Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:10 pm

He wasnt the worst player on the pitch last night not by a long shot.
But like some have said his contribution for a central midfielder is nowhere near enough.
He doesnt offer anything going forwards and gives away too many free kicks.
He is a poor mans mascherano and should be a back up if the argentine is unavilable.
The main reason we have had this shocker of a season is Rafa playing him so frequently, i have no doubts at all about that.

by **Sir Roger** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:18 pm

Agreed
Insua is by far the worst player weve got at the moment.
He gets raped every match and his penalty foul last night was not only needless it basically killed us

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:23 pm

Boocity wrote:
Waldo wrote:Stan Colleymore often blows a lot of hot air but he made a very valid point whilst presenting on Channel 5 last night.

Question: Does he rates Lucas and does he think he has a future at Liverpool?
Answer: If we see Lucas play in the advanced midfield role for 10-15 games then I think we will see the real Lucas and the one who has won prestigious awards on his some country for being one of the best players. However if we see Rafa continually play him in a defensive MF role then he will continue to do an OK job without being outstanding.

Lucas was also interviewed and he sounded like a Rafa robot with quotes like "we work hard" "we continue to focus on the next game" "we have kwwwaality" etc etc

I think we need to let the shackles of this guy and get him on the field in his favoured (and best position).

Lucas does not have to play so deep and defensive, do you think Rafa bans him from going forward?

NO!

Simple question here: has anyone actually seen him play for Brazil, and Brazil under-21's? From a lot of the posts here, I'm guessing no because Lucas' role for us is almost exactly identical to the one he plays at an international level. He's a box-to-box defensive midfielder that can get forward if instructed to, and he has done for us on occasion, so what's the problem? Not scoring enough goals? Ah, that would be it, wouldn't it? Fact is, if we didn't have Mascherano in our side, we'd be singing Lucas' praises for being the only half decent defensive mid we actually have. The fact that it's often not neccassary to play him with Mascherano is a debate in itself.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Kerry07 wrote:I'm sorry i cant handle him (lucas) being in our team. The word "invisible" to describe him tonight was from the commentator on 5 live.

The damage he does being in THE single most important position slap bang in the center where all the play goes through...is devastating. You can get away with a c'rap winger (Ray Parlour) or c'rap full back (Phil Neville) and still be successful as they ain't central to the play... a central midfielder is. Its the SINGLE most influential position on the field, the link between defence and attack, the orchestrator of play... and we have a brazilian carthorse in there.

We were outstanding at the weekend with incisive, crisp, creative passing and excellent service to the attack for once... when lucas on the bench. We dont play football when he is on the field.. and 17 losses with him later its infuriating.

Have to agree.

About an hour into the game I was beginning to wonder if it was Lucas and not Babel who had been sent off as it was so long since i'd heard his name mentioned. Sods law, 30 seconds later as we finally strung 4 passes together Lucas finally got a mention, you guessed it, he gave the ball to the opposition.

Don't want to single the fella out, we were all poor last night, but as this is the Lucas "thread" I'll just add that once again imo he was a complete waste of a shirt.

I'm constantly suprised at how many members leap to his defence, I'm sure he's a nice lad, but lets face it, if he left tomorrow would we miss him ?

:no

by **Sir Roger** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:53 pm

We would miss him as much as we missed him when he hasnt played
Not at all

by **Waldo** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:32 pm

Boocity wrote:
Waldo wrote:Stan Colleymore often blows a lot of hot air but he made a very valid point whilst presenting on Channel 5 last night.

Question: Does he rates Lucas and does he think he has a future at Liverpool?
Answer: If we see Lucas play in the advanced midfield role for 10-15 games then I think we will see the real Lucas and the one who has won prestigious awards on his some country for being one of the best players. However if we see Rafa continually play him in a defensive MF role then he will continue to do an OK job without being outstanding.

Lucas was also interviewed and he sounded like a Rafa robot with quotes like "we work hard" "we continue to focus on the next game" "we have kwwwaality" etc etc

I think we need to let the shackles of this guy and get him on the field in his favoured (and best position).

Lucas does not have to play so deep and defensive, do you think Rafa bans him from going forward?

