Liverpool FC Forum

by **devaney** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:38 am

The team formation used recently enjoyed a lot of success in the second half of last season except for Babel playing left midfield so is it really a shock that we have started to rip a few teams apart. All the messing about with Keane in the first half of the season was a £20m problem that I for one am pleased has been dispensed with.

I have previously argued that Gerrard's best position is playing just off Torres in a second striker roll and many of you including BigMick have suggested that Gerrard's best position is central midfield. I stand by my original opinion - what about you?

by **GYBS** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:54 am

Where he is playing now - a free roaming role in that space that masher and xabi leaves - he is able to feed off torres feed off the wide players and drop to pick the ball up off xabi and masher as well .

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:08 am

Steve's best position is the position he's playing at the minute.

Right Midfielder? 25 goals a season

Behind Torres? Deadly partnership, goals, and his first hat trick of the career

Partnership with Alonso? He's very strong too.

Actually Gerrard is the only player I've known who he is a world class player in several positions. For instance you couldn't play Zidane on the right, but you can play Gerrard on the right and he'll still bang a lot of goals.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:09 am

I think Gerrard is effective on the left, right, in centre midfield, attacking midfield, full-back or whereever asked to play.

Where is his best position for the team? In 4-5-1 it is playing off Torres, also gets the best out of Torres IMO. Gerrard needs just three more goals to produce his best goals return in a season, this is already his best season in the Premiership with 13 goals which bests his previous best of 11 last season. In 5.5 seasons under Houllier Gerrard scored 20 Premiership goals, Gerrard has already scored 24 Premiership goals in his last two Premiership campaigns including this - with eight games to go!

Where is Gerrard's best position for Gerrard? It's hard to argue the role he plays at the moment isn't producing his best football. He can perform any role, he clearly has a great eye for goal so attacking midfield might be the obvious best position. He is a good tackler, but I wouldn't say that was as much a strength as his scoring. When playing deeper does he not overdo the hollywood passes like he does for England? I reckon Capello will play him off Rooney, if he doesn't then I'd seriously question his judgement. Big problem for England is fat frank likes to be the goalscoring midfield general and the midfield ain't big enough for him and anyone remotely big.

Maybe here's a key question : who is better - fat frank or Gerrard? In any role other than the one Gerrard now plays I reckon it would be close, but there's nothing fat frank can't do that Gerrard can and with improved goalscoring afforded him by a more attacking role, he must win that hands down. I saw a bit of SSN this morning, had someone off Daily Mail I think it was, and he was asked who for POTY. He mentioned Vidic (blotted copybook) and Giggs, but then reckoned it would be Gerrard on current form - says it all for me. Would he get POTY in any other role? Probably not. That said, those voting will be swayed by goals and such awards are nothing to get excited about, except those who love to see their club's players in World XIs and meaningless lists and win polls etc.

by **devaney** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:09 am

Just can't understand why Rafa tried to fix something that wasn't broken? Lets face it Rafa has a habit of frustrating the life out of the supporters but on this occasion I think his decision to play Keane up front and Gerrard in central midfield may just cost us the Premiership.

I know Torres has been injured a lot but I think Babel may have been a better replacement with Gerrard playing just off him. I am convinced that Babel is more of a central striker if he is ever to be a real success at Liverpool.

I do however accept that hindsight is an exact science.

by **tubby** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:10 am

Sabre wrote:Steve's best position is the position he's playing at the minute.

Right Midfielder? 25 goals a season

Behind Torres? Deadly partnership, goals, and his first hat trick of the career

Partnership with Alonso? He's very strong too.

Actually Gerrard is the only player I've known who he is a world class player in several positions. For instance you couldn't play Zidane on the right, but you can play Gerrard on the right and he'll still bang a lot of goals.

He got a hatrick against TNS in a CL qualifier a few years ago. But that was his first hatrick in the league yes.

His best position is definatley where is playing now, just behind Torres.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:16 am

devaney wrote:I know Torres has been injured a lot but I think Babel may have been a better replacement with Gerrard playing just off him. I am convinced that Babel is more of a central striker if he is ever to be a real success at Liverpool.

I do however accept that hindsight is an exact science.

I think Babel as striker might have worked better than Kuyt, but it would have been a gamble and I think Rafa prefers reliable in key positions - hence why mr dependable filled in when Keane was no longer an option.

I'm not that sure Babel would have done a brilliant job though, his shooting is not great at times and his teamplay and other key skills are maybe not up to it. Can you see Babel and Gerrard linking up anywhere near as well as Torres and Gerrard or even Gerrard and Kuyt?

