Houllier
by Benny The Noon » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:41 pm
Your just too funny - is wenger in the top tree ? He hasn't won anything for 6 years now is it . Im only bringing up the previous manager to counter your constant bashing of him when your trying to justify hodgson - he won titles in Sweden - not exactly major titles Mick - rafa took on two of the biggest clubs in world football and beat them . Rafa's record is better than hodgsons and the trophies prove that . Less of the c.rap about going to support another team - you then become guilty of everything you accuse people off . I'm not plotting anything - I'm certainly not thou going to stand by while you constantly try to rewrite history and try and demean someones previous record in their career just to try and glorify someone who has an inferior record . Rafa got offered one of hhe best jobs in club football because he is one of the best in Europe - he has the results to prove that and they are certainly better than some two bit league in Scandinavia . Everyone here supports he current manager but most are trying to do it without demeaning the previous manager . You sadly can't do that .
- Benny The Noon
by bigmick » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:42 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:hodgson - he won titles in Sweden - not exactly major titles Mick -
They are in Sweden, in fact they don't come any more major over there
Last edited by bigmick on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stop it mate, seriously by Benny The Noon » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:46 pm
Sweden is a major league title now is it ? Where does it rank ? On par with the prem , serie a or La liga ( the three leagues which house all the best footballers in the world ) or on par with Holland , Portugal or maybe Scotland , Belguim , Norway and Denmark - which group would you put Sweden into ?
- Benny The Noon
by dawson99 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:54 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:Sweden is a major league title now is it ? Where does it rank ? On par with the prem , serie a or La liga ( the three leagues which house all the best footballers in the world ) or on par with Holland , Portugal or maybe Scotland , Belguim , Norway and Denmark - which group would you put Sweden into ?
I think hes saying it is in Sweden. I think hes trying to say something positive about our manager... maybe you should give it a go
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:02 pm
dawson99 wrote:Benny The Noon wrote:Sweden is a major league title now is it ? Where does it rank ? On par with the prem , serie a or La liga ( the three leagues which house all the best footballers in the world ) or on par with Holland , Portugal or maybe Scotland , Belguim , Norway and Denmark - which group would you put Sweden into ?
I think hes saying it is in Sweden. I think hes trying to say something positive about our manager... maybe you should give it a go
Ill be positive when i see something to be positive mate
- Benny The Noon
by RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:05 pm
bigmick wrote:In answer to Reds question, I was happy to proven correct that we'd be able to attract a manager who is top class when we procured the services of one Royston Hodgson. As I've said many times, I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that he will immediately be an improvement on what he took over from. So in that sense alone if his predessor was anywhere near as good as we were led to believe for many years, Roy must indeed be World Class.
As far as the Champions League question is concerned, I think Red is either getting himself confused or I didn't explain myself very well. For managers, the lack of Champions League football wouldn't necessarily be a barrier to entry. In some cases it may even be a plus as they can spend the next three seasons trying to get us back in, knowing that if they manage it they'll be a bit of a hero. For players (and this is where we've lost each other) the equation is obviously different. Top players with International ambitions want to play in the Champions League. That's where the bigger money and prestige is, and once Roy's predessor had failed to get us anywhere near qualification it was always going to be hard to both recruit and keep players. Of course not only did we not qualify, but we missed it by a mile (finished 7th in fact) so Roy hasn't even got the facility of saying we are just about certainties next season either.
No, Roy has to rely on his man management techniques and powers of persuasion. Fortunately, he appears to have both of those in abundance
I generally as a rule don't get confused mate but nevertheless I stand corrected if it was just managers you were referring to Mick , I also agree that Roy has done well with his first tentative steps as manager of Liverpool Fc ,but unfortunately in this material world of ours a managers class is gauged on the Trophies you collect along the way ...and anything else can easily be dismissed as immaterial until our silverware is added to ........
However I am a staunch advocate in the belief a manager needs time .... Roy Hodgson is as I have already stated a manager with an astute football brain his football philosophies are heralded all over europe the man is said to be a professor of football and I think he will eventually do fine if given a huge amount of patience from the fans ,because lets face it he may need it mate .....
