbage being used to denigrate the club.

In his autobiography, he admitted to being naturally suspicious of the footballing press and maybe that suspicion gets the better of him at times. However, all this “out of touch” nonsense misses the point. Mourinho is one of the most successful managers in the modern era, yet he is synonymous with ridiculous soundbites, ungracious behavior and selective memory. Most of the top managers create this siege mentality and it is often effective. They’ll back their players, deflect the blame and create an “us against them” mentality.



“Who cares about other managers? Isn’t this just shifting the blame?”

Other managers are worthy of discussion because it allows us to contrast the way the media distort Kenny’s achievements and hold others up as shining examples of professionalism. Whereas other managers might throw their players under the proverbial bus and roll with the inane line of media enquiry, Kenny can come across as quite prickly and defensive at times. It’s not slick and polished, but he clearly doesn’t suffer fools gladly. To fire a manager because he is not friendly with the press is, at best, shortsighted.

“Liverpool is a massive club and a worldwide franchise. Having a manager who is prickly with the press damages the brand.”

Kenny’s attitude with the press is irrelevant. He won’t get the credit his achievements deserve and even some Liverpool fans choose to ignore it. For one thing, winning a title with Blackburn is casually reframed as “anyone could win with all that money.” It’s strange, then, that no-one else in the Premier League era has taken over a team in the equivalent of the Championship, gotten them promoted, and led them to the Premier League title within 4 years. Money or not, that is an astonishing and surely never to be surpassed achievement.

Kenny got little credit for leading the club to its first domestic double in 1986. That was someone else’s team, allegedly, and he was just “lucky.” That’s fair enough and people will cling to their perspectives, but Liverpool had a trophyless season in 1987. He wasn’t fired and was given, wait for it, time – time to put things right, to offload older, underperforming players and to bring in talented reinforcements like Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge leading the club to some of the finest footballing displays ever seen at Anfield and more silverware.

“That’s the past, though. Football has changed.”

The past can be instructive. While the club has rested on past glories for too long, it would be remiss not to acknowledge the way in which the anti-Dalglish narrative has played out. When he left in 1991, his critics said he was a “bottler” and he had an ageing team that was in decline. Patrick Barclay, then writing for The Times, cited signings such as David Speedie and Jimmy Carter as “evidence” that Kenny had lost the plot – much like when Fergie signed Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Bebe et al. The club was top of the table at the time, having enjoyed its best start to a league campaign in many years, and still in the FA Cup. This is a unique sort of decline.

The problem, if anything, is that Kenny is not a shameless self-promoter. He has never drawn attention to his own success as a player or manager. That has enabled others to undermine him and spin elaborate yarns that are laughable when looking at the most basic of statistics. For example, Graeme Souness has often claimed that the Liverpool team he inherited from Kenny was on the wane, that he “had to” overhaul the squad on a massive scale. He blamed Kenny for his own failures. Kenny left when Liverpool were champions and top of the table. That is, as Rafa might say, the fact.

“The other “fact” is that we are not good enough.”

Football is so transitory – Roberto Mancini went from zero to hero in the last 120 seconds of the season. Destiny hinges on moments of luck and heroism. Kenny has experienced this throughout his career, as a player and as a manager. If anyone deserves time to get it right, it is Kenny Dalglish. When he has been given time in the past, he has won more battles than he’s lost. It may seem overly romantic, but Kenny speaks the same language as the fans. If you can happily dismiss a legend when things are bad (but not beyond repair), what then makes Liverpool unique? It will be another unforgiving “firing club”, searching for the magic bullet. There will be no-one more hurt by Liverpool’s league form and more determined to get it right than Kenny. He came back to the club at a difficult time in its history and was put in a difficult position of having to restore confidence. He has never let the club down and, while things may not have worked exactly the way we wanted them in 2012 and football is more a more ruthless business than ever, surely now is not the time to let Kenny “walk alone.” He needs the fans’ and the owners’ support more than ever. With that and just a bit more luck, he is still the man to turn it around. After all…

Sometimes you have to look back before you begin to look forward…


Great article. Clear headed and considered
The man speaks sense
:nod
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Postby RedAnt » Tue May 15, 2012 10:00 am

Love that article, Benny.
"The S*n: The paper you wipe your ars.e on and more sh*t comes off the paper"
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Postby Reg » Tue May 15, 2012 10:48 am

Nothing new though lads, no insight, no constructive ideas of how to move forward.
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Postby burjennio » Tue May 15, 2012 10:59 am

I try to be as objective as possible when it comes to this club but c'mon, that article is written by someone clearly wearing the rosiest of rose tinted spectacles. The "coulda, shoulda, woulda" attitude of the piece isnt journalism, its blind faith in places. I agree though one hundred percent about how hypocritical people can be over Kennys persona in the media and at the same time have a love-in for Jose Mourinho or Alex Ferguson, manipulative, deceiptful men who repeatedly attack peers, players and officials in the press with statements and accusations bordering on slander to gain a "psychological edge" yet the media in this country buy into it hook, line and sinker because it fits right into their soap opera approach to sports coverage

