Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:21 pm

he was there bob , he just spent most of it asleep in lucas's pocket . :laugh:

by **Fo Dne** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:38 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Watch Guthrie today aswell, compare him directly to Lucas.

Direct comparisons are difficult when one of the two don't even turn up.

Ay it makes a change though. We're actually talking about how well Lucas played for the first time ever...

To be fair Guthrie's alot better than how shown today, as are most of Newcastles team. I just wish every team would roll over like they did!

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:31 pm

We might aswell get rid.

Seriously, a good player, horribley wasted and a complete waste of money and time signing him.

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:29 pm

Well I never saw the game but it seems from reading the comments he missed a hatful. I guess it reopens the debate about the selection against Newcastle. Rafa was either totally correct to leave him out because if he had played he would probably have missed a hatful of chances. On the other hand, dropping him may have increased his anxiety level and not contributed positively towards his next appearance.

It's all a question of opinions, but mine is and always has been that strikers in particular ought to be nurtured when they are scoring goals. I don't think his apparent performance against Preston proves those of us who think he should have played against Newcastle right, but I certainly don't think it proves us wrong either.

by **sgs** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:23 pm

In my thinking what it does is give the lie to the opinion that everyone's granny could've scored against Newcastle! The integration of Keane into the Liverpool setup simply continues...

by **heimdall** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:40 pm

Keane misses too many easy chances and he is old enough to be able to cope with the pressure, he is starting to run out of excuses in my book, he is completey hot or cold and that is not good enough, thank god Torres is back. :buttrock

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:09 pm

sgs wrote:In my thinking what it does is give the lie to the opinion that everyone's granny could've scored against Newcastle! The integration of Keane into the Liverpool setup simply continues...

Indeed it does. That's twice though now we've tried the "score two goals and sit on your erse" routine. It would be hard to make a convincing case that it's worked in all honesty. Now equally you could argue it's made absolutely no difference whatsoever/he couldn't hit a cows erse with a banjo anyway etc etc but I'm not so sure.

Since the dawns of time in a football sense, strikers have been "streaky" in their goalscoring prowess, suddenly hitting a rich seam of form for no apparent reason. A little like the golfer who's putter suddenly becomes red hot, he starts banging them in from all directions. The golfer in such a situation would rarely if ever decide to change his putter mid streak, and historically managers have been reluctant to chop and change a striker who is doing the business.

The feeling always has been that if you do drop and change, or even chop and change a striker who's suddenly got the knack, you risk him losing it as quickly as he found it. Now many things in football have changed over the last 20 years, but some still hold good.

In this sense, I'm very much a traditionialist, and believe that form is something which carries on from game to game, and the tiniest of things can have an effect upon it. Will it have slightly played on keane's mind that he was rested again after scoring two goals? Who knows for sure. Will he have had a little thought in the back of his mind, "I'll show Rafa Benitez once and for all"? impossible to tell. Can we say for certain that if he had played against Newcastle he would have either scored or played better againt Preston? No, and that's why nobody did.

On the balance of probablity though, and from watching the player over many years/watching his body language/listening to his interviews etc etc, he strikes me very much as a confidence player. A sensitive soul perhaps, but one who needs to be nurtured, an arm around his shoulder type of footballer. My hunch is that mentally he is some way short of being at his best, and the way he has been treated is a large contributory factor.

Had he played against Preston and scored a hat-trick, I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that those who so stridently defended the decision to leave him out against Newcastle would have been on here in a flash. They would have been banging on about the nonsense of claiming that dropping him could effect his confidence. I'm not going to do the same in reverse, as one bad game doesn't prove my point from earlier, just the same as it doesn't make him a bad player.

It might be nice though if he does score two goals again a Liverpool shirt, or even three in two games like he had, to keep playing him for a bit. IMHO it's got to be worth a try, you never know it might even work. If we're lucky, he could be worth a lot of money, 20 million quid maybe. Stranger things have happened.

by **Rush Job** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:45 pm

bigmick wrote:Well I never saw the game but it seems from reading the comments he missed a hatful. I guess it reopens the debate about the selection against Newcastle. Rafa was either totally correct to leave him out because if he had played he would probably have missed a hatful of chances. On the other hand, dropping him may have increased his anxiety level and not contributed positively towards his next appearance.

It's all a question of opinions, but mine is and always has been that strikers in particular ought to be nurtured when they are scoring goals. I don't think his apparent performance against Preston proves those of us who think he should have played against Newcastle right, but I certainly don't think it proves us wrong either.

So what does it prove?

by **Number 9** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:52 pm

bigmick wrote:Stranger things have happened.

