Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:28 pm

Some good responses and good points raised there.

A few things I'll pick up on...

I honestly don't think Agger/Skrtel are the future for centre half. Both good players but not top players. Skrtel will not be a top player because he doesn't have the ability. Agger will not be a top player because he'll never be fit long enough to keep developing his game, although if he wasn't as injury prone I'd say he had potential to be a top player. Interestingly BOTH are currently injured, which gives me great concern, especially given our 4th, 5th and 6th choice options for CB have gone (Hyypia, Arbeloa and I supposed Hobbs, respectively). There is literally nobody else apart from youngsters.

I agree with Scottbot's point that Carra needs someone better in the air beside him, and just maybe he'd start to look a better player again. We have never really replaced Hyypia in that respect.

Personally I don't think we HAVE to win the league this season, but given Carra and Gerrards' advancing age it may be the best chance we have for a while. I do think we at least have to challenge for it.

The last thing I'll mention is the point our mystery poster made as relayed by Igor - if we don't win it and we need some rebuilding next summer, do we let Benitez do it? Very interesting one. A lot will depend on how well we do this season. If there are signs of us going backwards rather than forwards then there's a real possibility that the pressure will be back on the manager. Should be an interesting season.

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:54 pm

I think we NEED to win the league for more reasons than the above mentioned...
Of course, Carra and Gerrard wont be around for much longer as many pointed out, same with the likes of Aurelio and Kuyt but it goes beyond that for me...
In terms of the clubs finances, success on the pitch is a MUST in the next year or two... The stadium, merchandise sales, sponsorship deals, the two owners fcking off, and hence our financial stability all depend on the level of success we have on the pitch.. Winning the league would not onluy go a long way in ensuring the financial well-being of the club, it would also allow us to build in terms of long term plans... All this, reflects on the amount of money we'd have available for transfers (replacing the players who are getting older.. Gerrard, Carra..etc), and the overall appeal the club has to potential transfer targets...

I think Gerrard still has about 2 seasons in him playing the role he does now, after which we'll probably need to start moving him back gradually... carra to me is at his final years as a starting player... still much better than anything we have but we can definitely improve on what we have if the funds are available..

When it comes to Rafa.. i dont think it will be the case of 'win the league or you are out'... it will definitely raise even more dissenting voices and i’d expect concerns as to whether hes capable of winning the league to be at all time highs, but i don’t think it would ultimately lead to his sacking..
Guess it all depends on how far off the eventual winners we end up when it comes to that... To me, its a more a case of whether we’r actually improving on the previous year or not.. In his 5 years, i haven’t seen the continuous improvement many seem to go on about... started off well with the CL then the Fa the next year, then nothing the following 3 years... In terms of league standings we went from 5th to 3rd, then 3rd, 4th, 2nd ... Hopefully we go one better next season but if not, then a long hard look will have to be taken to determine whether we’re actually getting any closer to winning the league or not...

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:11 pm

Hmm, let's give it until November/December at least before drawing any conclusions on whether or not the league is ours for the taking, eh?

by **Number 9** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:17 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Hmm, let's give it until November/December at least before drawing any conclusions on whether or not the league is ours for the taking, eh?

I dont agree we need to wait that long...its a massive season for us and a massive chance!
Yes it does not usually really take shape until around Xmas

You cant physically lift the trophy till the end...but you can loose your chance of doing so in the first month or two!
Every game this season is HUGE...I think we will know in the first 8 or 10 games if we have a chance!
Simply put if we are still drawing with silly teams in those first games...we can forget it!

Personally i think this is our year though,but I always do!

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:26 pm

Number 9 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Hmm, let's give it until November/December at least before drawing any conclusions on whether or not the league is ours for the taking, eh?

I dont agree we need to wait that long...its a massive season for us and a massive chance!
Yes it does not usually really take shape until around Xmas

You cant physically lift the trophy till the end...but you can loose your chance of doing so in the first month or two!
Every game this season is HUGE...I think we will know in the first 8 or 10 games if we have a chance!
Simply put if we are still drawing with silly teams in those first games...we can forget it!

Personally i think this is our year though,but I always do!

Yeah, that's my point exactly.

by **The Fabiomenal 1** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:00 pm

This season represents a fantastic occasion for Liverpool! I think the level of the big threes Manchester, Chelsea and Liverpool is almost the same. Citiziens are possible outsiders.
I consider Chelsea the best team in England actually because is the same of the last season with the adds of Carlo Ancelotti since the begin (I think he's similar to Hiddink), Zhirkov and probably Pirlo.
Manchester United is very less strong without Ronaldo and Tevez. Yes, the best player in absolute with Messi and one of the most appreciated striker of the world! Rooney is great but I think Owen and Bebatov are only good players. They're the second and the third forwards in Ferguson's hierarchy, not the third and the fourth.
The gap between Liverpool and Manchester this season is nullified in my opinion. Reds should just buy a valuable substitute of Fernando Torres and replace worthily Alonso if went away. If Liverpool did this it'd be at the par of Manchester and Chelsea after some years that it has been inferior as technical level.

by **Highland Red** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:22 pm

I don't think we should be in too much of a rush to usher out the likes of Carra with replacements like Agger.

Jamie may well be getting older but is by no means on the scrap heap. He was never the fastest player in the league and won't really get any slower than he already is. He is a fantastic reader of the game and has the knack of being where it counts 99% of the time.

Agger, while accomplished, never seems to be completely happy as a centre-back. I always think he could benefit from playing further forward, maybe as a defensive midfielder in front of the back line. He likes to go forwards with the ball at his feet far more than say, Carra or Skrtel.

Carra has all the professionalism and attributes to do a 'Maldini' as long as he takes care of himself.

