Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:27 am

Mate, Keane is not Torres. Nor does Torres feed him like Berbatov did at Spurs. Both are selfish in front of goal, but the difference with Torres is that he can create something from nothing. Keane can't.
I'm not making excuses for him but he's not a "sub" for Torres. He's a different type of player. I don't think he was the best signing Rafa made (but I sould say that about a few of the donkeys he brought in...) but Keane as a lone striker is just not the way to get the best out of him. Him and Kuyt up front ain't an option either 'cos Kuyt is trying to atone for last season as well and is even more selfish (see the - ahem! - shot he had when Gerrard was a better option)...

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:27 am

Simari wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Truly felt sorry for him tonight. He was gutted when his number went up on the board and he was feeding on scraps all night. I'll tell you coming off for Ngog is not going to help the confidence nor help the team turn one point into three. A think it was a very poor substitution.

Look at his face before he got substituted, he was saying ''no, not me'' to someone, then he looked at the board, and he just put his head down.

Yes definetly, very very poor substitution, if it was for Torres, then I would understand it, because Torres can change the game, but for ngog?!

Mate, I'm not stalking you....
Replied to your comment in the match thread...
I think Keane is being made a scapegoat to be honest. I mean, every game he starts he must surely be counting down the clock until he's subbed with 20 mins to go....Can't help his morale....

Perhaps, he should focus on showing his intent in the first 70 minutes then.

It may be a vicious circle that he is caught up with, wrt his morale and being subbed, BUT - he really needs to start delivering early. Rafa has no choice but to make the substitution if Keane was not part of the game for 60 odd minutes.

Was surprised that it was Ngog upfront though, as that would have really off Babel.

Keane needs to standup and become a leader in these lean times for him. He has the ability and desire to motivate himself and those around him. At this point, he's looking for hope - when in reality he needs to understand the implications of his Price Tag and step up to lead, rather than fear about the oft-mentioned "70th minute".

He has had his fair share of starts in Torres's absence, but has yet to prove that he will deliver, atleast not this year.

The entire team performed poorly today, and there really wasn't someone to single out. But Keane was brought in for goals that we were missing in the past few years, and if we have to wait till past the 70th minute every game to wish for one, then he definitely is not cutting the mustard.

Well said lad :nod

by **Madmax** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:46 am

keano your shyte mate.... :angry:

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:51 am

He's not shyte, he just doesn't have a right partner to work with. We should bring back Heskey, because I think those two could work together.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:52 am

Simari wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Truly felt sorry for him tonight. He was gutted when his number went up on the board and he was feeding on scraps all night. I'll tell you coming off for Ngog is not going to help the confidence nor help the team turn one point into three. A think it was a very poor substitution.

Look at his face before he got substituted, he was saying ''no, not me'' to someone, then he looked at the board, and he just put his head down.

Yes definetly, very very poor substitution, if it was for Torres, then I would understand it, because Torres can change the game, but for ngog?!

Mate, I'm not stalking you....
Replied to your comment in the match thread...
I think Keane is being made a scapegoat to be honest. I mean, every game he starts he must surely be counting down the clock until he's subbed with 20 mins to go....Can't help his morale....

Perhaps, he should focus on showing his intent in the first 70 minutes then.

It may be a vicious circle that he is caught up with, wrt his morale and being subbed, BUT - he really needs to start delivering early. Rafa has no choice but to make the substitution if Keane was not part of the game for 60 odd minutes.

Was surprised that it was Ngog upfront though, as that would have really off Babel.

Keane needs to standup and become a leader in these lean times for him. He has the ability and desire to motivate himself and those around him. At this point, he's looking for hope - when in reality he needs to understand the implications of his Price Tag and step up to lead, rather than fear about the oft-mentioned "70th minute".

He has had his fair share of starts in Torres's absence, but has yet to prove that he will deliver, atleast not this year.

The entire team performed poorly today, and there really wasn't someone to single out. But Keane was brought in for goals that we were missing in the past few years, and if we have to wait till past the 70th minute every game to wish for one, then he definitely is not cutting the mustard.

