Liverpool FC Forum

by **BrownBomber** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:55 am

Simari wrote:I am quite shocked with some fundamental concepts that a lot of you don't get.

This is not a game. This is a business, and while players play for the love of the game - they are EMPLOYED to perform. Football is no different from any other business, if you do not deliver, you will face a lengthy spell on the outside.

GET OVER IT.

It happens in every facet of business.

Robbie Keane is not delivering at the moment. He needs some time on the bench to look through his performances and decide how he wants to make an impact. He is a smart, talented player who has lost his way on the football pitch. The number of times he has simply gone anonymous on the pitch is shocking.

His confidence will pick up once he starts scoring goals EARLY in games. Rafa is the boss and any boss would do the same. Time spans in a game of football are far more constrained. If your ace striker (in the absence of Nando), cannot deliver CONSISTENTLY, Rafa has no choice but to look for options.

We won at Blackburn without him. The rest of the team stood up to the task. Yossi stepped up 2 gears.

However, Robbie must realise this much. Rafa starts him every game for a reason. He has faith in Keane. If he had no faith, we'd have seen more of Ngog.

Keane just needs to dig in and get through this rough patch and not look to Rafa for sympathy cos he won't be getting any. This situation will resolve itself once Keane starts contributing regularly with goals - and the only person who help Keane start scoring, is Keane himself.

As soon as you mention the word business in your first line, all your credibility shoots out the window my friend...........

Football aint no business and you are no football man - you are a disgrace to the club.

Bottom line - I honestly can't believe you come on to a Liverpool website and talk about spreadsheets, you understand nothing about the game or it's origins.

I'll be happy to trade on football matters tomorrow.
(Trying not to get agressive with keyboard muppets.)

by **Fo Dne** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:57 am

BrownBomber wrote:Keane is a class player, and quality players need to play through their bad spell, it is only a matter of time before they come out of it.

I don't come on here as much as I should - for a reason, no doubt there are proper football men here but the amount of keyboard warriors who are so quick to criticise just put me off.

Keane can play a vital role for the Reds, he is no lone forward and never will be, people are so quick to judge, he might be a proven premiership player but he is playing for us now and that is a totally different ball game - we need to get the best out of him and not put him somewhere he is not going to any damage for us.

Ideally we get Heskey as cover in the new Year, this way we will see the best out of Keane when the main man is injured.

You really want Heskey back? Are you for real?

by **Zidane** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:07 am

BrownBomber wrote:
Simari wrote:I am quite shocked with some fundamental concepts that a lot of you don't get.

This is not a game. This is a business, and while players play for the love of the game - they are EMPLOYED to perform. Football is no different from any other business, if you do not deliver, you will face a lengthy spell on the outside.

GET OVER IT.

It happens in every facet of business.

Robbie Keane is not delivering at the moment. He needs some time on the bench to look through his performances and decide how he wants to make an impact. He is a smart, talented player who has lost his way on the football pitch. The number of times he has simply gone anonymous on the pitch is shocking.

His confidence will pick up once he starts scoring goals EARLY in games. Rafa is the boss and any boss would do the same. Time spans in a game of football are far more constrained. If your ace striker (in the absence of Nando), cannot deliver CONSISTENTLY, Rafa has no choice but to look for options.

We won at Blackburn without him. The rest of the team stood up to the task. Yossi stepped up 2 gears.

However, Robbie must realise this much. Rafa starts him every game for a reason. He has faith in Keane. If he had no faith, we'd have seen more of Ngog.

Keane just needs to dig in and get through this rough patch and not look to Rafa for sympathy cos he won't be getting any. This situation will resolve itself once Keane starts contributing regularly with goals - and the only person who help Keane start scoring, is Keane himself.

As soon as you mention the word business in your first line, all your credibility shoots out the window my friend...........

Football aint no business and you are no football man - you are a disgrace to the club.

Bottom line - I honestly can't believe you come on to a Liverpool website and talk about spreadsheets, you understand nothing about the game or it's origins.

I'll be happy to trade on football matters tomorrow.
(Trying not to get agressive with keyboard muppets.)