Last edited by RED BEERGOGGLES on Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:04 pm
Anyway back to the original topic
Why Houllier is right for Aston Villa
Phil McNulty | 11:03 UK time, Tuesday, 7 September 2010
General Charles Krulak called on all his years as a US Marine commander to defend Gerard Houllier - and this was even before the Frenchman walked through the doors at Villa Park as the club's new boss.
Krulak's colourful intervention on behalf of the man he has already christened "Mr H" was, however, a clear indicator that Houllier's expected announcement as Aston Villa manager has not exactly been a cause for rejoicing among the regulars.
And yet Krulak, who revels in his image as a straight shooter in his dealings with Villa supporters as owner Randy Lerner's right-hand man, hit the nail on the head when he said: "Whatever anyone thinks of him, he deserves respect from the fans of this club."
Houllier does not only deserve respect as a person, he has a record in football that also deserves respect - and this is why Lerner is in the process of making a sound choice by attempting to appoint the former Liverpool manager as successor to Martin O'Neill.
Out of those linked with the job, such as Alan Curbishley, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Ronald Koeman and Villa reserve team coach Kevin MacDonald, Houllier's record of success in England, as well as his experience and vast contacts, make him the outstanding candidate from those Lerner has targeted.
I should declare some past history here. I got to know Houllier very well during his time at Liverpool and respected his occasionally complex but always fiercely driven and totally professional approach and personality.
And, with his appointment expected to be officially confirmed on Thursday, it is worth setting the record straight as history is in danger of delivering a flawed judgement on Houllier's time at Liverpool.
In the desire to paint him as a failure at Anfield, it is worth recalling he rebuilt the entire culture and philosophy of the club after the excess - and in a football context pure waste - of the so-called 'Spice Boys' era. How could a team of such natural talents only have a Coca Cola Cup win against Bolton in 1995 to show for their gifts?
This was acknowledged by then chief executive Rick Parry on the day Houllier left Anfield in May 2004, when he said: "Gerard changed things off the pitch as well as on it, bringing back both our pride and self-respect and instilling discipline and professionalism throughout the club.".
Houllier knew a fresh approach was needed and, after the inevitable break-up of his arranged footballing marriage with Roy Evans, he provided it.
Houllier chats to Thierry Henry
Houllier is currently the national technical director of French football
Out went those he regarded as having outlived their usefulness, such as Paul Ince, in came a new, more pragmatic approach - and one that brought serious success back to Liverpool. He was accused of building a functional as opposed to flamboyant team but the ends justified his means.
Houllier's transfer record is often criticised and even he would struggle to make a case to defend the failures of players such as El-Hadji Diouf, Salif Diao and Bruno Cheyrou at Liverpool. Indeed, those three players are often paraded as the symbols of the beginning of the end of the Houllier era at Anfield - perhaps with some justification.
But the critics may care to remember masterstrokes, such as the signing of Sami Hyypia, a snip at £2.5m from Willem II (helped by a glowing reference from a Dutch television cameraman on a visit to Anfield), who went on to become one of the finest players and servants of the modern Liverpool era.
Stephane Henchoz was another inspirational addition to the spine of the team Houllier rebuilt. Then there was Didi Hamman, goalkeeper Jerzy Dudek and Gary McAllister.
If Houllier can recapture some of that magic in the market - and his knowledge of players has always been encyclopaedic - then the worries of the Villa faithful might just disappear.
Jamie Carragher's admiration for Houllier was evident in his presence alongside current boss Roy Hodgson on the Liverpool bench for his testimonial against Everton at Anfield on Saturday. Carragher, regarded by most as a manager of the future, revealed he would hope to model his approach on Houllier, such was his influence over his career.
And Steven Gerrard, the man Houllier appointed as Liverpool captain, also spoke glowingly about him while on England duty in Basle on Monday.
