Liverpool FC Forum

banana wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

banana wrote:Keane has to go.

Negatives
He is weak
soft,
slow,
no upper body strenght,
no airial presence,
no penetration,
no goal treath,
can't shoot


Positives
He has a good understanding of the game,
his runs (although he makes few and makes them slow) are intelligent,
he is british (CHL quota)





This is not enough for me. Bye bye Keane.

Seriously, do stop talking bollox.

To reiterate how much sh*t you just wrote, I've highlighted something in bold, not to be controversial of course.

I will enlighten you kiddo since your knowledge is so limited.


CHL RULES

No club may have more than 25 players on List A during the season. As a
minimum, places 20 to 25 on List A (six places) are reserved exclusively for
“locally trained players” and no club may have more than three “associationtrained
players” listed in places 20 to 25 on List A. List A must specify the six
players who qualify as being “locally trained”, as well as whether they are
“club-trained” or “association-trained”. The possible combinations that enable
clubs to comply with the List A requirements are set out in Annex VIII.


A “locally trained player” is either a “club-trained player” or an “associationtrained
player”.

A “club-trained player” is a player who – irrespective of his nationality and
age – has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or
not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match
of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match
of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months between the age of
15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the
end of the season during which the player turns 21).

An “association-trained player” is a player who – irrespective of his nationality
and age – has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the
same national association as that of his current club for a period, continuous
or not, of three entire seasons or of 36 months between the age of 15 (or the
24
start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of
the season during which the player turns 21).

If a club has fewer than six locally trained players in its squad (i.e. in places
20 to 25 on List A), then the maximum number of players on List A is
reduced accordingly. Furthermore, if a club lists a player in places 20 to 25
on List A who does not fulfil the conditions set out in this article, that player is
not eligible to participate for the club in the UEFA club competition(s) in
question and the club is unable to replace him on List A.

devaney wrote:If he  is the only other decent striker that we have got apart from Torres then we are in serious trouble. The way Keane played yesterday was at times bordering on the amateurish. I suspect he would have missed the Torres tap in or failed to be in the right position!

You say change the record but you go on and on about his confidence which bemuses me to the point of bewilderment. Keane has featured very heavily this season in Liverpool's programme and understandably on many occasions, ignoring West Brom when Carson should have done a lot better with both goals, he has been substituted because as you say he is a striker and he wasn't scoring.

Do you think Keane's performances inspire confidence in the rest of the team? When Torres came on he did a couple of things that probably had the other players thinking thank goodness he is back - HE INSPIRES CONFIDENCE! I still hope that Robbie can sort himself out  but at the moment I certainly would not have him as a first choice to play along side Torres - leave that to Gerrard - there is an understanding that should be developed and one that could win Liverpool the Premiership. Try Robbie on the right - swop him around with Kuyt but don't put him in a position where he jeopardises the Gerrad Torres relationship that would just be foolhardy.

The goals against Arsenal and Bolton were useful but if he can't accept that Rafa is not convinced by his overall performance then he is in the wrong place and if you think that Rafa's understandable tactics with Robbie have been wrong then you probably are as well !! The reality is that Keane is being subjected to Premiership chasing pressure and similar to Babel he does not appear to be up to the job.

To be quite honest, what you've just posted is absoloute rubbish.

Barring Torres, and assuming you want to play Gerrard in midfield, which is something Benitez doesn't seem to want to do then he is the only other decent striker we have.

Ngog is quite frankly a joke and Dirk Kuyt couldn't bring down a bag of cement.

Clearly the reason it bemuses you is your lack of understanding of knowledge of both, people in general and the psychological side of the sport.

All people are different, all people react differently to certain circumstances, everyone is an individual, what might work for one person won't work for another. Obviously that is a difficult thing to understand and couldn't possibly be correct, but generally thats how I see it.