I agree, Football (Soccer) is nowhere near what American sports are right now and that's what makes it enjoyable to watch along with hockey. American's turned all their sports into "businesses". Basketball, Baseball and Football are full of players just looking to get paid there's no loyalty or love for their team they play for it's a disgrace and ruins society imo.

I just support my hometown team in the NBA and as for the NFL that league is :censored:

. Not because it's "American" football but because it is just :censored:

people in the U.S. got brainwashed with football somehow and it is now ridiculously popular but is a lame sport.

by **Sarge** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:47 am

Football is definitely a business and nowhere near the "passion" industry with regards to the most global premier league, division 1, serie-A-categories. Unless you are playing in division 3 or lower, football is definitely categorized as an economy.
Like any other economy, each team has its own "corporate" structure and governance that makes the team becoming more like companies. Like every other companies, teams are suppose to generate revenue and of course profit for their shareholders and in order to do that, teams must perform.

Liverpool indeedly are performing but with risk.

Other companies that are operating with risk will face many uncertainties eg. share value fluctuations, restricted access to capital markets etc.
But what is it that makes liverpool performance that is so risky? I would say one of them is depth quallity. Without torres, we face uncertainty in the scoring department. Of course we still keep scoring but from other departments (midfield for instance) than forward.

Keane as for now is not performing either if he is playing full 90 mins, 60 mins, let alone 15 mins. I mean, he does not have to score prolific and nicest goals but statistically have shown that he even missed couple of sitters for crying out loud.

He is a striker and by right his performance is primarily measured by the number of goals and not assists. Fans remember legends like Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Van Basten, Rush, Dalglish by their scoring prowess AND that only. Who cares about the person whom feed them the balls that led to their goals?

Any CEO would pay ridiculous amount of money to any employee that could perform within and beyond expectations.
Liverpool paid 20M for his service and he certainly does not perform according to what he's worth.

Anybody can blame rafa for the rotation strategy and stuff like that BUT the bottom line is that in any shareholders' book, Keane is not worth even 5M at net present value.
Remember morientes? We paid good money for his service but he could not perform to the company's expectations. We saw how close rafa was to him during the 2005 CL final but business comes first. Same will go to keane if he keeps on performing like this.

Bottom line is, if you can't perform, you'll be sacked.

by **devaney** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:54 am

BrownBomber wrote:
Simari wrote:I am quite shocked with some fundamental concepts that a lot of you don't get.

This is not a game. This is a business, and while players play for the love of the game - they are EMPLOYED to perform. Football is no different from any other business, if you do not deliver, you will face a lengthy spell on the outside.

GET OVER IT.

It happens in every facet of business.

Robbie Keane is not delivering at the moment. He needs some time on the bench to look through his performances and decide how he wants to make an impact. He is a smart, talented player who has lost his way on the football pitch. The number of times he has simply gone anonymous on the pitch is shocking.

His confidence will pick up once he starts scoring goals EARLY in games. Rafa is the boss and any boss would do the same. Time spans in a game of football are far more constrained. If your ace striker (in the absence of Nando), cannot deliver CONSISTENTLY, Rafa has no choice but to look for options.

We won at Blackburn without him. The rest of the team stood up to the task. Yossi stepped up 2 gears.

However, Robbie must realise this much. Rafa starts him every game for a reason. He has faith in Keane. If he had no faith, we'd have seen more of Ngog.

Keane just needs to dig in and get through this rough patch and not look to Rafa for sympathy cos he won't be getting any. This situation will resolve itself once Keane starts contributing regularly with goals - and the only person who help Keane start scoring, is Keane himself.

As soon as you mention the word business in your first line, all your credibility shoots out the window my friend...........

Football aint no business and you are no football man - you are a disgrace to the club.

Bottom line - I honestly can't believe you come on to a Liverpool website and talk about spreadsheets, you understand nothing about the game or it's origins.

I'll be happy to trade on football matters tomorrow.
(Trying not to get agressive with keyboard muppets.)

