Liverpool FC Forum

by **zarababe** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:46 am

.. how many white players are abused by monkey chants... and called "white ******"... when being the subject of abuse at a footie match...

This is not an argument about political correctness.. which has gone mad... this is about the behaviour of a guy who "deliberately" racially abused a footballer. Are u saying he did not racillay abuse him... ?

That footballer was incensed and action has been taken.... are u saying that we shud ignore it ?.. is it for us to ignore.. because Dwight cud not ignore it... ?

The issues of Oldham are not the subject of this thread...

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:50 am

But the subject is racism Zbabe, and that is what is being discussed.

I am with Peewee on this I must say.

You mentioned the TV show, what about the MOBO awards, this is another example of PC gone mad. This is short for Music Of Black Origin, and everyone is OK with it. On the flip side, if this was call the MMBWPO awards (Music Made By White People Only) then there would be hell to pay, and it would be branded a disgrace.

My point being that racism is perceived to be the white man against non white's, when it cant possibly be, as this itself is an assumption of white superiority is it not?

by **dawson99** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:07 am

leon, i agree with u, but when it comes to football the racist chants are not being done by football fans, its by racist thugs who want violence. its by neo nazis who are looking for a civil war or something, and is totally wrong.
mobo awards have got nothing to do with it

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:19 am

You are wrong there Dawson. I work in Preston, and a young girl who works for me is related to the lad who was charged for the racial chanting at Dwight Yorke. The girl is half caste, and there are black people in her family. does this sound like a hot bed of neo nazi uprisings, or an isolated incident.

Also you mentioned earlier the people pictured at the Madrid game, and said they where nazi skin headed thugs. Do you know them personally? Is it not racist to call them Nazi's just cause they have skinheads and tattoos ?

by **dawson99** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:24 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:You are wrong there Dawson. I work in Preston, and a young girl who works for me is related to the lad who was charged for the racial chanting at Dwight Yorke. The girl is half caste, and there are black people in her family. does this sound like a hot bed of neo nazi uprisings, or an isolated incident.

Also you mentioned earlier the people pictured at the Madrid game, and said they where nazi skin headed thugs. Do you know them personally? Is it not racist to call them Nazi's just cause they have skinheads and tattoos ?

i called them nazis because the tatoos they had were swastikas and pictures of hitler. Maybe they are not nazis, maybe they like the swastika in an artistic way and they thought the hitler thing was cool... or maybe they are nazis! what do u think?

I do agree tho that the guy who chanted at dwight was not a nazi, just an idiot. but what he did was still incitement and if he had got away with it then the racist thugs (not football fans) would have come to the games in their dirty droves.

by **zarababe** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:38 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:But the subject is racism Zbabe, and that is what is being discussed.

I am with Peewee on this I must say.

You mentioned the TV show, what about the MOBO awards, this is another example of PC gone mad. This is short for Music Of Black Origin, and everyone is OK with it. On the flip side, if this was call the MMBWPO awards (Music Made By White People Only) then there would be hell to pay, and it would be branded a disgrace.

My point being that racism is perceived to be the white man against non white's, when it cant possibly be, as this itself is an assumption of white superiority is it not?

.. I agree that the MOBOS... political correctness "gone mad" etc is well over the top ..

.. The notion that racism is "white on black" abuse etc is a dated and flawed theory .. always has been.. for me .. you will know that recently a young Asian was sent to jail for killing a white school boy.. on the basis that it was an act of murder.. racially motivated.

... the Met Police's "Opertation Tridant" is about "black on black crime".. where black Africans and Caribbeans/ West Indians are killing each other on ethnic grounds as well as others.

Oldham and Blackburn have demonstarted that serious issue of social exclusiona and suspicion can be manifested when two communities, in deprived areas, completely segregated in some parts etc can be at log aheads to the point of explosion.

Local authorities have a community leadership role and are under a positive duty to promote good race relations between all .. this failed in Oldham and Blackburn where the civic authorities failed to see how there actions were compounding and creating explosive tensions along racial lines ... the problems facing young and old citizens of both communities were the same.. the response was unfair on the white community and this is what the government's Social Cohesion agenda recognised.. and is seeking to addess.. building cohesive communities.. that are not suspicious of each other.. supported and treated equitably (the BNP did muscle there way in here using spin to make ordinary white ppl, not racist, willing to vote for them ... hell the message they give in those circumstance we'd all be voting for them.. there not in your face... get rid of these "pakies and niggers" type any more they pay the race card quite subtly by extenuating the fears and worries that exist).

... there is no doubt that the incident in question was a racially motivated act...

If the guy in question has a neice of mixed-heritage... I wud ask why then did he focus on Dwight's colour? why did he then so actively... in front of TV cameras .. do somethimng that wud become the subject of national debate...? and last but not least .. what must his neice be thinking... I know if she had any sense of awareness about her.. she wud at "least" ask.. why did u pick on his color?

by **Woollyback** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:42 pm

Leon & Peewee, sorry to go all PC on you, but "half caste" is an outdated term and has been replaced by the more accurate term "mixed race". :kungfu:

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:47 am

Woollyback wrote:Leon & Peewee, sorry to go all PC on you, but "half caste" is an outdated term and has been replaced by the more accurate term "mixed race".

thanks woolyback, this is exactly what i mean.

zarababe when you talk about the BNP why do you say "muscled in"? you automatically assume that they muscle in, do you know if they had any real policies or are you saying they forced people to vote for them?

