Liverpool FC Forum

by **DanAn** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:04 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
banana wrote:Keane has to go.

Negatives
He is weak
soft,
slow,
no upper body strenght,
no airial presence,
no penetration,
no goal treath,
can't shoot

Positives
He has a good understanding of the game,
his runs (although he makes few and makes them slow) are intelligent,
he is british (CHL quota)

This is not enough for me. Bye bye Keane.

Seriously, do stop talking bollox.

To reiterate how much sh*t you just wrote, I've highlighted something in bold, not to be controversial of course.

Well to be fair as far as CHL quota goes he fits under the category of British trained so there is an argument their. But I support you claim that what he wrote was complete tripe.

Still it was genrally though that Keane was not the right player for us and too expensive, I think that's proven to be well an truely correct. However I remain optomistic that we can find a way for him to be successful with us. He is a good enough player to adapt I think.

by **heimdall** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:24 pm

Keane has had enough minutes playing time to prove he is a quality finisher, which I always thought was the point for a "striker", and has failed to impress. Yes he scores some wonderful goals like against Arsenal but he misses far too many sitters, reminds me of Cisse in that respect. We need a young up and coming striker who can complement Torres and I'm very disappointed that we don't have any youngsters or reserves who are ready to step up to that challenge or who Rafa is not willing to try.

Bottom line Keane HAS to become more consistent otherwise he is not worth much to us, at least not £20 million!!

by **Sarge** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:25 pm

pretty spot on for some of you lads here..

"Good strikers do not waste dead-on sitters."

Keane wasted a bunch this season so far. The question about how many minutes he plays on the pitch does not arise because he gets the service from all corners and yet he awfully wastes literally every ball. What does that read? Not enough play time?? B.OLLOX!!

The fact remains that he's never worth 20M

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:30 pm

banana wrote:Keane has to go.

Negatives
He is weak
soft,
slow,
no upper body strenght,
no airial presence,
no penetration,
no goal treath,
can't shoot

Positives
He has a good understanding of the game,
his runs (although he makes few and makes them slow) are intelligent,
he is british (CHL quota)

This is not enough for me. Bye bye Keane.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:48 pm

Owzat wrote:He should have netted at least once, whose fault is a lack of confidence if he doesn't take his chances? He can't expect Rafa to keep playing him until he finds good enough form so that the misses don't get to him and cost us.

Change the bloody record lad. Every time Keane has found form he's been dropped. Of course its going to mess with his confidence. Whats more is he's even been dropped when we've not had Torres, which, considering he's the only other decent striker we have is an absoloute joke.

by **Fo Dne** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:52 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Owzat wrote:Keane became worth about £9m max the second we signed him, mainly because he was worth maybe £10m-£12m to start with. I find it funny that people are saying he was never a quality finisher, no Ian Rush, so it makes Rafa paying £20.3m for him (at 28 years old) even more baffling. Rafa is never the most patient, Keane's reaction to being subbed a few times won't have done him any favours.

But don't worry, he'll 'come good' like we've been told many times on here

To point something out, Keane has netted 7 times for us, and should have scored at least another half dozen. He's been missing his strike partner, and as such has been forced to play as the lone striker more times than he'd liked, a position of which is not suited to his game. He is NOT a battering ram, lightening fast front man ala Drogba or Torres. He does not fit that role, but what he has been asked to do, he has done well performing that duty. He proved that at Arsenal. You say he wasn't worth 20 million and that it was too much. What so of Berbatov? Scored 4 goals, is a lazy b@stard on the pitch, and offers little to no goal threat for the Mancs. Oh, and he cost a full 10 million more. Fact is, if you want a proven quality EPL player, you pay the cash these days. Simple as that. The fella has had 6 months of pressure playing as a lone striker for the team currently sitting at the top of the PL. I think he deserves some slack. The criticism of Keane as a player are way over the top IMO. Some people just love to see a player fail because he costs X amount of money. He deserves a full season or more before the kind of abuse that's been hurled at him is justified. And BTW, I'm one of Keane's staunchest critics when it comes to his finishing. He frustrates, but more often than not, he always seems to produce something that vindicates him in one way or another.

For once I agree with you.

by **JC_81** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm

banana wrote:Keane has to go.