BrownBomber - why are you getting upset? ok Simari comes across as a right patronising pr.t but technically he is right and hardly a disgrace. The beautiful game has moved on. It is big business. If you need further evidence of that look no further than the Champions League and how the draw is manipulated to guarantee that the top teams won't get knocked out in the early stages - the competition IS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND BUSINESS.

Personally I don't understand your beef. Moto GP and F1 are highly entertaining sports - ok not for everybody - but they are also massively business related. Honda's recent decision to pull out of F1 was a business related decision. Honda's car sales are down by over a third agaianst projections so something had to go. Sport is business but why is that a problem?

Calm down! Calm down!

by **Bam** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:32 am

BrownBomber wrote:Keane is a class player, and quality players need to play through their bad spell, it is only a matter of time before they come out of it.

I don't come on here as much as I should - for a reason, no doubt there are proper football men here but the amount of keyboard warriors who are so quick to criticise just put me off.

Keane can play a vital role for the Reds, he is no lone forward and never will be, people are so quick to judge, he might be a proven premiership player but he is playing for us now and that is a totally different ball game - we need to get the best out of him and not put him somewhere he is not going to any damage for us.

Ideally we get Heskey as cover in the new Year, this way we will see the best out of Keane when the main man is injured.

Good post Brown Bomber, I was thinking the same about Heskey. While every man and his dog are wanting Owen back I dont think too much thought has gone into how well Owen/Keane would play together. Two midgets, who play better alongside a target man more than they do anyone else. We've briefly seen Keane with Torres and Kuyt and nothings worked there, I bet if you pair the Irishman with Emile Heskey you'd see the Keane we all know.

I dont think the people shouting for Owen have given it too much thought about him 'fittingi into our system.

Disclaimer: Before any To.sspot twists my words and accuse's me of saying Heskey is a better striker than Owen. NEED SHOOTING OR THEIR ORGANS REMOVED. I am merely pointing out the fact the partnership with Keane would probably be that more compatatble with Heskey than it would Owen.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:53 am

Bam wrote:
BrownBomber wrote:Keane is a class player, and quality players need to play through their bad spell, it is only a matter of time before they come out of it.

I don't come on here as much as I should - for a reason, no doubt there are proper football men here but the amount of keyboard warriors who are so quick to criticise just put me off.

Keane can play a vital role for the Reds, he is no lone forward and never will be, people are so quick to judge, he might be a proven premiership player but he is playing for us now and that is a totally different ball game - we need to get the best out of him and not put him somewhere he is not going to any damage for us.

Ideally we get Heskey as cover in the new Year, this way we will see the best out of Keane when the main man is injured.

Good post Brown Bomber, I was thinking the same about Heskey. While every man and his dog are wanting Owen back I dont think too much thought has gone into how well Owen/Keane would play together. Two midgets, who play better alongside a target man more than they do anyone else. We've briefly seen Keane with Torres and Kuyt and nothings worked there, I bet if you pair the Irishman with Emile Heskey you'd see the Keane we all know.

I dont think the people shouting for Owen have given it too much thought about him 'fittingi into our system.

Disclaimer: Before any To.sspot twists my words and accuse's me of saying Heskey is a better striker than Owen. NEED SHOOTING OR THEIR ORGANS REMOVED. I am merely pointing out the fact the partnership with Keane would probably be that more compatatble with Heskey than it would Owen.

It's a fair point. Owen and Keane wouldn't be as obvious a hit as Keane and Heskey would. Heskey is almost certainly a better player now than he was when he was last at Liverpool, but there were simply too many times when he fell over it/fecked it up for me to be up for re-signing him.

He would though tick the boxes which Owen ticks in the sense that he'd be relatively cheap due to his running down contract.

I do though have a slight inkling that Owen could play up top on his own if asked, particularly with Gerrard playing quite close to him. I'm far from convinced that 4-4-2 is going to be our best chance of playing well anyway, particularly if we can't/won't play Gerrard on the right. Stick Stevie G on the right side and I'd play 4-4-2 all day long.

by **devaney** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:57 am

we all dream... wrote:Good post Zidane you ripped devaney apart with your mature attitude to kuyt/keane rather than being petulent or however you spell it.

