Fixing the un-fixable - Where the fook now?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby tonyeh » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:40 pm

Thinkpad wrote:It is his way or no way...

That's the way it should be for a manager of a football team. He has to be allowed the leeway to manage.

The problem is Benitez just isn't that good a manager (regardless of all the excuses he has made on his behalf) and the game is up. One could say it's been up for a long while now.
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Postby Scottbot » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:02 pm

Judge wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Please keep the Rafa out stuff in the other threads coz it completely derails everything.

If I was Rafa

so rafa ''in'' stuff is ok ??

Whether the discussion is 'in' or 'out' it seems to derail every thread dude.
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Postby Scottbot » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:06 pm

tommycockles wrote:
alxy wrote:Also, what is up with our wing play? Did the players specifically get instructions from Rafa to keep cutting in? Against Reading, I cannot remember one decent cross from our wingers. All I remember is Benni and Kuyt and later Babel keep cutting in and congesting the middle. Why can't we get decent wingers who stretch the defense? We just seem to keep on trying to play it through the middle. No variations at all.

This is exactly correct; against Reading (and in most games) we never stretch the play. Everyone gets the ball then tries to pass it through the middle. We never whip these balls across the area to trouble their defence, although this is probably because there's no-one in there to receive the ball as Gerrard and Torres are having to come back to get the ball.

I think most teams have sussed onto the fact that if you give our wide men a few yards they will always turn inside rather than have a run at the opposing FB/winger. So the ball gets worked back inside to Lucas and Masch who aren't quite sure what to do with it. Teams are actually showing the ball inside (it's usually the other way around!) and daring us to beat them through the middle.
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Postby Sir Roger » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:21 pm

Scottbot wrote:
tommycockles wrote:
alxy wrote:Also, what is up with our wing play? Did the players specifically get instructions from Rafa to keep cutting in? Against Reading, I cannot remember one decent cross from our wingers. All I remember is Benni and Kuyt and later Babel keep cutting in and congesting the middle. Why can't we get decent wingers who stretch the defense? We just seem to keep on trying to play it through the middle. No variations at all.

This is exactly correct; against Reading (and in most games) we never stretch the play. Everyone gets the ball then tries to pass it through the middle. We never whip these balls across the area to trouble their defence, although this is probably because there's no-one in there to receive the ball as Gerrard and Torres are having to come back to get the ball.

I think most teams have sussed onto the fact that if you give our wide men a few yards they will always turn inside rather than have a run at the opposing FB/winger. So the ball gets worked back inside to Lucas and Masch who aren't quite sure what to do with it. Teams are actually showing the ball inside (it's usually the other way around!) and daring us to beat them through the middle.

You only have to watch us once to suss out how we play and what our weakness is. Passing the ball sideways and backwards is not creative but gives the opportunity to say we 'controlled' the game. What pi'sses me off most at the moment is the last minute goals gifted to teams. When you are winning by one goal the last thing you want to do is invite the opposition to bombard you until they score. Except this is exactly what has been happening. Reading and Stoke were examples of this type of schoolboy error play:
Hoofing the ball out hoping that it wont come back.
More and more of our men back to help defend the onslaught brought on because we have no-one up who will take the ball into their half and give some respite to our area.
No-one able to suss out that if the ball is in the oppositions half it is very unlikely that they will score against us.
Instead we have panic stations and pathetic challenges. Or even worse, ball watching and players free to poke the ball into our net.
It is so frustrating to watch this horror show unfold and not be able to do a thing to stop it. Surely Rafa must sit with the team and watch the video of the match to point these things out in order to stop them happening? From what Ive seen the video player must be broke?
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Postby REDTILLDEAD » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:23 pm

Rafa and his bad tactics will finally be expossed tomorrow night.....and the final nail will be driven into his coffin....R.I.P. Rafa....you gave it your best shot but it just was not good enough.....so Adios Amigo. :bowdown
"THERE ARE TWO GREAT FOOTBALL TEAMS IN LIVERPOOL"
  LIVERPOOL..........................AND LIVERPOOL RESERVES!
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Postby JC_81 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:34 pm

Good thread Scott, the 'get Rafa out' chat is getting boring.  Let's focus on what we can do to dig ourselves out of this sh.it. 