Negatives
He is weak
soft,
slow,
no upper body strenght,
no airial presence,
no penetration,
no goal treath,
can't shoot

Positives
He has a good understanding of the game,
his runs (although he makes few and makes them slow) are intelligent,
he is british (CHL quota)

This is not enough for me. Bye bye Keane.

Climb back under your rock. Please.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:03 pm

milou wrote:Just look at Torres.. He came back after a lengthy period, given 20mins and scored! It is as if he hasn't been away at all! That's the class we need

No offense to Torres and I'm thrilled he got back on the scoresheet after his long absence...but a side-footer into a gaping net is hardly the most challenging goal he'll ever score and shouldn't necessarily be used as a stick to beat Keane with.

On Keane, I was frustrated with his finishing yesterday as well but I have to agree with Mick, Ciggy, Stu and a few others, who suggest that resting him at Newcastle was the wrong decision because it may have contributed to his profligacy yesterday.

by **milou** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:16 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
milou wrote:Just look at Torres.. He came back after a lengthy period, given 20mins and scored! It is as if he hasn't been away at all! That's the class we need

No offense to Torres and I'm thrilled he got back on the scoresheet after his long absence...but a side-footer into a gaping net is hardly the most challenging goal he'll ever score and shouldn't necessarily be used as a stick to beat Keane with.

On Keane, I was frustrated with his finishing yesterday as well but I have to agree with Mick, Ciggy, Stu and a few others, who suggest that resting him at Newcastle was the wrong decision because it may have contributed to his profligacy yesterday.

I actually missed the goal earlier but just saw it after your post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utu8VBphN_4

But he still has to run the full length from the righ-thand side to put himself in that position to tap in.. For eg: Keane might not have reached there in time

I would also argue that not all strikers would have done that, considering Gerrard was already clearly through and the game already won.

OK Well.. having tried my very best to justify, I do have to admit that it was still TOO EASY to count! :laugh:

by **crazyhorse** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:18 pm

I do wish people would stop banging about how we paid too much, he was over valued, and he is not good enough.

He IS good enough - his record proves it.

And he is a Liverpool player. One proud to play for the club. At the moment he is having a bad time but it will likely as not change with time. He wears his shirt with pride and has never hidden or stopped wanting the ball during matches.

He is earning the respect he deserves the hard way. Give him a bloody break, get behind him and we will see him blossom.

by **devaney** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:24 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Owzat wrote:He should have netted at least once, whose fault is a lack of confidence if he doesn't take his chances? He can't expect Rafa to keep playing him until he finds good enough form so that the misses don't get to him and cost us.

Change the bloody record lad. Every time Keane has found form he's been dropped. Of course its going to mess with his confidence. Whats more is he's even been dropped when we've not had Torres, which, considering he's the only other decent striker we have is an absoloute joke.

If he is the only other decent striker that we have got apart from Torres then we are in serious trouble. The way Keane played yesterday was at times bordering on the amateurish. I suspect he would have missed the Torres tap in or failed to be in the right position!

You say change the record but you go on and on about his confidence which bemuses me to the point of bewilderment. Keane has featured very heavily this season in Liverpool's programme and understandably on many occasions, ignoring West Brom when Carson should have done a lot better with both goals, he has been substituted because as you say he is a striker and he wasn't scoring.

Do you think Keane's performances inspire confidence in the rest of the team? When Torres came on he did a couple of things that probably had the other players thinking thank goodness he is back - HE INSPIRES CONFIDENCE! I still hope that Robbie can sort himself out but at the moment I certainly would not have him as a first choice to play along side Torres - leave that to Gerrard - there is an understanding that should be developed and one that could win Liverpool the Premiership. Try Robbie on the right - swop him around with Kuyt but don't put him in a position where he jeopardises the Gerrad Torres relationship that would just be foolhardy.

The goals against Arsenal and Bolton were useful but if he can't accept that Rafa is not convinced by his overall performance then he is in the wrong place and if you think that Rafa's understandable tactics with Robbie have been wrong then you probably are as well !! The reality is that Keane is being subjected to Premiership chasing pressure and similar to Babel he does not appear to be up to the job.

by **milou** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:29 pm

crazyhorse wrote:I do wish people would stop banging about how we paid too much, he was over valued, and he is not good enough.

He IS good enough - his record proves it.

