Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:57 pm

Its frustrationing for sure, darn frustrating.

by **JamCar05** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:57 pm

Rockthekop wrote:Did anyone notice how Rafa brought up the topic of a new contract?

It would be a huge mistake giving him another contract at this point in time.

The end of the season should be the earliest to review it.

He's caking it cuz he knows he's in the last chance saloon. No league title, no job!

My backing for Rafa ends after this season if we don't win the league title! My patience has ran out.

The thing is this though, if a new manager was to be brought in by the end of the season (which is NOT what I'm suggesting btw), we would - in some ways - need to start pretty much from scratch again. Most of our spanish players seem really close to Rafa, and they would perhaps prefer to return to Spain (again I'm NOT saying that would definitely happen, but some of them might decide it would be the right moment to return).

Others would leave the club aswell, as the new manager would have his own ideas about how the squad should look. So we would need to start rebuilding again, which we all know takes time. Meanwhile the consistency at our rivals (well, mostly Arsenal and the mancs) continues, and we'll be left playing catch up again (also both Chelsea and Man City have loads to spent, which we in all probability don't).

For the above reasons my patience with Rafa would NOT run out, if he doesn't deliver the title this season. That being said, I do expect us to at least be challeging for it, which atm we most definitely are, seeing as we are top of the league come December (where we have usually already been practically out of it in many recent seasons). This even though we haven't performed aswell as many would have liked (me included).

EDIT: sorry to stray so much off topic, but I felt like responding to the quoted remark. Anyway back to Keane; he hasn't exactly been all that yet, now has he

by **puroresu** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:04 am

Hunterlaar going to Real in Jan for £17 mil. We were robbed!!

by **Bam** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:24 am

tonyeh wrote:
Bam wrote:
Agreed. Choosing to sub Keane for a player with an extremely small amount of playing time is a worry from a managerial point of view.

No its not, didnt Houllier sub Heggem for Gerrard at the age of 19 ?

The substitution made by Rafa last night shows all was not going well on the field.

The only worrying thing from the managers view point, is that Keane isnt able to adapt his game somewhat and find some form.

I don't think you should be choosing goggle eyes as a good managerial comparison.

Yeah, top post. :no

by **Bam** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:41 am

Ok Bam i have a question,

In what way has Rafa tried to help his new signing through his poor form crisis of confidence etc ?

I know he doesnt have to do this Robbie is just another player, but he could and should be very important at this moment and time with Torres out again for a few weeks.
Surely it would be beneficial to the side to find solutions to getting Keane back playing well ?

Firstly Ace, the moment the season started Rafa started with Keane and Torres upfront albeit only a handful of games due to Torres' injury. The partnership didnt click like so many had thought, I dont expect miracles to perform either in that Keane has to find form instantly.

Then more or less Rafa gave Keane a go upfront on his own for a few games (I think) that was a non-starter. Keane needs to be playing alongside somebody and like many have said a target man if you like would suit Robbie better.

Even though Robbie scored two against West Brom and was taken off, I found this rather perplexing and the decision to rest him after he scored. I wont deny that !

But by and large he has been given minutes to play himself into a bit of form, and as of yet there isnt any inclination that this is going to happen. I dont think its in LFC's best interest to keep persisting with a player who isnt in form and isnt doing the overall job. Just as I didnt expect Alonso and Kuyt to be constantly picked when each of them has their own blip.

I agree it would be benefical if Rafa can find solution to Keanes form, but at the end of the day its down to the player himself to produce it. Rafa can only instruct him, give him the backing he needs and Rafa had backed him by starting him in most games except Keane hasnt taken the opportunity.

We are in a cack situation with our strikers, with Torres being out and Keane out of form we dont really have anybody else to turn to. Personally I'd start Keane on the bench in saying that, give him half hour or so to come on and prove his place, and instead give somebody else a go upfront, Babel even. In the bigger picture we cant worry about Keane's confidence over Liverpools performances and results and he isnt helping the cause too much on the pitch at the moment.