Danny Murphy was another who saw a career on the drift revitalised by Houllier to such an extent that he still flourishes for Fulham today. It is too easy to recall Houllier's failures while conveniently forgetting his successes.
Those players will also remember how Houllier fought back from the brink of death and major heart surgery in 2001 to return to Liverpool and resume his duties. How easy it would have been for him to walk away to a quiet life in France. Instead, he accepted he could not live without the game.
On another significant operational note, he also oversaw the complete overhaul of Liverpool's Melwood training base into the ulta-modern complex it is today - even helping design dressing rooms without pillars so no-one could "hide". Houllier was happy to conduct tours personally for journalists, such was his pride in the new home for his "family", as he referred to the club and his players.
And last but not least, he dealt in a currency Liverpool understands very well - success. Liverpool fans, even those who choose not to regard his reign with affection these days, will never forget 2001 and the treble capture of the Worthington Cup against Birmingham City, the FA Cup against Arsenal and the Uefa Cup against Alaves in Dortmund.
Again, Houllier's detractors pointed at "the Lucky Treble" - and admittedly the victory against Arsenal almost ranked as grand larceny when Michael Owen won an FA Cup final dominated overwhelmingly by Arsene Wenger's team - but you do not have success like that on the back of a hot streak of good fortune.
Houllier enjoys FA Cup success with Liverpool in 2001
Houllier enjoys FA Cup success with Liverpool in 2001
He added the Worthington Cup again in 2003 with Liverpool's win against Manchester United in Cardiff but there was a growing sense his tenure had lost momentum after six years in charge by the time he made an amicable departure from Anfield at the end of the following season.
Houllier had become overburdened by pressure and criticism in his final season. Too many signings, such as Harry Kewell, did not come off and Liverpool were too far adrift of the title challengers for him to survive.
Kewell's free transfer arrival from Leeds United in the face of competition from Manchester United and Arsenal was greeted with the same elation as Joe Cole's recent signing by Roy Hodgson. Instead, the Australian was a desperate failure at Anfield.
This does not mean Houllier himself should be regarded as a failure. Many of the same players won the Champions League against AC Milan the following year, although no-one can deny Rafael Benitez also brilliantly plotted a course through that campaign.
And there is even a case to be made that he left a better side for Benitez than Benitez subsequently left for Hodgson.
Villa fans might show some understandable concern that these achievements were a lifetime ago in Premier League terms but Houllier has hardly been a man with his finger away from football's pulse.
He won the French title twice at Lyon before stepping down in May 2007 and has since travelled all over the world watching the game in his role with the French Football Federation.
Houllier is in good health and his interest in Villa confirms he retains the desire to succeed in club management even though he has just celebrated his 63rd birthday. His great friends Hodgson and England coach Fabio Capello are 63 and 64 respectively and no-one can question their enduring passion for the game.
He will bring meticulous planning and an almost slavish attention to the details of tactics and preparation to Villa Park should he arrive. After once asking Houllier to help with a rundown of teams for the 2002 World Cup in Japan, I arrived at his Melwood office to find him armed with pages of notes detailing his thoughts on the qualities or otherwise of each side in the tournament. Lack of preparation was not an option.
Villa's players will want for nothing in the pursuit of success, although they must buy into Houllier's team ethic and approach or there will be no future for them.
Houllier must also be in full control of football matters. Sitting in the directors' box watching others exert authority in the dugout will not be for him.
He has had plenty of approaches in recent years. He has been linked with jobs at club and international level and remains a hugely respected figure within football's worldwide community. Houllier always wanted a club that could satisfy his ambitions, which are aimed firmly at success, and he clearly believes Villa is a club that can match those aspirations.
An insight into Houllier's approach to football came when he was advised by some to retire from football after his serious illness, responding: "Football is my life and my oxygen and I don't want to live without it."
Now it looks like his next mission will be to breathe fresh life into Aston Villa.
Why Houllier is right for Aston Villa
Phil McNulty | 11:03 UK time, Tuesday, 7 September 2010
General Charles Krulak called on all his years as a US Marine commander to defend Gerard Houllier - and this was even before the Frenchman walked through the doors at Villa Park as the club's new boss.
