Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:35 pm

There’s quite a few threads out there all discussing players not showing what they are capable of week in week out... players underperforming and questions of whether certain players should be picked with the side performing the way they are atm..
We have criticized pretty much every single player at some point so far this season ... Keane, Mascherano, Kuyt, even Torres and Gerrard at some point..

Whenever we play badly there’s always one or two players who either didn’t perform or missed sitters...etc etc

For me it goes way beyond that... the players we have are mostly very good players who would play top level football wherever they are... Many of those players, however, seem to look like average players as soon as they put on the red jersey... and that is when the fans start to get on their backs..
Now im not saying the players we have now are poor players or anything... but the performances we have put out in most games so far this season have been - generally speaking- poor...
We'v played 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 and we've looked poor in both formations... we can’t break teams down and we lack creativity and flair higher up the pitch...
Now imo... a team with players of such quality failing to perform or even create enough clear chances in so many games has to be due to poor tactics by the manager..
Our wide areas are yet again starting to look rather poor.. i know Riera has been very good for us since hes been here and hes offered some much needed balance down the left side... but thats all he's done... down the right Kuyt well... lets just say he's not a right winger or a right midfilder or anything... hes been poor in my books and while hes scored a few goals this season he hasnt done what his role in the team would require him to do ( beat his man, cross a ball, stretch defenses..etc)
Imo we’ll play our best football when we have 2 genuine wingers, Gerrard and Alonso in the middle, and 2 strikers upfront… Given the player we have now… I feel that Pennant could very well be our best option down the right flank… Riera down the left if played as a left winger in a midfield of 4 rather than the left winger role with the lone man upfront would do a whole lot better imo… He’s the kind of player who likes to link up with players who are near him and looks to attack spaces in wide areas create by forwards… with mascherano playing closest to him and Torres or Keane as a lone striker in that 4-5-1 he’s offered neither… Again Kuyt down the right is a waste of space and Gerrard while being a brilliant footballer is quite simply not utilized for the better of the team when played as an attacking midfielder…
You can argue all you want that Riera, Mascherano, Kuyt, Keane and Torres are all underperforming but in my books Rafa needs to give up his negative tactics of playing 9 players on the pitch who can defend better than they can attack… Pennant has to be given a go and if Keane needs to be dropped then Kuyt surely needs to be played upfront instead…

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:43 pm

In this day and age it's always the manager who gets the blame. If the players drastically underperform, it's always the man at the top who carries the can.

Last night was nothing to do with the manager. It was basically our strongest team, but apart from the first 30 minutes we were shocking. You can't blame the manager for players not being able to pass a ball to another red shirt.

by **burjennio** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:54 pm

Pitch is too quick. Something ive noticed over the last few home matches is that its difficult to move the ball well and control it, and LFC only look better at home when they start playing direct (ie a goal down and pushing hard). The amount of goals conceded this season at home, how many have been slow patient build up? Now how many have been a quick cross from a deep wide area or a 50- yard punt up the pitch? The Reds look far more composed and controlled away from home, as theyre able to move the ball better along the ground. I dont care if you all think im mental, thats my theory and im stickin to it

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:02 pm

but we're joint top of the league, last 16 in european cup, we have the best striker in the world on our team - lifes not too bad hey? :;):

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:07 pm

I completely blame the manager for getting us joint top of the league, into the knock-out rounds of the CL and making some of us believe again that we might challenge for the title. Nice one, Rafa. :cool:

by **woof woof !** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:24 pm

The teams performance overall is less than sharp and our movement is for the most part increasingly predictable. We're definitely lacking some flair and a show of imagination. After the first half in last nights match I thought we'd come out and step it up a gear, it just didn't happen. We're joint top of the prem and into the last sixteen of the CL despite playing like carthorses for much of the season,thats great, but our apparent inability to find better form and inject a bit more creativity in our game is beginning to make me wonder just how long either of our challenges in those competitions will be sustained.

Not a whinge folks, we are after all in a very good position but if we're honest with ourselves our football hasn't been the best and we have certainly rode our luck on a number of occasions.