if someone calls someone a c@nt then thats the derogative part, if someone calls a black person a black c@nt, the derogative part is still the word c@nt. he is being called a c@nt because he is a c@nt, not because he is black, however this is the racist in the eyes of the law. however the word 'black' is being used in a descriptive sense as opposed to a derogatory sense, just like the terms scouse, fat, welsh, scottish, ginger.

on another point are we all naive enough to think that this is the first time Yorke has been racially abused at a game, however he chose this time to act on it as he is also carried away by the histeria of it all. there could be an argument that his actions could have further escalated any trouble. if this guy was a true racist/nazi whatever term you want to use the surely Yorke put himself in more danger and also ran the risk of escalating larger crowd trouble.

anyway the guy was in the wrong however the fine and punishment were a knee jerk reaction form a magistrate told to clamp down, im sure at some point the same day the same magistrate will have handed down a tiny fine to a persistent offender who will be back before the same court week after week for committing crimes that are more devastating to the victims than a mere monkey motion. Yorke needs to grow up and accept that its just life, there will always be racist people and who is to say that there views are wrong, what makes non racist people right automatically. its a point of view that a person living in a democracy can have and express. the actions against Yorke were of a bigger picture and not just a race issue, however its automatiaclly turned into race.

by **zarababe** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:38 pm

.. apologies for offending u Peewee by using the term "muscling-in"...to describe how the BNP target the areas in question to capture people's votes... I quote again what I said in my post regarding there tactics...

"the BNP did muscle there way in here using spin to make ordinary white ppl, not racists, willing to vote for them ... hell the message they give in those circumstance we'd all be voting for them.. there not in your face... get rid of these "pakies and niggers" type any more they play the race card quite subtly by extenuating the fears and worries that exist.".. naturally all communicated through a glossy pamphlet ... do they have a policy .. yeh repatriation...

...and u say "there will always be racist people and who is to say that there views are wrong, what makes non racist people right automatically. its a point of view that a person living in a democracy can have and express. "

.. whose to say it is wrong or right.. racism is the supsicion or hatred of a people, group or individual,.. based on their color.. ethnicity .. whether they are right or wrong to have these views depends in which context the view point is being "applied"... when it translates in to denying ppl oportunities or mass riots or indeed terror and killings.. it becomes bigger than just a view point.. just as young Asians and blacks display racist tendencies towards whites and each other .. those born and bred in this country are now a match in every respect for the white supremacists.. and so ... its a melting pot that can and does explode...

.. political groups such as the BNP are a reminder to the main parties of the the discontent and apapthy that can exist when they take there eye of the "ball" so-as-to-speak.. but lets not forget that democracy also gave rise to the horror of the Nazi's.. some 50 yrs ago .. so the reaction of the main parties, who stand for fairness and equity (at least in words) is an improtant one in the face of an increase in the extremist vote..

by **Woollyback** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:45 pm

BNP are filth. Preying on the fear and ignorance of disaffected working class white people, they seek to place the blame for society's ills on the local immigrant population. Just like Hitler blamed the Jews for the mess Germany was in during the depression of the 1930's.

Racist thugs, nothing more, nothing less.

by **zarababe** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:44 am

Woolly.. yep Thugs dressed in suits ...

by **zarababe** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am

dawson99 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Also you mentioned earlier the people pictured at the Madrid game, and said they where nazi skin headed thugs. Do you know them personally? Is it not racist to call them Nazi's just cause they have skinheads and tattoos ?

i called them nazis because the tatoos they had were swastikas and pictures of hitler. Maybe they are not nazis, maybe they like the swastika in an artistic way and they thought the hitler thing was cool... or maybe they are nazis! what do u think?[/quote][/quote]
... may be they were in the light brigade Dawson.. whatever gave you the idea they were Nazis... lol

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:37 am

is that not the aim of a political party?, the aim is to get votes by highlighting issues that are relevent to the area where the election is held.

at no point did they ohysicall threaten anyone to vote for them. they got elected purely on the manifesto whicjh has now moved away form all coloureds and is againt the fresh immmigration policies held by the government.

however much you dislike the BNP they are there because thankfully we live in a so called democracy and anyone can stand for election. people voted for them because they wanted to make a point.

by your rhetoric any council or govenment seat won has been won by muscling in, this includes labour, conservitive etc. maybe we should just do away with the politcal process and just allow candidates to stand who you agree with.

people criticised Enoch Powell years ago, i am not saying i agree with his 'rivers of blood' speech but go and read it, its very interesting just how right he was.

by **Dalglish** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:53 am

So what exactly are you saying Peewee ? As an Ex Pat living in another country (as i assume you are) what are your opinions on the multi cultured aspect in England ?

by **zarababe** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:03 am

peewee wrote:is that not the aim of a political party?, the aim is to get votes by highlighting issues that are relevent to the area where the election is held.

at no point did they ohysicall threaten anyone to vote for them. they got elected purely on the manifesto whicjh has now moved away form all coloureds and is againt the fresh immmigration policies held by the government.

however much you dislike the BNP they are there because thankfully we live in a so called democracy and anyone can stand for election. people voted for them because they wanted to make a point.

by your rhetoric any council or govenment seat won has been won by muscling in, this includes labour, conservitive etc. maybe we should just do away with the politcal process and just allow candidates to stand who you agree with.

people criticised Enoch Powell years ago, i am not saying i agree with his 'rivers of blood' speech but go and read it, its very interesting just how right he was.

.. you are arguing on a point that I have already answered..

... spin.. suits.. manifestos.. not in the face racism... it doesn't change the underlying facts.. the BNP's agenda is racist ...

.. and what exactly have I said to make u think that I have to be agreed with .. ?

.. as for the rivers of blood... many a river has been laden by the actions of the ruling whites in many countries of the world... that is really a weak argument...

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