Yes, he is totally restricted in the role he plays alongside Mascherano. It is clearly not his natural position and therefore he is, in my opinion, wasted as a defensive midfielder.

by **Waldo** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:36 pm

only me wrote:
fivecups wrote:
Boocity wrote:
Waldo wrote:Stan Colleymore often blows a lot of hot air but he made a very valid point whilst presenting on Channel 5 last night.

Question: Does he rates Lucas and does he think he has a future at Liverpool?
Answer: If we see Lucas play in the advanced midfield role for 10-15 games then I think we will see the real Lucas and the one who has won prestigious awards on his some country for being one of the best players. However if we see Rafa continually play him in a defensive MF role then he will continue to do an OK job without being outstanding.

Lucas was also interviewed and he sounded like a Rafa robot with quotes like "we work hard" "we continue to focus on the next game" "we have kwwwaality" etc etc

I think we need to let the shackles of this guy and get him on the field in his favoured (and best position).

Lucas does not have to play so deep and defensive, do you think Rafa bans him from going forward?

Possibly.

Colleymore is correct as to not playing Lucas in his natural position which should be on the Bench at Leeds!

How many failed performances do people (and manager) need to see in order to conclude his is just no good for Liverpool??

If he played in a more advanced position would his passing abilities improve? will he not lose the ball carelessly? will he be more quicker or skillfull?

How long will you be waiting for this dead cat to bounce?

I think in a more advanced role where he was more about attacking than defending you would see a better (and more confident) Lucas who would improve on the ball and offer us an anwful lot more than he does at present.

by **Waldo** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:43 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Boocity wrote:
Waldo wrote:Stan Colleymore often blows a lot of hot air but he made a very valid point whilst presenting on Channel 5 last night.

Question: Does he rates Lucas and does he think he has a future at Liverpool?
Answer: If we see Lucas play in the advanced midfield role for 10-15 games then I think we will see the real Lucas and the one who has won prestigious awards on his some country for being one of the best players. However if we see Rafa continually play him in a defensive MF role then he will continue to do an OK job without being outstanding.

Lucas was also interviewed and he sounded like a Rafa robot with quotes like "we work hard" "we continue to focus on the next game" "we have kwwwaality" etc etc

I think we need to let the shackles of this guy and get him on the field in his favoured (and best position).

Lucas does not have to play so deep and defensive, do you think Rafa bans him from going forward?

NO!

Simple question here: has anyone actually seen him play for Brazil, and Brazil under-21's? From a lot of the posts here, I'm guessing no because Lucas' role for us is almost exactly identical to the one he plays at an international level. He's a box-to-box defensive midfielder that can get forward if instructed to, and he has done for us on occasion, so what's the problem? Not scoring enough goals? Ah, that would be it, wouldn't it? Fact is, if we didn't have Mascherano in our side, we'd be singing Lucas' praises for being the only half decent defensive mid we actually have. The fact that it's often not neccassary to play him with Mascherano is a debate in itself.

If you watch the interview with Lucas he clearly states that he plays a different role/type of game at Liverpool than he does for the national team...!

In the 4-2-3-1 formation that Rafa deploys I do think Lucas is restricted to when he can go forward and for that reason Rafa is limiting his abilities as a footballer.

We all know Rafa is a strict formation guy who doesn't tend to tinker with the formation during games, swap wingers or change things about. Lucas is employed as a spoiler in front of the back four. I agree that we do not need 2 of them in the team at once so I would be more in favour of a 4-1-4-1 formation with Lucas (in the absence of Aquaman) sharing the workload with Gerrard to get forward. I honestly think we would see a better player if he played in that role.

I am not for one minute saying he is a world beater but he has a lot more to offer than what we have seen this season.

by **Zidane** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:07 pm

Very very frustrating to watch him play at times.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:20 pm

what kills me is the fact Rafa honestly believes that Lucas is good enough as a direct replacement for Alonso.....

by **tubby** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:22 pm

Waldo wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Boocity wrote:
Waldo wrote:Stan Colleymore often blows a lot of hot air but he made a very valid point whilst presenting on Channel 5 last night.