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:34 pm

woof woof ! wrote:The teams performance overall is less than sharp and our movement is for the most part increasingly predictable. We're definitely lacking some flair and a show of imagination. After the first half in last nights match I thought we'd come out and step it up a gear, it just didn't happen. We're joint top of the prem and into the last sixteen of the CL despite playing like carthorses for much of the season,thats great, but our apparent inability to find better form and inject a bit more creativity in our game is beginning to make me wonder just how long either of our challenges in those competitions will be sustained.

Not a whinge folks, we are after all in a very good position but if we're honest with ourselves our football hasn't been the best and we have certainly rode our luck on a number of occasions.

I agree woof. Like it or not, some of our attacking play since the win at Chelsea has been abysmal. We have been struggling to create chances in a number of games (Pompey, Atletico, Fulham, Marseille) or missing a hatfull when we have created chances (Spurs and Bolton).

I just hope the players take advantage of the extra two days off this weekend and come out all guns blazing against West Ham.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:14 pm

Ok first of I put on my bullet proof underpants as this might get messy , but dare i say that really we havent played well all season not really free flowing football apart from odd game and really good goal.

Now don't get me wrong I only see this as a plus as if we are where we are now and we are not playing well when we do finaly hit top gear we will be some team.

What you think ? maybe I am bit to harsh ?

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:18 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Ok first of I put on my bullet proof underpants as this might get messy , but dare i say that really we havent played well all season not really free flowing football apart from odd game and really good goal.

Now don't get me wrong I only see this as a plus as if we are where we are now and we are not playing well when we do finaly hit top gear we will be some team.

What you think ? maybe I am bit to harsh ?

Not harsh...

Just clueless.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:21 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Ok first of I put on my bullet proof underpants as this might get messy , but dare i say that really we havent played well all season not really free flowing football apart from odd game and really good goal.

Now don't get me wrong I only see this as a plus as if we are where we are now and we are not playing well when we do finaly hit top gear we will be some team.

What you think ? maybe I am bit to harsh ?

I don't disagree, mate. Compared to some of the expansive football we played in the second half of last season we're deffo not in top gear yet. Still, the idea that we should be assigning 'blame' for what's going wrong rings a little hollow given how well things have gone to date. Yes, yes, there's a long way to go yet and all that but, like Scottbot, I get a little frustrated when people carry on like we've been dire all season. You don't sit joint-top at the end of November playing dire, negative, sub-par football in the Premier League.

by **tubby** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:22 pm

woof woof ! wrote:but our apparent inability to find better form and inject a bit more creativity in our game is beginning to make me wonder just how long either of our challenges in those competitions will be sustained.

Key point. Which is why I have not been jumping on the "we ar title challangers" bandwagon as I know if we keep playing like this it is only a matter of time before it all goes tits up and everyone is once again flooding the DIC thread with chants of yanks out.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:25 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Ok first of I put on my bullet proof underpants as this might get messy , but dare i say that really we havent played well all season not really free flowing football apart from odd game and really good goal.

Now don't get me wrong I only see this as a plus as if we are where we are now and we are not playing well when we do finaly hit top gear we will be some team.

What you think ? maybe I am bit to harsh ?

I don't disagree, mate. Compared to some of the expansive football we played in the second half of last season we're deffo not in top gear yet. Still, the idea that we should be assigning 'blame' for what's going wrong rings a little hollow given how well things have gone to date. Yes, yes, there's a long way to go yet and all that but, like Scottbot, I get a little frustrated when people carry on like we've been dire all season. You don't sit joint-top at the end of November playing dire, negative, sub-par football in the Premier League.

Yes I agree we must be doing some thing right my only fear from now till end of season is just the goals where are they going to come from SG can only do so much and Torres hasn't hit any sort of form this season kuyt now is what no goal in 3 so where they going to come from ?

I say put babel up front for 2-3 games and see what happens you never know he must just prove a point if he is played where HE likes to play. :nod

by **taff** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:28 pm

How strange that rotation is probably what we need to sutain the title challenge over the course of the season

I would look at a few things that are hampering us and a few things that might help us

I dont think Torrse has had the best of seasons so far and has been stopstart, now if he hits form its happy days but at the same time he needs game time to hit form and that can result in a stuttering performance. The same applies to Keane although in a watered down way,

The team looked a bit out of it last night but got the result, this is a bit of a blimp in the season but luckily not one that has cost us too much like November last year. We could see the emergence of one or two fringe players to ease the burden or even a signing in January to freshen things up. Babel and Benayoun spring to mind as they should be fairly rested

We just need to see this out and win again

by **Owzat** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:33 am

Bad Bob wrote:I completely blame the manager for getting us joint top of the league, into the knock-out rounds of the CL and making some of us believe again that we might challenge for the title. Nice one, Rafa.