Now having read certain autobiographies of players, and playing the game myself you also start to understand certain things from their point of view. When players are dragged off nearly every match, despite scoring a goal or two or playing well, or when they are dragged off for a poor player or are taken off when they aren't always the worst player on the pitch it has a massive negative effect on their confidence. When they score goals and are dropped when all they want to do and play well it frustrates and again destroys confidence. When players lack confidence they don't perform to their maximum. All of this is obviously really hard to understand. Add to that a pressure to do well and clearly not being allowed to develop any sort of rhythm and again it will destroy any confidence the player has.

The fact is, I'm not going to sit here and write a massive post on it, because I'm 100% sure I'll be wasting my time as you'll dismiss it and go back to the simplistic view that players should be happy playing 60 minutes every week and if they don't like it they can leave. Keane has been dragged off in nearly every game regardless of scoring or playing well, he's been dropped after scoring goals, he's being taken off for like Ngog, he's watching the useless Kuyt play every minute of every match...

Its becoming a bit of a joke.

The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

As for the "Gerrard-Torres" partnership... Gerrard's best as a central midfielder, not a striker. I'd much prefere an Alonso-Gerrard partnership with a Torres-Keane partnership upfront.

Fo Dne wrote:

devaney wrote:The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

Fo Dne wrote:

As for the "Gerrard-Torres" partnership... Gerrard's best as a central midfielder, not a striker. I'd much prefere an Alonso-Gerrard partnership with a Torres-Keane partnership upfront.

I heard you loud and clear what you prefer (not only once, I may add). But when I said "Gerrard-Torres" partnership, I was merely commenting on what I think Rafa prefers.

We will have to wait and see.. So don't laugh first mate..

s@int wrote:I think most people now if they were honest would be willing to sell Keane for £20million and try again with another striker. The fact is we would get nothing like £20million for him if we sold him, so maybe the best we can do is persevere with him and use him as best we can. Now hopefully with Torres back we can look forward to a regular supply of goals again and the pressure may be lifted slightly from Keane's shoulders.

Fo Dne wrote:

devaney wrote:If he  is the only other decent striker that we have got apart from Torres then we are in serious trouble. The way Keane played yesterday was at times bordering on the amateurish. I suspect he would have missed the Torres tap in or failed to be in the right position!

You say change the record but you go on and on about his confidence which bemuses me to the point of bewilderment. Keane has featured very heavily this season in Liverpool's programme and understandably on many occasions, ignoring West Brom when Carson should have done a lot better with both goals, he has been substituted because as you say he is a striker and he wasn't scoring.

Do you think Keane's performances inspire confidence in the rest of the team? When Torres came on he did a couple of things that probably had the other players thinking thank goodness he is back - HE INSPIRES CONFIDENCE! I still hope that Robbie can sort himself out  but at the moment I certainly would not have him as a first choice to play along side Torres - leave that to Gerrard - there is an understanding that should be developed and one that could win Liverpool the Premiership. Try Robbie on the right - swop him around with Kuyt but don't put him in a position where he jeopardises the Gerrad Torres relationship that would just be foolhardy.

The goals against Arsenal and Bolton were useful but if he can't accept that Rafa is not convinced by his overall performance then he is in the wrong place and if you think that Rafa's understandable tactics with Robbie have been wrong then you probably are as well !! The reality is that Keane is being subjected to Premiership chasing pressure and similar to Babel he does not appear to be up to the job.

To be quite honest, what you've just posted is absoloute rubbish.

Barring Torres, and assuming you want to play Gerrard in midfield, which is something Benitez doesn't seem to want to do then he is the only other decent striker we have.

Ngog is quite frankly a joke and Dirk Kuyt couldn't bring down a bag of cement.

Clearly the reason it bemuses you is your lack of understanding of knowledge of both, people in general and the psychological side of the sport.

All people are different, all people react differently to certain circumstances, everyone is an individual, what might work for one person won't work for another. Obviously that is a difficult thing to understand and couldn't possibly be correct, but generally thats how I see it.