Is right.

He was complete tosh tonight, and he can blame the substitution if he wants to, but the real reason is he couldn't hit a cow's a*se with a banjo if his life depended on it.

No fight in him whatsoever tonight, and he needs to sort himself out pronto if he wants to stay at this club.

by **Fo Dne** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:00 am

Simari wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Truly felt sorry for him tonight. He was gutted when his number went up on the board and he was feeding on scraps all night. I'll tell you coming off for Ngog is not going to help the confidence nor help the team turn one point into three. A think it was a very poor substitution.

Look at his face before he got substituted, he was saying ''no, not me'' to someone, then he looked at the board, and he just put his head down.

Yes definetly, very very poor substitution, if it was for Torres, then I would understand it, because Torres can change the game, but for ngog?!

Mate, I'm not stalking you....
Replied to your comment in the match thread...
I think Keane is being made a scapegoat to be honest. I mean, every game he starts he must surely be counting down the clock until he's subbed with 20 mins to go....Can't help his morale....

Perhaps, he should focus on showing his intent in the first 70 minutes then.

It may be a vicious circle that he is caught up with, wrt his morale and being subbed, BUT - he really needs to start delivering early. Rafa has no choice but to make the substitution if Keane was not part of the game for 60 odd minutes.

Was surprised that it was Ngog upfront though, as that would have really off Babel.

Keane needs to standup and become a leader in these lean times for him. He has the ability and desire to motivate himself and those around him. At this point, he's looking for hope - when in reality he needs to understand the implications of his Price Tag and step up to lead, rather than fear about the oft-mentioned "70th minute".

He has had his fair share of starts in Torres's absence, but has yet to prove that he will deliver, atleast not this year.

The entire team performed poorly today, and there really wasn't someone to single out. But Keane was brought in for goals that we were missing in the past few years, and if we have to wait till past the 70th minute every game to wish for one, then he definitely is not cutting the mustard.

Do you mean like against West Brom where he scored a couple of goals and...

... Oh yes got brought off again... :no

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:03 am

is there a legit reason why he is always taken off? im very annoyed by that. there were times when Owen or Fowler were playing poorly but ended up scoring in the end. their managers then didnt take them off. the persistence paid off. wtf is with this constant subbing! :angry:

by **Fo Dne** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:28 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:is there a legit reason why he is always taken off? im very annoyed by that. there were times when Owen or Fowler were playing poorly but ended up scoring in the end. their managers then didnt take them off. the persistence paid off. wtf is with this constant subbing!

Seems like Benitez is trying to make a :censored:

out of Keane at the minute. He's certainly showing his man management ability in its complete capacity.

More proof if needed that he won't win us the league.

by **benjy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:18 am

i'm all for subbing keane if it will add something to the team against west ham. but ngog for keane? i don't see how that would make any difference.
if it was torres coming on for keane, i don't think anyone would complain much. and i think even keane wouldn't complain.

But when you're looking for a goal at home, why would u bring off your most expensive striker? true - he hasn't been performing, but the manager bought him for 20 million pounds. surely there's something there that can produce some magic?

i looked at bellamy and keane today... and i wonder, we paid three times as much for keane. and based on yesterday's performance, keane is definitely not worth 20 million.

i would rather rafa had brought on someone like el zhar to open up the game. why he wasn't even on the bench, i have no idea. but i think el zhar should get more playing time.
start the lad, let's see what he's capable of.

by **Bam** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:33 am

I'm all for dropping Keane at the mo, I reckon a pair of braces would do a better job upfront, hanging off a CB.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:37 am

A cardboard cutout would have done a better job last night, he stunk the joint out.

Maybe he needs a target man to play upfront with him, because its not working with Gerrard, Torres or Kuyt with him.

Maybe try babel with him against Blackburn?

by **Bam** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:00 am

I think JBG may of hit the nail on the head concerning Keane, it definately seems the only way he can produce is when playing alongside a target man.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:05 am

Bam wrote:I think JBG may of hit the nail on the head concerning Keane, it definately seems the only way he can produce is when playing alongside a target man.