Liverpool need 11 Carraghers in the team. Let's not be in rush to usher out the original.

by **stmichael** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:12 pm

We'll never have a better chance of winning it, and I include last season in that.

As it stands, this is the most open Premiership for years. United are considerably weaker having lost Ronaldo and Tevez. Their success last season (whatever anyone tells you) was based on a really solid defence and Ronaldo's goals (he scored more winning goals than any other player in the League). I don't rate their central midfield at all. What do Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher actually produce?

Chelsea are still extremely solid and as it stands are title favourites imo. Holding onto Terry was obviously key and if Drogba is firing then they'll always be a threat. They have the best squad imo. The only question mark is about the manager and how quickly he'll settle in. Personally I think he'd rather win the CL than the Premiership.

Arsenal are just an unknown quantity. Have some fantastically skillful players but still lack a commanding Goalkeeper, Centre half and Holding Midfielder (Vieira is not the answer).

City obviously are the big movers but I can't see how Hughes can keep everyone happy, especially with them having less games to play as they're not in Europe. I still wouldn't put any money on them breaking into the top 4.

Obviously a lot depends on our main players staying injury free. We have, on their day, the best two players in the entire League imo and if they can start more than 14 games together as they did last season, we'll have a great chance imo.

by **aCe'** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:37 pm

stmichael wrote:We'll never have a better chance of winning it, and I include last season in that.

As it stands, this is the most open Premiership for years. United are considerably weaker having lost Ronaldo and Tevez. Their success last season (whatever anyone tells you) was based on a really solid defence and Ronaldo's goals (he scored more winning goals than any other player in the League). I don't rate their central midfield at all. What do Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher actually produce?

Chelsea are still extremely solid and as it stands are title favourites imo. Holding onto Terry was obviously key and if Drogba is firing then they'll always be a threat. They have the best squad imo. The only question mark is about the manager and how quickly he'll settle in. Personally I think he'd rather win the CL than the Premiership.

Arsenal are just an unknown quantity. Have some fantastically skillful players but still lack a commanding Goalkeeper, Centre half and Holding Midfielder (Vieira is not the answer).

City obviously are the big movers but I can't see how Hughes can keep everyone happy, especially with them having less games to play as they're not in Europe. I still wouldn't put any money on them breaking into the top 4.

Obviously a lot depends on our main players staying injury free. We have, on their day, the best two players in the entire League imo and if they can start more than 14 games together as they did last season, we'll have a great chance imo.

i agree ... but the point about this being a better chance only stands if you compare our chances before this season begins to our chances BEFORE LAST SEASON BEGAN...

last season we saw Utd struggling for points early on, we saw Chelsea throwing away many many points early on, we saw Arsenal struggling for any sort of results early on and we saw Liverpool get off to a flying start...

but still, agree with the assessments you made there regarding this season, if we can play like we showed we can last season , and if Chelsea, ManUtd, and Arsenal struggle like they did last season and like many expect them to this season, then we have got to be seen as major title contenders... my main worry is Chelsea too... they have the best squad and they have their best players back... Essien, Joe Cole and Drogba all starting the season is a major boost for them and if Ancelotti turns out to be anywhere near as good as Hiddink was then they have got to be seen as the team to beat imo... Personally, i dont think he will be, or atleast i hope he wont...

by **XSD** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:43 pm

Liverpool really really needs to win trophies now.

We can't forget that no matter how much we love and support the club, we cannot guarantee its stability whilst we don't own it. History can also become irrelevent if it isn't built on.

We don't have rich owners, and we don't have a large ground. The only thing that makes us a top 4 club is players like Reina, Gerrard and Torres and the manager Benitez. We need to consider that when Gerrard is past it, if Benitez leaves and the Spanish players follow we are simply going to slide into the UEFA cup or even midtable, then possibly face financial crisis. We don't have the stadium capacity to generate a huge profit without ripping off our fans (£36+ is already too much for a ticket imo), we are fortunate to have penetrated markets in the States and Asia though.

We can't have a new stadium until we've sorted out our finances, and that requires something to happen with the owners. The only way to keep Liverpool at the top until that happens is to win the premier league. This will generate lots more money and help keep our best players at the club.

So, yes, this is a must win season. Utd have got worse, Chelsea are about the same, Arsenal have weakened. Man City will need one more season and next summer's transfers before they become one of the most major forces. It has to be 2009/10!!

by **only me** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:55 pm

Realisticly was can't and we won't win ,The pre season turns out to be a real disappointment and offers little to no hope of repeating last season performance.

We had minor weaknesses which needed immediate action but almost nothing has been done ,our RB/LB were moderate at best we got a potentially better RB ,our middfield lacked creativity we gave/giving our best passer (Alonso) with no sub in place ,still missing another quality striker (too much weight to put on Torres) ,and our subs are just par subs no creativity no strength no imagination coming from the bench...

by **heimdall** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:57 pm

by **GYBS** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:05 pm

Simple answer - No we dont have to win the league - we have to challenge for it once again .

by **lakes10** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:14 pm

i fear this season, the team dont look ready, the players are mixed up some are unhappy, for some it might be their last chance to win the prem.

I dont think we have a team that can last a whole years football in the top 4.

what i also feel is that we could get very lucky and that the smaller teams seem to be getting better at turning over the top teams and i thonk if we just make sure we best all the teams outside the top 4 then we have a great chanbce to win the prem.

if we dont end up in to 2 them there is a need to change hoe the team is run, this year Rafa has been given a free run on how the team is set up and run, and what players he has, so far we have only got one player that is new to the club that i feel is a good buy, on the same not we have lost 2 good players.

by **Madmax** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 pm

With the current squad we wont win the league but until we get good replacement maybe a good chance... Anyhow as for the question do we have to win the league? Feck yeah we do been feckin waiting for soo long!

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Do we have to win the league this season?

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