Krulak's colourful intervention on behalf of the man he has already christened "Mr H" was, however, a clear indicator that Houllier's expected announcement as Aston Villa manager has not exactly been a cause for rejoicing among the regulars.
And yet Krulak, who revels in his image as a straight shooter in his dealings with Villa supporters as owner Randy Lerner's right-hand man, hit the nail on the head when he said: "Whatever anyone thinks of him, he deserves respect from the fans of this club."
Houllier does not only deserve respect as a person, he has a record in football that also deserves respect - and this is why Lerner is in the process of making a sound choice by attempting to appoint the former Liverpool manager as successor to Martin O'Neill.
Out of those linked with the job, such as Alan Curbishley, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Ronald Koeman and Villa reserve team coach Kevin MacDonald, Houllier's record of success in England, as well as his experience and vast contacts, make him the outstanding candidate from those Lerner has targeted.
I should declare some past history here. I got to know Houllier very well during his time at Liverpool and respected his occasionally complex but always fiercely driven and totally professional approach and personality.
And, with his appointment expected to be officially confirmed on Thursday, it is worth setting the record straight as history is in danger of delivering a flawed judgement on Houllier's time at Liverpool.
In the desire to paint him as a failure at Anfield, it is worth recalling he rebuilt the entire culture and philosophy of the club after the excess - and in a football context pure waste - of the so-called 'Spice Boys' era. How could a team of such natural talents only have a Coca Cola Cup win against Bolton in 1995 to show for their gifts?
This was acknowledged by then chief executive Rick Parry on the day Houllier left Anfield in May 2004, when he said: "Gerard changed things off the pitch as well as on it, bringing back both our pride and self-respect and instilling discipline and professionalism throughout the club.".
Houllier knew a fresh approach was needed and, after the inevitable break-up of his arranged footballing marriage with Roy Evans, he provided it.
Houllier chats to Thierry Henry
Houllier is currently the national technical director of French football
Out went those he regarded as having outlived their usefulness, such as Paul Ince, in came a new, more pragmatic approach - and one that brought serious success back to Liverpool. He was accused of building a functional as opposed to flamboyant team but the ends justified his means.
Houllier's transfer record is often criticised and even he would struggle to make a case to defend the failures of players such as El-Hadji Diouf, Salif Diao and Bruno Cheyrou at Liverpool. Indeed, those three players are often paraded as the symbols of the beginning of the end of the Houllier era at Anfield - perhaps with some justification.
But the critics may care to remember masterstrokes, such as the signing of Sami Hyypia, a snip at £2.5m from Willem II (helped by a glowing reference from a Dutch television cameraman on a visit to Anfield), who went on to become one of the finest players and servants of the modern Liverpool era.
Stephane Henchoz was another inspirational addition to the spine of the team Houllier rebuilt. Then there was Didi Hamman, goalkeeper Jerzy Dudek and Gary McAllister.
If Houllier can recapture some of that magic in the market - and his knowledge of players has always been encyclopaedic - then the worries of the Villa faithful might just disappear.
Jamie Carragher's admiration for Houllier was evident in his presence alongside current boss Roy Hodgson on the Liverpool bench for his testimonial against Everton at Anfield on Saturday. Carragher, regarded by most as a manager of the future, revealed he would hope to model his approach on Houllier, such was his influence over his career.
And Steven Gerrard, the man Houllier appointed as Liverpool captain, also spoke glowingly about him while on England duty in Basle on Monday.
Danny Murphy was another who saw a career on the drift revitalised by Houllier to such an extent that he still flourishes for Fulham today. It is too easy to recall Houllier's failures while conveniently forgetting his successes.
Those players will also remember how Houllier fought back from the brink of death and major heart surgery in 2001 to return to Liverpool and resume his duties. How easy it would have been for him to walk away to a quiet life in France. Instead, he accepted he could not live without the game.