I love that song!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CEIeb85DkCs

by **bigmick** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:54 pm

Rush Job wrote:
bigmick wrote:Well I never saw the game but it seems from reading the comments he missed a hatful. I guess it reopens the debate about the selection against Newcastle. Rafa was either totally correct to leave him out because if he had played he would probably have missed a hatful of chances. On the other hand, dropping him may have increased his anxiety level and not contributed positively towards his next appearance.

It's all a question of opinions, but mine is and always has been that strikers in particular ought to be nurtured when they are scoring goals. I don't think his apparent performance against Preston proves those of us who think he should have played against Newcastle right, but I certainly don't think it proves us wrong either.

So what does it prove?

fecked if I know Rushie

by **Rush Job** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:59 pm

bigmick wrote:
sgs wrote:In my thinking what it does is give the lie to the opinion that everyone's granny could've scored against Newcastle! The integration of Keane into the Liverpool setup simply continues...

Indeed it does. That's twice though now we've tried the "score two goals and sit on your erse" routine. It would be hard to make a convincing case that it's worked in all honesty. Now equally you could argue it's made absolutely no difference whatsoever/he couldn't hit a cows erse with a banjo anyway etc etc but I'm not so sure.

Since the dawns of time in a football sense, strikers have been "streaky" in their goalscoring prowess, suddenly hitting a rich seam of form for no apparent reason. A little like the golfer who's putter suddenly becomes red hot, he starts banging them in from all directions. The golfer in such a situation would rarely if ever decide to change his putter mid streak, and historically managers have been reluctant to chop and change a striker who is doing the business.

The feeling always has been that if you do drop and change, or even chop and change a striker who's suddenly got the knack, you risk him losing it as quickly as he found it. Now many things in football have changed over the last 20 years, but some still hold good.

In this sense, I'm very much a traditionialist, and believe that form is something which carries on from game to game, and the tiniest of things can have an effect upon it. Will it have slightly played on keane's mind that he was rested again after scoring two goals? Who knows for sure. Will he have had a little thought in the back of his mind, "I'll show Rafa Benitez once and for all"? impossible to tell. Can we say for certain that if he had played against Newcastle he would have either scored or played better againt Preston? No, and that's why nobody did.

On the balance of probablity though, and from watching the player over many years/watching his body language/listening to his interviews etc etc, he strikes me very much as a confidence player. A sensitive soul perhaps, but one who needs to be nurtured, an arm around his shoulder type of footballer. My hunch is that mentally he is some way short of being at his best, and the way he has been treated is a large contributory factor.

Had he played against Preston and scored a hat-trick, I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that those who so stridently defended the decision to leave him out against Newcastle would have been on here in a flash. They would have been banging on about the nonsense of claiming that dropping him could effect his confidence. I'm not going to do the same in reverse, as one bad game doesn't prove my point from earlier, just the same as it doesn't make him a bad player.

It might be nice though if he does score two goals again a Liverpool shirt, or even three in two games like he had, to keep playing him for a bit. IMHO it's got to be worth a try, you never know it might even work. If we're lucky, he could be worth a lot of money, 20 million quid maybe. Stranger things have happened.

Good post, you would have thought having forked out 20mil his name would be one of the first on the team sheet and we would do our up most to get him and keep him in form, as it is he's not even garenteed a start when Torres is injured and he's just scored 2 in the game before.
What are we missing here because it just doesn make sence.
I didnt see the game today.

by **Sabre** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:00 am

It proves that what are known as bad days in the office sometimes appear in football in an unpredictable manner.

(The game is available in mininova with good quality, for those who are bittorrent users btw)

by **heimdall** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:01 am

BigMick the bottom line here is that now Torres is back Keane will probably get fewer games so does that mean that he is going to be like this all the time, i.e hot and cold? If that is the case then we need to get rid of him in my opinion becuase when he is good he is very good but we just can't afford to carry him, or any other player, who has such a fragile ego. In my personal opinion I think there is sopmething wrong with him but it is probably more down to a profund lack of intelligence and concentration, he reminds me a little of the model who was found staring intently at a carton of orange juice, when asked what she was doing she said that the carton said concentrate. :wwww

by **metalhead** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:43 am

Fo Dne wrote:We might aswell get rid.

Seriously, a good player, horribley wasted and a complete waste of money and time signing him.

Hmm.. we will see if Rafa goes 4-4-2 with Keane and Torres now.

by **sgs** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:10 am

The truth is that Keane has ALWAYS missed a few amount of chances throughout his career. But he is a talented player who brings a lot more to the team's attack than goal scoring. Secondly, he is a big and experienced player, not the delicate emotionally fragile player he is being made out to be. I am confident that in time he will come good. Meantime, we have a title to win; period!

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