For me, things to avoid are...

1) Aurelio playing anywhere other than left back.

2) Lucas/Mascherano as a pair

3) Ngog playing from the start as a lone striker - he can't do it

4) Carragher at right back

5)  Skrtel on the pitch at all

I'd try something like....


                          Reina

Darby       Carragher      Agger          Aurelio

             Mascherano    Aquilani

Maxi                   Pacheco              Riera

                           Kuyt



For all his lack of technique and pace, at least Dirk can hold the ball up, which is something Nogog can't do.  I'd stick him up top.  We badly need Riera's width, something that was a major feature of our play last season. 

We've seen nothing of Aquilani as a creative force so far, but I'd persevere with him and ban him from playing one-touch passes - just get your fu.cking foot on the ball!!  I'd love to see Pacheco in the hole, but I'll bet my :censored: Benitez will play Lucas/Mascherano with Aquilani in front tomorrow night.  Maxi has to get some game time, and we've no time to introduce him from the bench twenty times to get him acclimatised like we've done with Aquilani.


With Aurelio fit again we need to drop Insua, he'll get torn to shreds against Spurs in terms of pace.  Get Carra and Agger in the middle - they're marginally our most mobile pair in the slowest centre back quartet in the league, so we'll need them against Spurs and I also reckon they're our best pair.

Above all we need to show the fight we did against Stoke, the only positive we had in the game.
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Postby Scottbot » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:46 am

john craig wrote:Good thread Scott, the 'get Rafa out' chat is getting boring.  Let's focus on what we can do to dig ourselves out of this sh.it. 

For me, things to avoid are...

1) Aurelio playing anywhere other than left back.

2) Lucas/Mascherano as a pair

3) Ngog playing from the start as a lone striker - he can't do it

4) Carragher at right back

5)  Skrtel on the pitch at all

I'd try something like....


                          Reina

Darby       Carragher      Agger          Aurelio

             Mascherano    Aquilani

Maxi                   Pacheco              Riera

                           Kuyt



For all his lack of technique and pace, at least Dirk can hold the ball up, which is something Nogog can't do.  I'd stick him up top.  We badly need Riera's width, something that was a major feature of our play last season. 

We've seen nothing of Aquilani as a creative force so far, but I'd persevere with him and ban him from playing one-touch passes - just get your fu.cking foot on the ball!!  I'd love to see Pacheco in the hole, but I'll bet my :censored: Benitez will play Lucas/Mascherano with Aquilani in front tomorrow night.  Maxi has to get some game time, and we've no time to introduce him from the bench twenty times to get him acclimatised like we've done with Aquilani.


With Aurelio fit again we need to drop Insua, he'll get torn to shreds against Spurs in terms of pace.  Get Carra and Agger in the middle - they're marginally our most mobile pair in the slowest centre back quartet in the league, so we'll need them against Spurs and I also reckon they're our best pair.

Above all we need to show the fight we did against Stoke, the only positive we had in the game.

Good post mate + I agree with that team except for Kuyt on his own upfront. I'd rather have Ngog if i'm honest, it's by default but I simply cannot stand Kuyt as a lone frontman. He can play in a two but on his own he still ends up coming back a million deep to receive it. Whilst Ngog is not much better he does offer a bit (not a lot) more of a threat playing on the shoulder and his height means defences are more likely to push up a touch. In truth, neither of them is suited to the role.
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Postby alxy » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:18 am

It definitely is make or break time. Could it turn out to be like Houllier? Or Ferguson? Bear in mind that Fergie himself was on the verge of the sack if he had lost that Nott Forest game about 25 years back (wow! it has been that long!). But he didn't, came back stronger and now look where Manu are. Hopefully things go similar way for Rafa. Suddenly the Spurs game is where we turn the season around, and things go better from there. After all, as it has been pointed out so many times, the team has hardly changed. Even last season, we were without Stevie G, Torres and even Carragher at one time or another, but we still won games. Difference was the confidence level I guess. If somehow Rafa can turn the mood around in the squad, we have a fighting chance. Otherwise forget top 4, we'd be lucky with top 6.
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