On another significant operational note, he also oversaw the complete overhaul of Liverpool's Melwood training base into the ulta-modern complex it is today - even helping design dressing rooms without pillars so no-one could "hide". Houllier was happy to conduct tours personally for journalists, such was his pride in the new home for his "family", as he referred to the club and his players.
And last but not least, he dealt in a currency Liverpool understands very well - success. Liverpool fans, even those who choose not to regard his reign with affection these days, will never forget 2001 and the treble capture of the Worthington Cup against Birmingham City, the FA Cup against Arsenal and the Uefa Cup against Alaves in Dortmund.
Again, Houllier's detractors pointed at "the Lucky Treble" - and admittedly the victory against Arsenal almost ranked as grand larceny when Michael Owen won an FA Cup final dominated overwhelmingly by Arsene Wenger's team - but you do not have success like that on the back of a hot streak of good fortune.
Houllier enjoys FA Cup success with Liverpool in 2001
Houllier enjoys FA Cup success with Liverpool in 2001
He added the Worthington Cup again in 2003 with Liverpool's win against Manchester United in Cardiff but there was a growing sense his tenure had lost momentum after six years in charge by the time he made an amicable departure from Anfield at the end of the following season.
Houllier had become overburdened by pressure and criticism in his final season. Too many signings, such as Harry Kewell, did not come off and Liverpool were too far adrift of the title challengers for him to survive.
Kewell's free transfer arrival from Leeds United in the face of competition from Manchester United and Arsenal was greeted with the same elation as Joe Cole's recent signing by Roy Hodgson. Instead, the Australian was a desperate failure at Anfield.
This does not mean Houllier himself should be regarded as a failure. Many of the same players won the Champions League against AC Milan the following year, although no-one can deny Rafael Benitez also brilliantly plotted a course through that campaign.
And there is even a case to be made that he left a better side for Benitez than Benitez subsequently left for Hodgson.
Villa fans might show some understandable concern that these achievements were a lifetime ago in Premier League terms but Houllier has hardly been a man with his finger away from football's pulse.
He won the French title twice at Lyon before stepping down in May 2007 and has since travelled all over the world watching the game in his role with the French Football Federation.
Houllier is in good health and his interest in Villa confirms he retains the desire to succeed in club management even though he has just celebrated his 63rd birthday. His great friends Hodgson and England coach Fabio Capello are 63 and 64 respectively and no-one can question their enduring passion for the game.
He will bring meticulous planning and an almost slavish attention to the details of tactics and preparation to Villa Park should he arrive. After once asking Houllier to help with a rundown of teams for the 2002 World Cup in Japan, I arrived at his Melwood office to find him armed with pages of notes detailing his thoughts on the qualities or otherwise of each side in the tournament. Lack of preparation was not an option.
Villa's players will want for nothing in the pursuit of success, although they must buy into Houllier's team ethic and approach or there will be no future for them.
Houllier must also be in full control of football matters. Sitting in the directors' box watching others exert authority in the dugout will not be for him.
He has had plenty of approaches in recent years. He has been linked with jobs at club and international level and remains a hugely respected figure within football's worldwide community. Houllier always wanted a club that could satisfy his ambitions, which are aimed firmly at success, and he clearly believes Villa is a club that can match those aspirations.
An insight into Houllier's approach to football came when he was advised by some to retire from football after his serious illness, responding: "Football is my life and my oxygen and I don't want to live without it."
Now it looks like his next mission will be to breathe fresh life into Aston Villa.
- Benny The Noon
by Bermenstein » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:34 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:.....An insight into Houllier's approach to football came when he was advised by some to retire from football after his serious illness, responding: "Football is my life and my oxygen and I don't want to live without it."
Now it looks like his next mission will be to breathe fresh life into Aston Villa.
Really hope it happens.
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by shabelle50 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:21 pm
The unique differences are a) Houllier didn't finish second 7 points off the title his team under Thompson did Benitez finished second 4 points off the title b) Houllier became the first modern day Liverpool boss to be sacked within 15 months of winning a major trophy.
