Liverpool FC Forum

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:11 am

Dalglish wrote: So what exactly are you saying Peewee ? As an Ex Pat living in another country (as i assume you are) what are your opinions on the multi cultured aspect in England ?

i really dont care about a persons colour or where they are from Dalglish, live and let live. you are right i am an expat living in malaysia. a totally multi cultural society, i think 40% malay, 30% chinese, 25% indian and 5% others. they live in harmony although diferent races, religions, languages etc. people accept each other because people dont rock the boat. that is the problem in the UK, too many people trying to gain an advantage. there is no equality in the UK, there is no equality in malaysia either because the indiginous malay people get cheaper houses, loans etc but the other races just work harder to make up for this. is has resulted in the malay work force being quite lazy and left the chinese residents basically steering the malasian economy.
i work here and i am not a burden on the taxpayers.

my only problem with any race issues is when an individual tries to use there race to gain an advantage, that goes for white people as well.

my arguments on here are as devils advocate. there are two sides to every argument and its a bit annoying that we are naive to think that everyone will agree with the 'here here for swift justice'.

i am sure there are racists on here who wont touch this thread for fear of being kicked off or being abused for their opinions.
like i have said, every person is entitled to an opinion and every opinion will not be right for everyone but we have to accept peoples opinions as long as they are well thought out and not just meant to shock.

there will always be racist people, we will never get away from that.

my philosophy Dalglish that if someone is a c@nt then they are a c@nt whether they are white, black, asian, chinese whatever. however i hate my dislike of a person being turned into a race issue because they are not white.

i hate the argument "but i have lots of black friends" as it sounds so corny and like people are trying to justify. however i have a lot of black/asian friends but hand on heart if i ever hear one say they were victimised because of race when they clearly were not i would think strongly about staying friends with that person.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:22 am

zarababe wrote:
peewee wrote:is that not the aim of a political party?, the aim is to get votes by highlighting issues that are relevent to the area where the election is held.

at no point did they ohysicall threaten anyone to vote for them. they got elected purely on the manifesto whicjh has now moved away form all coloureds and is againt the fresh immmigration policies held by the government.

however much you dislike the BNP they are there because thankfully we live in a so called democracy and anyone can stand for election. people voted for them because they wanted to make a point.

by your rhetoric any council or govenment seat won has been won by muscling in, this includes labour, conservitive etc. maybe we should just do away with the politcal process and just allow candidates to stand who you agree with.

people criticised Enoch Powell years ago, i am not saying i agree with his 'rivers of blood' speech but go and read it, its very interesting just how right he was.

.. you are arguing on a point that I have already answered..

... spin.. suits.. manifestos.. not in the face racism... it doesn't change the underlying facts.. the BNP's agenda is racist ...

.. and what exactly have I said to make u think that I have to be agreed with .. ?

.. as for the rivers of blood... many a river has been laden by the actions of the ruling whites in many countries of the world... that is really a weak argument...

haha i wondered how long it would be before coloniolism raised its head, very poor.

zarababe most coutries are stronger for the empire, malaysia still gets billions in aid from the UK as do most other countries.

how many times do i have to repeat that i am not racist, i am educated and can see both arguments but for the sake of this becoming a 'lets just criticise racism' forum without most people fully knowing the facts i like to play devils advocate.

i really dont care, a person is a person to me regardless of colour, howver that is not the case for most people. lets not forget its not just white people who are racist, there are racists all over the world, however associating a few monkey chants with fascism and nazis is just pathetic hysteria.

zarababe i know why you feel strongly about this but you need to understand that some people will always be racist. in liverpool we are lucky, we have the oldest chinese community in europe, the oldest black community in the UK and the oldest mosque in the uk, the city is multicultural so i was brought up in that society, like i said i see the person not the colour, but the sooner you accept that all people dont the better for yourself.

also just because you dont agree with a parties policies does not make them wrong. the BNP gained seats after the riots involving asians in the north of england. of course people would be unhappy and vote for change, yes of course there are thugs associated with the BNP, just as there are with the green party, tories, labour, however they just have a different agenda. thats life im afraid

by **Dalglish** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:22 am

Some valid points there Peewee and I thank you for your candour .................however there is a world of difference between someone attempting to gain an advantage purely through their ethnic mix and being victimised by minority groups with extreme and narrow view points.