In short, if a player is out of form drop him, sub him. Do something to stir the team up but for f.ucks sake dont persist with him if itts going to have a detrimental effect on the team and its results.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:50 am

I agree it would be benefical if Rafa can find solution to Keanes form

But taking him off at 60 minutes in every game isn't very convincing as an effort to find solutions, especially when he's replacing him with the likes of N'Gog in a must win match. There's 30 minutes more to play, every time Keane is taken off, that's a lot of time and you don't know what's going to happen.

One thing doing something like that WILL garruntee though, is that it will whittle away at the lads confidence, until it'll become impossible to build it back up again for the good of the team.

It MUST be playing on his mind in every match, knowing he'll be gone on the 60 minute mark. That can't be healthy.

Keane deserves the criticism he gets for fluffing chances, none more so than that idiotic showboating move he did in the CL against Athletico. But Rafa is definitely having a part to play in his poor form.

I wonder how many goals Keane has scored in the last 30 minutes for Spurs or Ireland?

Maybe Owzat can help us out there?

In short, if a player is out of form drop him, sub him. Do something to stir the team up but for f.ucks sake dont persist with him if itts going to have a detrimental effect on the team and its results.

All well and good, but who do you replace him with? Babel? N'Gog or worse still...Kuyt?

The simple fact is, that choice is not there at the moment.

by **Toffeehater** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:24 pm

puroresu wrote:Hunterlaar going to Real in Jan for £17 mil. We were robbed!!

Alfonso Alves had a exceptional scoring rate at hereenven , i think its was more than a goal a game and he was being chased by many clubs and came to boro and he has left all signs of that scoring record in holland . The dutch league is very different from any other league .

by **Toffeehater** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:27 pm

Bam wrote:
Ok Bam i have a question,

In what way has Rafa tried to help his new signing through his poor form crisis of confidence etc ?

I know he doesnt have to do this Robbie is just another player, but he could and should be very important at this moment and time with Torres out again for a few weeks.
Surely it would be beneficial to the side to find solutions to getting Keane back playing well ?

Firstly Ace, the moment the season started Rafa started with Keane and Torres upfront albeit only a handful of games due to Torres' injury. The partnership didnt click like so many had thought, I dont expect miracles to perform either in that Keane has to find form instantly.

Then more or less Rafa gave Keane a go upfront on his own for a few games (I think) that was a non-starter. Keane needs to be playing alongside somebody and like many have said a target man if you like would suit Robbie better.

Even though Robbie scored two against West Brom and was taken off, I found this rather perplexing and the decision to rest him after he scored. I wont deny that !

But by and large he has been given minutes to play himself into a bit of form, and as of yet there isnt any inclination that this is going to happen. I dont think its in LFC's best interest to keep persisting with a player who isnt in form and isnt doing the overall job. Just as I didnt expect Alonso and Kuyt to be constantly picked when each of them has their own blip.

I agree it would be benefical if Rafa can find solution to Keanes form, but at the end of the day its down to the player himself to produce it. Rafa can only instruct him, give him the backing he needs and Rafa had backed him by starting him in most games except Keane hasnt taken the opportunity.

We are in a cack situation with our strikers, with Torres being out and Keane out of form we dont really have anybody else to turn to. Personally I'd start Keane on the bench in saying that, give him half hour or so to come on and prove his place, and instead give somebody else a go upfront, Babel even. In the bigger picture we cant worry about Keane's confidence over Liverpools performances and results and he isnt helping the cause too much on the pitch at the moment.

In short, if a player is out of form drop him, sub him. Do something to stir the team up but for f.ucks sake dont persist with him if itts going to have a detrimental effect on the team and its results.