Now having read certain autobiographies of players, and playing the game myself you also start to understand certain things from their point of view. When players are dragged off nearly every match, despite scoring a goal or two or playing well, or when they are dragged off for a poor player or are taken off when they aren't always the worst player on the pitch it has a massive negative effect on their confidence. When they score goals and are dropped when all they want to do and play well it frustrates and again destroys confidence. When players lack confidence they don't perform to their maximum. All of this is obviously really hard to understand. Add to that a pressure to do well and clearly not being allowed to develop any sort of rhythm and again it will destroy any confidence the player has.

The fact is, I'm not going to sit here and write a massive post on it, because I'm 100% sure I'll be wasting my time as you'll dismiss it and go back to the simplistic view that players should be happy playing 60 minutes every week and if they don't like it they can leave. Keane has been dragged off in nearly every game regardless of scoring or playing well, he's been dropped after scoring goals, he's being taken off for like Ngog, he's watching the useless Kuyt play every minute of every match...

Its becoming a bit of a joke.

The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

As for the "Gerrard-Torres" partnership... Gerrard's best as a central midfielder, not a striker. I'd much prefere an Alonso-Gerrard partnership with a Torres-Keane partnership upfront.

bavlondon wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

devaney wrote:The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

Proven at Spurs sure but not here. He misses too many gaping chances.

Emerald Red wrote:

bavlondon wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

devaney wrote:The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

Proven at Spurs sure but not here. He misses too many gaping chances.

This part of the post stood out for me. True he misses chances for us. But as I argued with a mate about the same thing the other night, he did the same at Spurs and it frustrated the f*ck out of me many a time when he's been doing it for Ireland dozens of times. However, his chances missed are nothing new. He'll miss chances that appear to be easy, then redeem himself by either creating one for someone else, or pulling off a moment of magic and scoring a cracker. This is Robbie Keane in a nutshell. He'll frustrate the life out of you, then you'll forgive him in an instant for something he pulls out of nowhere. As the Arsenal supporters found out by chanting "what a waste of money" before he lashed in a goal worthy of any great center forward.

Fo Dne wrote:

devaney wrote:If he  is the only other decent striker that we have got apart from Torres then we are in serious trouble. The way Keane played yesterday was at times bordering on the amateurish. I suspect he would have missed the Torres tap in or failed to be in the right position!

You say change the record but you go on and on about his confidence which bemuses me to the point of bewilderment. Keane has featured very heavily this season in Liverpool's programme and understandably on many occasions, ignoring West Brom when Carson should have done a lot better with both goals, he has been substituted because as you say he is a striker and he wasn't scoring.

Do you think Keane's performances inspire confidence in the rest of the team? When Torres came on he did a couple of things that probably had the other players thinking thank goodness he is back - HE INSPIRES CONFIDENCE! I still hope that Robbie can sort himself out  but at the moment I certainly would not have him as a first choice to play along side Torres - leave that to Gerrard - there is an understanding that should be developed and one that could win Liverpool the Premiership. Try Robbie on the right - swop him around with Kuyt but don't put him in a position where he jeopardises the Gerrad Torres relationship that would just be foolhardy.

The goals against Arsenal and Bolton were useful but if he can't accept that Rafa is not convinced by his overall performance then he is in the wrong place and if you think that Rafa's understandable tactics with Robbie have been wrong then you probably are as well !! The reality is that Keane is being subjected to Premiership chasing pressure and similar to Babel he does not appear to be up to the job.

To be quite honest, what you've just posted is absoloute rubbish.

Barring Torres, and assuming you want to play Gerrard in midfield, which is something Benitez doesn't seem to want to do then he is the only other decent striker we have.

Ngog is quite frankly a joke and Dirk Kuyt couldn't bring down a bag of cement.

Clearly the reason it bemuses you is your lack of understanding of knowledge of both, people in general and the psychological side of the sport.

All people are different, all people react differently to certain circumstances, everyone is an individual, what might work for one person won't work for another. Obviously that is a difficult thing to understand and couldn't possibly be correct, but generally thats how I see it.