People who use the old argument that a few people have expolited the system as a way of excusing racism and instilling fear in the general population that they are about to be "swamped" is naive in the extreme and I would have thought a man of your obvious inteligence would bw able to see straight through that ?

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:16 am

Dalglish wrote:Some valid points there Peewee and I thank you for your candour .................however there is a world of difference between someone attempting to gain an advantage purely through their ethnic mix and being victimised by minority groups with extreme and narrow view points.

People who use the old argument that a few people have expolited the system as a way of excusing racism and instilling fear in the general population that they are about to be "swamped" is naive in the extreme and I would have thought a man of your obvious inteligence would bw able to see straight through that ?

i have not excused racism dalglish, read back and at no point do i say i agree with it, i do admit i can see the racists point of view, however that does not mean i agree with it.

like i keep saying, the UK is a democracy and therefore people should be free to speak their mind without fear of prosecution as long as it is a well thought out discussion and not purely based on hatred or used to incite any sort of violence.

no two people are the same and therefore we can not expect everyone to sing from the same hym sheet, thats what freedom is all about.

please understand that i am not condoning racism, i just dont like being preached to when i have enough intelligence, as you do dalglish , to make up your own mind

by **zarababe** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:30 am

... I know u are not a "racist".. I too am not expecting to impose my views on any one.. u brought up the Rivers of Blood reference... and u are aware of the feelings amongst many who live in the former colonies toward the old emperialists.. rightly or wrongly...

.. of course there will always be racists, people will have there prejudices preconcieved perceptions, perceptions based on facts or lies... and so on...

.. the reaction of Dwight Yorke.. cud however spell a sea change in the game... one which fill the pages of many a forum, newspaper and air ways ... as it has done here ... in a civilised way if I do say so myself...

Freedom of speach in action...

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:33 am

zarababe wrote:... I know u are not a "racist".. I too am not expecting to impose my views on any one.. u brought up the Rivers of Blood reference... and u are aware of the feelings amongst many who live in the former colonies toward the old emperialists.. rightly or wrongly...

.. of course there will always be racists, people will have there prejudices preconcieved perceptions, perceptions based on facts or lies... and so on...

.. the reaction of Dwight Yorke.. cud however spell a sea change in the game... one which fill the pages of many a forum, newspaper and air ways ... as it has done here ... in a civilised way if I do say so myself...

Freedom of speach in action...

i repeat what i said earlier, the reactions of Yorke could have made things a lot worse on the actual day. he should have pointed the person out to stewards and police as oppossed to approaching the man and then making chicken gestures.

i am wondering why yorke made these gestures, did he threaten the guy who then would not reslove to violence? is this why yorke made the chicken gesture? did yorke just do this because racism was highlighted again after the England game. i suspect normally yorke would have just turned a blind eye to what was being said. there are corect ways to deal with this and i dont think Yorke acted correctly in his actions either. i think his actions were aimed to escalate the situation rather than diffuse it

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:42 am

yeah, yourke should have run off and not told anyone about teh racist chants... its his fault anyways for being that colour right
(ps - this is MAJOR sarcasm)

by **Woollyback** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:54 am

I'm not a bigot. EVERYONE'S entitled to my opinion

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:20 pm

peewee wrote:
zarababe wrote:... I know u are not a "racist".. I too am not expecting to impose my views on any one.. u brought up the Rivers of Blood reference... and u are aware of the feelings amongst many who live in the former colonies toward the old emperialists.. rightly or wrongly...

.. of course there will always be racists, people will have there prejudices preconcieved perceptions, perceptions based on facts or lies... and so on...

.. the reaction of Dwight Yorke.. cud however spell a sea change in the game... one which fill the pages of many a forum, newspaper and air ways ... as it has done here ... in a civilised way if I do say so myself...