Kuyt frustrates me also, i want him to do well, but when he does it is often with good fortune rather than great football. keane has had a lot of time, he has played decent minutes but not shown what he can do properly. The difference with kuyt and keane is that when kuyt is maximising his potential he will not score 20 a season where as keane can and hopefully will. Not only that but keane plays for the shirt and creates chances just as much as kuyt.

I hope we get them both firing on all cylinders over the xmas period... hopefully torres will be fit and banging them in and we will be able to carry on with our title challenge.

This has been heavily edited as it made no sense what so ever as I was a little intoxicated in some form when i wrote the original post.

Suggest you read the entire thread preferably when you aren't slightly the worse for wear !

Didn't feel ripped apart by Zidane one bit? Thought that Zidane backtracked and was almost apologetic about some of his previous less than complimentary remarks about Dirk Kuyt which were totally unreasonable. I accept that Kuyt over the last four matches has not been as good as he was at the beginning of the season and I was pleased to see him rested last night. I also think that Steve Gerrard has been poor over the last three to four matches but he has a couple of goals to show for his efforts. In fact the entire team look as if the pressure is getting to them.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:09 am

bigmick wrote:Heskey is almost certainly a better player now than he was when he was last at Liverpool, but there were simply too many times when he fell over it/fecked it up for me to be up for re-signing him.

My enduring memory of Heskey is a defender bouncing himself off of Emile and landing on the ground, leaving Heskey with his arms in the air, while the ref awards a free / card. He has always struck as the most unlikely striker, for any team.

I couldn't stand him at the club a few years ago and I don't think that will change, if he was brought back. I'd much rather see Owen back instead, if that's the choice.

by **Thewaykokid** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:32 am

We should sign Berba like

by **devaney** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:33 am

tonyeh wrote:
bigmick wrote:Heskey is almost certainly a better player now than he was when he was last at Liverpool, but there were simply too many times when he fell over it/fecked it up for me to be up for re-signing him.

My enduring memory of Heskey is a defender bouncing himself off of Emile and landing on the ground, leaving Heskey with his arms in the air, while the ref awards a free / card. He has always struck as the most unlikely striker, for any team.

I couldn't stand him at the club a few years ago and I don't think that will change, if he was brought back. I'd much rather see Owen back instead, if that's the choice.

Is there actually anything you do like about LFC ?

Ask M.O. who his preferred partner for England and Liverpool was - you've guessed - Emile Heskey - simply because his unselfish and powerful play got Michael a shed load of goals! You probably think the seven England managers that selected Heskey were also wrong.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:49 am

devaney wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
bigmick wrote:Heskey is almost certainly a better player now than he was when he was last at Liverpool, but there were simply too many times when he fell over it/fecked it up for me to be up for re-signing him.

My enduring memory of Heskey is a defender bouncing himself off of Emile and landing on the ground, leaving Heskey with his arms in the air, while the ref awards a free / card. He has always struck as the most unlikely striker, for any team.

I couldn't stand him at the club a few years ago and I don't think that will change, if he was brought back. I'd much rather see Owen back instead, if that's the choice.

Is there actually anything you do like about LFC ?

Ask M.O. who his preferred partner for England and Liverpool was - you've guessed - Emile Heskey - simply because his unselfish and powerful play got Michael a shed load of goals! You probably think the seven England managers that selected Heskey were also wrong.

Hmmm....so not liking Emile Heskey equates to not liking LFC?

And I'd say lack of choice had a big part to play in the England manager's choices TBH.

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:51 am

Heskey was immense, like Hasselbank, when he managed to stand up. If he just learned more to be the strong player he can be he woulda still been with us.

At other times, he was sh!te tho lol

by **GYBS** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:25 pm

Owen , heskey, Riise, Hamman all players i have heard people saying they want brought back ? who else ? Biscan ?Vignal ? Potter ? Peltier ? - there is a reason why they all left .

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:27 pm

I'd get Warnock back. And bringing Biscan is a no brainer!

I wouldn't bring back any of the others, gotta move forwards.

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