Where will that leave Torres though once fit? he will get the nod before Keane every day of the week.

by **Redman in wales** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:12 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Simari wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Truly felt sorry for him tonight. He was gutted when his number went up on the board and he was feeding on scraps all night. I'll tell you coming off for Ngog is not going to help the confidence nor help the team turn one point into three. A think it was a very poor substitution.

Look at his face before he got substituted, he was saying ''no, not me'' to someone, then he looked at the board, and he just put his head down.

Yes definetly, very very poor substitution, if it was for Torres, then I would understand it, because Torres can change the game, but for ngog?!

Mate, I'm not stalking you....
Replied to your comment in the match thread...
I think Keane is being made a scapegoat to be honest. I mean, every game he starts he must surely be counting down the clock until he's subbed with 20 mins to go....Can't help his morale....

Perhaps, he should focus on showing his intent in the first 70 minutes then.

It may be a vicious circle that he is caught up with, wrt his morale and being subbed, BUT - he really needs to start delivering early. Rafa has no choice but to make the substitution if Keane was not part of the game for 60 odd minutes.

Was surprised that it was Ngog upfront though, as that would have really off Babel.

Keane needs to standup and become a leader in these lean times for him. He has the ability and desire to motivate himself and those around him. At this point, he's looking for hope - when in reality he needs to understand the implications of his Price Tag and step up to lead, rather than fear about the oft-mentioned "70th minute".

He has had his fair share of starts in Torres's absence, but has yet to prove that he will deliver, atleast not this year.

The entire team performed poorly today, and there really wasn't someone to single out. But Keane was brought in for goals that we were missing in the past few years, and if we have to wait till past the 70th minute every game to wish for one, then he definitely is not cutting the mustard.

Do you mean like against West Brom where he scored a couple of goals and...

... Oh yes got brought off again...

I mentioned this in the match thread.

he was subbed in the first game he scored in. he spent the next game on the bench. He scored 2 goals against West Brom and was subbed after 60 minutes .... it doesnt seem to matter if makes the opportunities count or not - he's still gonna get subbed - and it's ruining him

You might argue that this is Rafa's way... this was not the case for kuyt.

The 1st half of last season) before we went 4-2-3-1 with kuyt wide right), kuyt was playing :censored:

and not scoring (much the same as keanes run now) - but more often than not, kuyt still got 90 minutes - and in so doing, managed a couple of late goals when he'd done nothing for 85 minutes. - He was compared to a headless chicken by many on here, and was called a lot worse!

I think if rafa employed the same tactics with keane as he did with kuyt last season, we might see a return to the robbie keane of old

---

On a side note - imo I think crouch would have been a perfect partner for keane today. Would have also got on the end of a few of those crosses. but that is by-the-by, as that ship has sailed.

by **bigmick** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:15 am

We're in the unfortunate situation with Keane where not only is he personally not settling, but his very presence is in my view anyway part of the reason why Torres hasn't really got going either. I really like Keane, but there will come a point somewhere down the track where we have to make a judgement whether we stick or twist as far as he's concerned. From what we've seen so far, there can't be many people who think him and Torres forming an effective partnership is exactly imminent, while when Torres is out he can't really fill in either as she's not a lone striker.

I suggested somewhere else an off the wall theory about going back to Tottenham with the proposal that we take either Bent or Pavleychenko plus cash, and they take Keane back. They fairly obviously need someone to play off one of their two strikers, while we fairly obviously need someone who can change it up in games like yesterday, and also partner Torres in games which it is needed. I always thought Crouch and Torres were on the verge of somethign happening, so perhaps we could consider a target man option.

the other way is of course to look again for S@ints second creative striker thingy. Someone sometime will take a chance on Arshavin (I think he's a smashing player meself), and there are others around who would also fit the bill. Alternatively we could look at an Henri-like option, or of course we could stick with Robbie Keane. Van Persie's second goal at Chelsea though is the difference between what we're getting and what we need. Kuyt proved again he's a no-no as a striker, and it just ain't happening for Keane at the moment, choose whoevers fault it is.

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