Freedom of speach in action...

i repeat what i said earlier, the reactions of Yorke could have made things a lot worse on the actual day. he should have pointed the person out to stewards and police as oppossed to approaching the man and then making chicken gestures.

i am wondering why yorke made these gestures, did he threaten the guy who then would not reslove to violence? is this why yorke made the chicken gesture? did yorke just do this because racism was highlighted again after the England game. i suspect normally yorke would have just turned a blind eye to what was being said. there are corect ways to deal with this and i dont think Yorke acted correctly in his actions either. i think his actions were aimed to escalate the situation rather than diffuse it

yeh, yorke should of just accepted the racist abuse and got on with it, becuase its perfectly acceptable to be abused because of your colour

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:21 pm

im hoping that was sarcasm as well!

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:But the subject is racism Zbabe, and that is what is being discussed.

I am with Peewee on this I must say.

You mentioned the TV show, what about the MOBO awards, this is another example of PC gone mad. This is short for Music Of Black Origin, and everyone is OK with it. On the flip side, if this was call the MMBWPO awards (Music Made By White People Only) then there would be hell to pay, and it would be branded a disgrace.

My point being that racism is perceived to be the white man against non white's, when it cant possibly be, as this itself is an assumption of white superiority is it not?

the MOBO awards award music from black culture,this is not PC. just like how the kerrang awards celebrate rock music and how smash hits represent pop music, its the same with the mobo's

by **zarababe** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:45 pm

.. it is ineresting that in the past perhaps Dwight Yorke wud have just carried on warming-up and ignoring the chant and gesture... the sickening sounds generated by the Sapnish crowds days earlier.. have clearly had an impact... and no doubt led to Yorke's reaction...

.. Spain was shocking ... and provoked debate on this issue everywhere.. Sepp Blatter has supported the idea of teams walking-off the pitch if such situations occur... respected radio and TV pundit Johnathan Pearce suggested Spains' next game shud be played somewhere in Africa.. "then lets see who has the guts to chant like that "....

.. name calling of whateva kind is wrong... for thatmoment that individual felt saf and confortable to behave like that... not anymore...

..racism as an "ism" has led to many situations that have been detrimental to humanity.. the Holocaust, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, Chechnya, the slaughter of the natives of Australian and America... and so on.. the notion of superiority underlies the existance of many a nation ... it is not far from any of us...

.. but in the field of sport where we are there for a purpose to enjoy, destress (or get more stressed) and let out our frustartions in the pursuit of watching and supporting our teams ... such behaviour spoils the enjoyment for others, is intimidating and uncalled for and frankly .. well out of date...

by **taff** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:53 pm

Agree

I dont like Yorke as a footballer or a person and to be honest the impression I have of him is he did it as its in vogue at the moment but thats not a colour thing just thats what Yorke strikes me as

BUT, let us not forget that it was the Blackburn fan who was doing those gestures and chant so he is in the wrong whoever he is and not Yorke who was the victim

I still dont like him mind you

by **who the hell is diarra** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:05 pm

They should be tarred n feathered

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:37 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:
peewee wrote:
zarababe wrote:... I know u are not a "racist".. I too am not expecting to impose my views on any one.. u brought up the Rivers of Blood reference... and u are aware of the feelings amongst many who live in the former colonies toward the old emperialists.. rightly or wrongly...

.. of course there will always be racists, people will have there prejudices preconcieved perceptions, perceptions based on facts or lies... and so on...

.. the reaction of Dwight Yorke.. cud however spell a sea change in the game... one which fill the pages of many a forum, newspaper and air ways ... as it has done here ... in a civilised way if I do say so myself...

Freedom of speach in action...

i repeat what i said earlier, the reactions of Yorke could have made things a lot worse on the actual day. he should have pointed the person out to stewards and police as oppossed to approaching the man and then making chicken gestures.

i am wondering why yorke made these gestures, did he threaten the guy who then would not reslove to violence? is this why yorke made the chicken gesture? did yorke just do this because racism was highlighted again after the England game. i suspect normally yorke would have just turned a blind eye to what was being said. there are corect ways to deal with this and i dont think Yorke acted correctly in his actions either. i think his actions were aimed to escalate the situation rather than diffuse it

yeh, yorke should of just accepted the racist abuse and got on with it, becuase its perfectly acceptable to be abused because of your colour

read what i wrote again, i never suggested he walked away, i suggested he pointed out the guy to stewards or police.

if you want to get involved in educated discussions please make sure you understand it first

Liverpool FC Forum

Racists fined & banned - Here here for swift justice

Who is online