But you know what drives me nuts? Its not only something this guy consistently barks on about in this article, but a way of thinking that I see from so many posters on here and out in the world, is that a manager is automatically terrible if hes at a smaller club and hes "over achieved" as he puts it to become "flavour of the month". There are such a large amount of football supporters out their that seem to believe that only a manager who has won a cabinet full of trophies can deliver success and repeatedly call for the same names time and again such as Mourinho, Hiddink, Rijkaard etc. Great managers have to start somewhere, rarely do they get a chance to take over a huge club without first making a name for themselves. People laugh off the idea of Martinez, Rodgers, Lambert etc when hypothetically connected with the Liverpool job because they dont have a Champions League win behind them ffs - instead of being impressed by the fact that Lambert has taken Norwich f*cking City to mid table respectability in the premier league after back to back promotions while playing positive football with a budget less than their owner gets paid for making a pot of lentil soup. Rodgers has taken little Swansea City to promtion and a mid table finish playing a style of football that defies belief - can you tell me that if that guy was given the money to bring in some top technical players instead of having to mould a side of lower league journeymen into a "mini-Bara" (a nearly miraculous feat in itself) he couldnt deliver the goods? Lastly is Martinez, manager of a side that finished the season behind only the league champions in terms of form. "Why didnt he do it all season them?" people ask - he manages a team that has its best players sold every summer, with a miniscule transfer budget he rebuilds the side again and again yet keeps them up every season playing some quality attacking football - something associated with successful sides and if he actually had a top group of players to work with and was allowed to consistently add to a quality squad the question has to be asked of how far he could go. I know this is a point sidetracking from the topic of this thread, and dont mistake my defense of other managers as me wanting Dalglish replaced, but its just a mindset that irks me to the point of wanting to bang my head of the table when people are so shallow minded in their assumptions of what makes a successful football manager.
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Postby stmichael » Tue May 15, 2012 11:59 am

Octsky » Tue May 15, 2012 3:30 am wrote:now we are heavily link to Wigan's Robert Martinez, those who hope Kenny to be sack, need to relook at the current situation again.


great. so we're linked with a guy who escapes relegation by the skin of his teeth every year. another manager who gets linked to other jobs as soon as his side have a run of decent results. i actually like martinez and the wasy his teams try and play football but is this really the standard of manager we should be looking at? it was the same on here a while back when bolton had a few decent results and all of a sudden people were advoocating owen coyle when rafa went. now look at him.
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Postby RedAnt » Tue May 15, 2012 12:05 pm

People seem to forget just where we were when Kenny took over. There was no stability whatsoever. The progess that many of us have seen this year and that others are currently still blind to is that we now have a much better foundation to build on. Kenny hasn't made us worse in the long term. We couldn't have gotten much worse. I, and many other "rose tinted" fans, think that to fire Kenny would be pointless since there is no certain replacement. It's all well and good taking a gamble on say Martinez, but what if it dosen't work? How will that have improved us or bettered our situation? We'd just be another season down the line and calling for the new mans head. "Out of his depth!" many would say. If we fired him, that'd be three managers in three years and a fourth coming in. Sound familiar? Aye...it should. We don't work that way. We're Liverpool. We stick by our own against everything...or so we used to.

Kenny has had ONE bad season. Count how many good ones he's had for us and give him a chance to show what he can do given time and support. If we're still struggling 3 months into next season, then it may be time to review the situation. I believe we will be up and running though come next year.
"The S*n: The paper you wipe your ars.e on and more sh*t comes off the paper"
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Postby parchpea » Tue May 15, 2012 12:29 pm

We dont work this way, we are Liverpool, we have the Liverpool way, we are not Chelsea, its endless
and means absolutely nothing anymore. The Liverpool way as was, when we walked with a swagger
and where the benchmark for every club in world football has gone, long gone.

What we are is a mid table football team that is very handy at flushing millions down the bog in
transfer fees and astonishingly generous contracts and last year did the same again.

The idea was not to do that again, but we did, and all sanctioned by Kenny Dalglish and backed up by
a catastrophic league campaign our worst since the mid 90s.

The Liverpool way is to be a successful football club and the envy of the football world, however at
this point we are neither of those and no one, not even King Kenny, should stand in the way of the
pursuit of getting it back.

Dalglish asked to be judged at the end of the season and so he will be by his employers in Boston.

We await the outcome with baited breath.
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Postby RedAnt » Tue May 15, 2012 12:33 pm

parchpea » Tue May 15, 2012 11:29 am wrote:
The Liverpool way is to be a successful football club and the envy of the football world


And if we had a sugar daddy to gives us the fee for any superstar footballer, and to pay any wage demanded, perhaps we'd have success. But would that success make us the "envy of the world"? I don't envy Man City, and I sure as H*ll don't envy Chelsea. Buying success is not an enviable action in my eyes. To win it through honest, hard work, remaining true to what we have always stood for (things you seem to see as redundant now)...that would be enviable to the plastic fans of Chelsea.
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