And he is a Liverpool player. One proud to play for the club. At the moment he is having a bad time but it will likely as not change with time. He wears his shirt with pride and has never hidden or stopped wanting the ball during matches.

He is earning the respect he deserves the hard way. Give him a bloody break, get behind him and we will see him blossom.

I TOTALLY support him.. like any players that wear the Liverpool shirt.

I hope he would do well, as much as he hopes to do well himself.

But I think the criticism has been right (as long as it remains civil and objective).. bcos he hasn't been good enough - FACT. And I bet he knows it himself too.

Further to that, I am beginning to worry for him with Torres coming back and Gerrard in red-hot form behind the lone-striker. It is pretty clear to me that "Torres-Gerrard up-front" looks set & done (assuming there is no more injury surprises!) at the moment.

Where & when will Keane play then?

Let's see how the story unfolds...

by **banana** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:33 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
banana wrote:Keane has to go.

Negatives
He is weak
soft,
slow,
no upper body strenght,
no airial presence,
no penetration,
no goal treath,
can't shoot

Positives
He has a good understanding of the game,
his runs (although he makes few and makes them slow) are intelligent,
he is british (CHL quota)

This is not enough for me. Bye bye Keane.

Seriously, do stop talking bollox.

To reiterate how much sh*t you just wrote, I've highlighted something in bold, not to be controversial of course.

I will enlighten you kiddo since your knowledge is so limited.

CHL RULES

No club may have more than 25 players on List A during the season. As a
minimum, places 20 to 25 on List A (six places) are reserved exclusively for
“locally trained players” and no club may have more than three “associationtrained
players” listed in places 20 to 25 on List A. List A must specify the six
players who qualify as being “locally trained”, as well as whether they are
“club-trained” or “association-trained”. The possible combinations that enable
clubs to comply with the List A requirements are set out in Annex VIII.

A “locally trained player” is either a “club-trained player” or an “associationtrained
player”.

A “club-trained player” is a player who – irrespective of his nationality and
age – has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or
not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match
of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match
of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months between the age of
15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the
end of the season during which the player turns 21).

An “association-trained player” is a player who – irrespective of his nationality
and age – has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the
same national association as that of his current club for a period, continuous
or not, of three entire seasons or of 36 months between the age of 15 (or the
24
start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of
the season during which the player turns 21).

If a club has fewer than six locally trained players in its squad (i.e. in places
20 to 25 on List A), then the maximum number of players on List A is
reduced accordingly. Furthermore, if a club lists a player in places 20 to 25
on List A who does not fulfil the conditions set out in this article, that player is
not eligible to participate for the club in the UEFA club competition(s) in
question and the club is unable to replace him on List A.

by **devaney** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:54 pm

bigmick wrote:Well if he wasn't going to give him the opportunity to find his feet, wasn't going to leave him on the pitch for thr full 90 minutes, and intended dropping him each time he scored two goals then yes he was wrong to buy him I think.

Pretty much everyone thought we had paid at the very least top dollar for Keane, and most thought we had overpaid by at least 25% or so. I'd be inclined to agree with that to be honest, as I would the feeling that Keane isn't as good as a second striker/advanced midfielder as Gerrard is (mind you there's not many that are to tell the truth). All that said though, he does play for us now, he is our only fit striker, we did pay 20 million quid for him, and we really could do with him just occasionally being able to hit a cows erse with a banjo.

Given all of that, once he starts/started scoring it was silly to leave him out against Newcastle. IMHo of course.

People talked about it being a gamble leaving Keane out against Newcastle. What would be a bigger gamble is playing Robbie in our next game. You have talked about using a player when their confidence is high well I also think the reverse is true. Keane and Babel are currently very high level gambles. What odds would you give on either of these strikers scoring in a game - would 10/1 be outrageous based on their past games?

Your strategy to keep playing Keane to build his confidence doesn't work for me. He has scored in three Premiership matches and he has been given a lot of opportunities. His constant misses could prove frighteningly expensive at the end of the season if we persist with him!

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:16 pm

I think most people now if they were honest would be willing to sell Keane for £20million and try again with another striker. The fact is we would get nothing like £20million for him if we sold him, so maybe the best we can do is persevere with him and use him as best we can. Now hopefully with Torres back we can look forward to a regular supply of goals again and the pressure may be lifted slightly from Keane's shoulders.

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