Spot on mate . Keane is a good player i just think rafa has :censored:

him up by switching his role in the team . He can't play alone upfront , he's was a 2nd striker to berbatov and he and berba formed the best partnership in the league last season . He's a supportive striker and with torres out , he should play deeper with babel or the player of the season for me so far kuyt as the main strikers

by **puroresu** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:03 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
puroresu wrote:Hunterlaar going to Real in Jan for £17 mil. We were robbed!!

Alfonso Alves had a exceptional scoring rate at hereenven , i think its was more than a goal a game and he was being chased by many clubs and came to boro and he has left all signs of that scoring record in holland . The dutch league is very different from any other league .

I aint judging Hunterlaar just by his goals. The boy is a very good player who has everything needed to be a success out of Holland. Alves was a player I was never sure about as even though he scored a lot of goals whenever I saw him I never thought he was that good of player. I would take Hunterlaar over Keane every single time.

by **Kash_Mountain** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:09 pm

Was listening to Talksport this morning- Alan Brazil talked about there being strong rumours flying around at the moment that RK will be going in January. I laughed at this and thought we paid £20mil for him not so long ago, so why would Rafa get rid. If he was soold, we'd only get around 10mil.

Either he is a WUM or there is something to it. Did anyone else here AB this morning or know/heard anything about the supposed "strong rumour" ?

by **dawson99** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:12 pm

Effes wrote:I agree Ace - although Keane wasn't having a good game, I'd much rather he stayed on than Ngog coming on.

I think it's premature to say keane cant partner Torres up front - Rafa needs to get coaching!

Why would anyone have wanted Keane to stay on? He had like 4 touches in the entire 1st half, condiering we had like 70% possession that's awful.
Babel should have come on earlier, but that's for a different thread. Keane has shown that he doesn't really know what to do, where to position himself, and its to the detriment of the team. He hardly looks like touching the ball, let alone score goals.

Hopefulyl he'll grab a couple tomorrow, but something needs to change.

by **mistyred** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:19 pm

Just to think Rafa passed on Queresma because he's a flair player that makes things happen,
even if he is sometimes a trickster and ball waster.

And know all those whose that thought Keane was a great buy are bieng made to look abit silly
myself included.

But it's still early i hope Keane finds his feet again because he is a very good player when on form.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:23 pm

Early days yet, I have never really rated Keane very highly, but he is a lot better than he has shown us so far.

by **Alex G.** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:08 pm

He is a good player, simply needs more time and learn to live with pressure.
Berbatov and Torres play totally different one each other.
I think keane had more freedom of movements in Tottenham playing with Berbatov who fix more the position than Torres.
But to tell you the truth keane has missed too many chances in hand to hand with the keepers this season.
Positive conclusion: only can improve.

by **redhayesy** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:32 pm

Kash_Mountain wrote:Was listening to Talksport this morning- Alan Brazil talked about there being strong rumours flying around at the moment that RK will be going in January. I laughed at this and thought we paid £20mil for him not so long ago, so why would Rafa get rid. If he was soold, we'd only get around 10mil.

Either he is a WUM or there is something to it. Did anyone else here AB this morning or know/heard anything about the supposed "strong rumour" ?

fecking hope the rumour isn't true, i want the yank tw@ts gone before robbie, cause me son want's an away shirt with keane on the back

but i won't buy any merchandise from the club untill the poison dwarf & his side kick are rid of forever!

anyway give keane more time folks i for one have confidence, he will come good for us, i think that with torres being in & out of the side with injury hasn't helped him settle into a good partnership with fernando,because we miss him so much when he is injured
keane has felt the pressure big time. & ok in a way rightly so, as we need him to produce the goals etc for the money we paid for him, & the money he earns yes he should expect pressure playing for our beloved club, but at least his attitude imho is great & is what is expected when picked, when he was subed against west ham his frustration at being pulled off was the right reaction, he wasn't happy but now know's he has to accept that he needs to contiue with his work rate but also needs to become more selfish in front of goal, take the chances that come his way to make it hard for raffa to sub him.

i rate keane & sincerly hope as i'm sure he will produce the goals & consistancy we know he is capable of.

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