Why would you need to tell a newspaper that it was your team who won in Istanbul? The same squad who finished with 60 points 12 months earlier? Good luck at Villa Gerard I think you'll need it......
Why would you need to tell a newspaper that it was your team who won in Istanbul? The same squad who finished with 60 points 12 months earlier? Good luck at Villa Gerard I think you'll need it......
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by Kukilon » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 pm
I also want to end it with that I hope everything goes well for Roy and our club. Hopefully RBS takes the club from the yanks and sells us for cheap to us or some rich dude. He has done an ok job so far under these dire circumstances. My ranting was about Houllier.
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by Ciggy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:47 am
I have no hatred what so ever for Houllier and I dont see any of the current Rafa haters giving Gerard down the banks either, which I find strange the hatred that some have for Rafa is obsessive for a man that gave us the best night of some of our lives people have very short memories.
And if we are going by how managers are rated Rafa & Houllier are better managers than Roy is Roy has to prove he is better than them. Its borderline ridiculas and OTT behaviour from some quarters, like Roy is some sort of God he's not so behave yourselves.
Would Roy walk into the Man U job? No !!!
Man City needed a manager did they bang down Fulhams door? No !!!
Chelsea have changed managers more than Real Madrid have did Roman get on the blower to Al Fayed and say Hey mate can we have Roy? No !!!
Arsenal havent won anything for 6 years have the Arsenal board been fed up with the sexy football Arsenal play and want Roy for a change? The answer is NO !!! once again.
I just think the hatred that some people had for Rafa is clouding their judgement on this one, and anyone is better than Rafa sort of attitude.
I dont think Roy should be Liverpools manager and Ive said that from the start, it has nothing to do with the Rafa being sacked, it has everything to do with hiring a world class manager and thats something we dont have.
If Roy goes on and wins us the league, the CL or what ever I will personally go to the man and appoligise for ever doubting him.
But he hasnt won nothing yet and the football so far has been dire, so hold your horses for the time being because this OTT praise looks pathetic seriously and in anycase it might come back to haunt you's.
Good luck at Villa Ged you are one fine gentleman
And if we are going by how managers are rated Rafa & Houllier are better managers than Roy is Roy has to prove he is better than them. Its borderline ridiculas and OTT behaviour from some quarters, like Roy is some sort of God he's not so behave yourselves.
Would Roy walk into the Man U job? No !!!
Man City needed a manager did they bang down Fulhams door? No !!!
Chelsea have changed managers more than Real Madrid have did Roman get on the blower to Al Fayed and say Hey mate can we have Roy? No !!!
Arsenal havent won anything for 6 years have the Arsenal board been fed up with the sexy football Arsenal play and want Roy for a change? The answer is NO !!! once again.
I just think the hatred that some people had for Rafa is clouding their judgement on this one, and anyone is better than Rafa sort of attitude.
I dont think Roy should be Liverpools manager and Ive said that from the start, it has nothing to do with the Rafa being sacked, it has everything to do with hiring a world class manager and thats something we dont have.
If Roy goes on and wins us the league, the CL or what ever I will personally go to the man and appoligise for ever doubting him.
But he hasnt won nothing yet and the football so far has been dire, so hold your horses for the time being because this OTT praise looks pathetic seriously and in anycase it might come back to haunt you's.
Good luck at Villa Ged you are one fine gentleman
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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by SouthCoastShankly » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:58 am
shabelle50 wrote:The unique differences are a) Houllier didn't finish second 7 points off the title his team under Thompson did Benitez finished second 4 points off the title b) Houllier became the first modern day Liverpool boss to be sacked within 15 months of winning a major trophy.
Why would you need to tell a newspaper that it was your team who won in Istanbul? The same squad who finished with 60 points 12 months earlier? Good luck at Villa Gerard I think you'll need it......
Wrong Houllier wasn't sacked, in fact Liverpool FC have never sacked a manager.
Houllier (and Benitez) left of mutual consent.
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