Now having read certain autobiographies of players, and playing the game myself you also start to understand certain things from their point of view. When players are dragged off nearly every match, despite scoring a goal or two or playing well, or when they are dragged off for a poor player or are taken off when they aren't always the worst player on the pitch it has a massive negative effect on their confidence. When they score goals and are dropped when all they want to do and play well it frustrates and again destroys confidence. When players lack confidence they don't perform to their maximum. All of this is obviously really hard to understand. Add to that a pressure to do well and clearly not being allowed to develop any sort of rhythm and again it will destroy any confidence the player has.

The fact is, I'm not going to sit here and write a massive post on it, because I'm 100% sure I'll be wasting my time as you'll dismiss it and go back to the simplistic view that players should be happy playing 60 minutes every week and if they don't like it they can leave. Keane has been dragged off in nearly every game regardless of scoring or playing well, he's been dropped after scoring goals, he's being taken off for like Ngog, he's watching the useless Kuyt play every minute of every match...

Its becoming a bit of a joke.

The lads proved he's quality over the last ten years. He has nothing to prove what so ever.

As for the "Gerrard-Torres" partnership... Gerrard's best as a central midfielder, not a striker. I'd much prefere an Alonso-Gerrard partnership with a Torres-Keane partnership upfront.

s@int wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

s@int wrote:I think most people now if they were honest would be willing to sell Keane for £20million and try again with another striker. The fact is we would get nothing like £20million for him if we sold him, so maybe the best we can do is persevere with him and use him as best we can. Now hopefully with Torres back we can look forward to a regular supply of goals again and the pressure may be lifted slightly from Keane's shoulders.

That would be fair enough, but who could we go for instead? David Villa? No chance in Hell. Plus he'd cost a LOT more than 20 million and even then there's the uncertainty of adjustment to the league. Kenwyne Jones? I'm not sure. He looks the part. Could be one to watch for. What do you reckon?

I think patience needs to be exercised a little bit more before deciding whether or not Keane is worth his asking price. It's interesting, because again I'll raise the issue with Berbatov and the Mancs. I don't hear any rumblings of discontent over his form over there, or notions of him being a failure and a flop thus far in the press because he did a fancy trick on the bi-line and slotted a pass for a Ronaldo goal on a plate. Whoopdy-f*cking-do!

The 20 million we paid was too much IMO. But still, had we paid even 10 million for him, people would still be complaining. We have Torres who is easily the big 30+ goal a season striker every world class side requires. So what if Keane isn't grabbing that many? Were people expecting him to? If they were, then that's just a deluded misconception brought about by his inflated price tag and really need to get a ounce of a clue, like our friend Banana Man there. If Keane starts linking the play in and around the box, and starts giving Torres goal scoring chances, along with the rest of the team as he so often tries too hard to do while making himself look like a tit when missing his chances, then that's worthy of his position in the squad for me alone so long as he converts at least 15 or so of those chances he gets himself. He's got 7, so that's another 7 or so to go before he meets my quota for the season.

I think it should be 15 or so LEAGUE GOALS we are looking for from Keane for the season, so imo he is someway short at the moment.

Need you ask who I would bring in ? Injury prone traitor, and has been ...... Michael Owen    Diego or Aguerro (if we could scrape the money together)

As for Berbatov he has scored 7 goals for the mancs, same as Keane for us, but while Keane has been missing open goals for us, Berbatov hasn't, which might explain any differences in criticism.

The fact that they have Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez to share the goals and any criticism with Berbatov, while we have N'gog and Kuyt (with Torres injured) might also go some way to explain our disappointment.

tbh I don't think he would be receiving half as much "stick" if he had come for £10million. You pay £20million for a player and you tend to expect a lot more ...... at the very least you expect them to be sticking away most of the excellent chances he has missed so far.

I am more disappointed that we bought a player that wasn't what we needed rather than the fact he has missed a few "sitters". Unfortunately Keane is neither a frontline striker or a creative second striker, he is a player that likes to run from deep. We needed either a target man or a creative second striker , we got neither.