Question: Does he rates Lucas and does he think he has a future at Liverpool?
Answer: If we see Lucas play in the advanced midfield role for 10-15 games then I think we will see the real Lucas and the one who has won prestigious awards on his some country for being one of the best players. However if we see Rafa continually play him in a defensive MF role then he will continue to do an OK job without being outstanding.

Lucas was also interviewed and he sounded like a Rafa robot with quotes like "we work hard" "we continue to focus on the next game" "we have kwwwaality" etc etc

I think we need to let the shackles of this guy and get him on the field in his favoured (and best position).

Lucas does not have to play so deep and defensive, do you think Rafa bans him from going forward?

NO!

Simple question here: has anyone actually seen him play for Brazil, and Brazil under-21's? From a lot of the posts here, I'm guessing no because Lucas' role for us is almost exactly identical to the one he plays at an international level. He's a box-to-box defensive midfielder that can get forward if instructed to, and he has done for us on occasion, so what's the problem? Not scoring enough goals? Ah, that would be it, wouldn't it? Fact is, if we didn't have Mascherano in our side, we'd be singing Lucas' praises for being the only half decent defensive mid we actually have. The fact that it's often not neccassary to play him with Mascherano is a debate in itself.

If you watch the interview with Lucas he clearly states that he plays a different role/type of game at Liverpool than he does for the national team...!

In the 4-2-3-1 formation that Rafa deploys I do think Lucas is restricted to when he can go forward and for that reason Rafa is limiting his abilities as a footballer.

We all know Rafa is a strict formation guy who doesn't tend to tinker with the formation during games, swap wingers or change things about. Lucas is employed as a spoiler in front of the back four. I agree that we do not need 2 of them in the team at once so I would be more in favour of a 4-1-4-1 formation with Lucas (in the absence of Aquaman) sharing the workload with Gerrard to get forward. I honestly think we would see a better player if he played in that role.

I am not for one minute saying he is a world beater but he has a lot more to offer than what we have seen this season.

Agreed.

It is fustrating watching so many players play out of position. Babel, Maxi, Lucas and Kuyt...

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:23 pm

You have to wonder what Rafa said to him before the Lille match at home. In the first half of that game I thought I was watching Kaka.

To be fair to the lad, we shouldn't need him in any of our remaining matches with possibly the exception of Chelsea at home. If we can't beat Fulham, West Ham, Burnley and Hull without him then there's something seriously wrong.

He's still been one of our most consistent performers though, which says a lot about how below par other players have been for large parts of the season.

by **bigmick** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:29 pm

stmichael wrote:He's still been one of our most consistent performers though,

He's been consistent alright, you've got to give him that. His performances have verged from anonymous on an average day, to a liability on a poor day, through to largely ineffective on a good day.

There's very little difference between how he performs from week to week in truth, he simply isn't good enough. My suspicion is that if you played me in central midfield for Liverpool my performances would be very consistent too. I wouldn't be winning player of the year, but I'd be consistent. Does it mean anything though, that is the question.

by **tubby** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:31 pm

How can you say that though Mick when he has rarely been played in his correct position?

by **bigmick** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:38 pm

bavlondon wrote:How can you say that though Mick when he has rarely been played in his correct position?

How can I say what? that he isn't good enough? Well without going into a long winded explanation as to why he isn't good enough, I'll just say that you only have to watch him for five minutes to know it is so.

As for his "best" position, I'm guessing you're buying into the "but he's actually an attacking midfielder" angle. You may well be right, he may well be better in that role. To play where Gerrard plays behind Torres though, you have to score and make goals, lots of them. Lampard played there for years, Fabregas does it now, Giggs these days for Man Utd and Ronaldo before him. Now at the level Lucas is trying to play, he wouldn't either create or score goals as an attacking midfielder because he isn't good enough to do it. If he were playing for Barnsley or somebody like that he'd probably get 20 goals a season, get bought by Blackburn for 3 million quid and then settle into being an attacking midfielder in a bottom third team. That's probably about his level.

I would put your question back to you bav, how can you say that he isn't "not good enough"? He's played about 30 matches ths season and barely made an assist or scored a goal or made a meaningful contribution. How much evidence do you need?

If you fill your team with average players, you will get average results.

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