Best players for each position were filled on Sunday, the least certain of those would probably be CB Skrtel as some feel Agger and Hyypia both have cases (myself included) Is Babel our second best striker? If he is then it is mainly by default of no stronger candidates, and that Kuyt is now so competent in his new role that he can struggle to revert to striker.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:19 am

devaney wrote:Just can't understand why Rafa tried to fix something that wasn't broken? Lets face it Rafa has a habit of frustrating the life out of the supporters but on this occasion I think his decision to play Keane up front and Gerrard in central midfield may just cost us the Premiership.

Is this correct mate? (my memory is not my forte)

We started the league strongly playing Keane upfront and Gerrard played very well alongside Alonso and we were on top.

The little "debacle" that made us drop a lot of points while Manchester were winning has been after Keane leaving?

If any, I think the reason that might cost the league has been both Torres and Gerrards' injuries.

by **devaney** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:48 am

Sabre wrote:
devaney wrote:Just can't understand why Rafa tried to fix something that wasn't broken? Lets face it Rafa has a habit of frustrating the life out of the supporters but on this occasion I think his decision to play Keane up front and Gerrard in central midfield may just cost us the Premiership.

Is this correct mate? (my memory is not my forte)

We started the league strongly playing Keane upfront and Gerrard played very well alongside Alonso and we were on top.

The little "debacle" that made us drop a lot of points while Manchester were winning has been after Keane leaving?

If any, I think the reason that might cost the league has been both Torres and Gerrards' injuries.

I accept that we started the league strongly but apart from our home win against Man U and the away win against Chelsea we looked anything but convincing and that's my real criticism. We now look convincing.

As I said hindsight is an exact science and lets face it Mascha wasn't available at the beginning of the season and Gerrard certainly seems happier with him behind him.

by **tubby** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:08 am

Im happy for Masch winning an Olympic gold medal but surley he would have preferred a Premiership winners medal.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:51 am

Doesn't have one. You could play him anywhere and he'd still be the best player on the pitch. That's the beauty of the man.

Don't tie him down from his natural instncts unless you have to. When he can roam and go where he likes he destroys teams.

by **Alex G.** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:59 am

Gerrard and Torres make better each other in their current positions. Fernando upfront on his own and Stevie behind of him. He´s scored 12 goals at the moment.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:10 pm

devaney wrote:I accept that we started the league strongly but apart from our home win against Man U and the away win against Chelsea we looked anything but convincing and that's my real criticism. We now look convincing.

As I said hindsight is an exact science and lets face it Mascha wasn't available at the beginning of the season and Gerrard certainly seems happier with him behind him.

If hindsight is such an exact science, why are you overlooking some key factors?

We look more convincing now because we have near enough our best 11 fit and firing at the same time. In contrast, in the first half of the season we missed Mascherano, Babel and Lucas for the first 4 games due to the Olympics, with Masch's form suffering thereafter (along with a few niggling injuries). We missed Gerrard for key games (Villa, Man U, the draw with Fulham). Torres missed a hatful of games due to two prolonged stays on the sidelines and in between he was rusty. Skrtel missed nearly 3 months of action, Aurelio was in and out of the team due to injury etc. Frankly, I'm shocked we had the success we did before Christmas given all that and I'm not surprised that we looked less convincing than we'd prefer at times.

As for messing with the 4-2-3-1 to accommodate Keane, I don't think that's how it worked. We played 4-4-2 for the first four games while Masch was in Beijing (Standard Liege twice, Sunderland and Boro), which I think can be excused (what are you going to do, bench the new signing?). Gerrard and Torres were missing for the Man U game so a Keane and Kuyt pairing was probably the best we could muster (I'm completely unconvinced by Babel and/or Ngog up top). Didn't turn out too badly eh?

We beat PSV and Everton handily despite playing 4-4-2 with Keane and Torres. The one real blip was the Stoke match at home, where we played 4-4-2 with Keane and Torres up top, with Gerrard and Alonso in behind. But, I can understand leaving Mascherano out at home against the likes of Stoke, particularly when he was off-colour during the first part of the season.

After that, Torres got injured and then all bets were off in terms of the formation and personal deployed. Rafa experimented because he had to--no one can play Torres' role in the 4-2-3-1 and certainly not Babel. Keane might not have settled effectively and he proved that lone striker in a 4-2-3-1 was not his bag either but I don't begrudge Rafa for playing him up top in a variety of ways while Torres was out. He was still more of a goal threat than Babe, Kuyt and Ngog, IMHO.

Anyway, this all a slight tangent from the original question.

As far as Gerrard's best position, I like him just where he is at the moment because he can get the best out of Torres while also offering a hell of an attacking threat himself. There's no better strike partnership in the league.

by **RobinHood6969** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:17 pm

Stevie behind Nando :love:

But boy he can play anywhere on the pitch except may be Goal Keeping such is his talent :bowdown

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:23 pm

It's hardly coincidence that since we've sold Keane, we've hit our best form.

No matter what Keane's contribution was in any match he was always the talking point. Rafa had to field endless questions about him and it was draining for the manager and player, who both deserved better.

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