Didn't Houllier get "us joint top of the league" ? That didn't end too well. You need to be there in March time, not December. Last 16 of the Champions League isn't an achievement, QFs is a minimum for a big club.

Is it coincidence our best finish in the Premiership came when we got knocked out at the last 16 stage of the Champions League? We also won the FA Cup, I see a number of people are quite happy for us to get knocked out of cup competitions even though we may end up potless come the end of the season. It's 138 games since we last won anything and that was the Community Shield, 140 since we won a proper trophy.

Yes we're in a good position, but we could be a lot better positioned. I was looking at Chelsea's record last night and realised fairly quickly that most of their dropped points have come against the 'big four' plus Tottenham

Chelsea 2008/9

Overall P15 W10 D3 L2 PTS 33

vs LIV/ARS/MNU/TOT P4 W0 D2 L2 PTS 2
vs Rest of the Premiership P11 W10 D1 L0 PTS 31

Only other dropped points coming against Newcastle. We've won four games against top ten sides, but need to be more efficient at winning home games ie not draw so many. We might then be in a position that dropping points in our remaining games against Chelsea (h), Man Utd (a) and Arsenal (h & a), might not have a serious impact. I think the Scots last campaign, and Wales a few campaigns ago, got carried away with a good win over good opposition. They started well, but 'forgot' that each group has more than one strong side and one win over a strong side still leaves plenty of others games to slip up in.

by **red187** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:09 am

Its easy to say blame the players and the manager, but maybe just maybe we need to take a look at ourselves.
I was at the Fulham home game and the Marseille game and if we are honest the atmospheres are getting steadily worse, we are starting to expect easy wins against a strong Premiership team and a good French team.
It is obviously starting to effect our players almost all of which have never won or even come close to winning a league championship.
We need more patience, yes the Anfield crowd is entitled to let out a groan of frustration when passes go astray or when easy chances go begging, but surely for the benefit of our inexperienced players we need to lower our expectations at home matches, we are Liverpool we will win the majority of our home games but with the crowds full backing we will succeed.
Now I know I will get slaughtered for having a go at the immortal and unquestionable Anfield crowd, but obviously its not just me who believes this as Rafas following interview confirms.

RAFA: WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER
Jimmy Rice 01 December 2008
Rafa Benitez has called on the Anfield faithful to play their part as the Reds go in search of top spot in the Premier League against West Ham this evening.
The boss understands the kind of frustration witnessed when Liverpool failed to break the deadlock at home to Fulham nine days ago.

However, Benitez knows such nervousness can transmit to his players - a situation he is hoping to avoid as the Reds continue their quest for a first Premier League title.

Following Chelsea's defeat to Arsenal yesterday, the Reds will take over at the top of the table if they take at least a point from tonight's clash.

"We noticed the atmosphere the other day but the fans know we are together. They know it has to be like that when you want to win trophies," the Spaniard told Liverpoolfc.tv.

"They can win us the game, but we know we have to do something on the pitch, then they can react.

"You can understand them being nervous but it isn't March or April yet.

"Maybe it transmits to some of the players but we are together. The fans know how important their support is."

Liverpool have drawn two and lost two of the last seven games after their best ever start to a Premier League campaign.

Benitez accepts his side have lost a touch of confidence, while on the pitch the tempo is not at the level witnessed earlier in the season.

The boss added: "The last two games we didn't play with the same tempo and confidence. We had a meeting with the staff and talked about how to get these things back.

"But the message was still very positive - we are top of the Premier League and have qualified for the knockout stages of the Champions League.

"The idea is very simple: try to do the things we were doing before, and try to give the players confidence. We were playing good football, creating chances and not giving teams many opportunities.

"It is not easy for us to work any harder because we are running even more than before, so we just need to have more of the ball and keep possession, then we'll improve."

Liverpool FC Forum

Blame game - Players v.s manager

Who is online