Liverpool FC Forum

[Big Niall]

Taking into account all the good, okay and poor buys hasn't Wenger done a lot better than Rafa - especially taking cost into account?

[LittleP]

Its a problem of psychology I think.

We started the season with 2 players for every position...and everyone, especially the newcomers thought that they would have to play out of their skin to lay claim to a spot...but that isnt how it has worked out.

Players like torres and masch who have put in incredible performances have been dropped constantly.

With players like crouch and risse (consistent underperformers) getting just as many games, the liverpool squad have lost a big motivating factor.

Rafa is determined to give every player regular games regardless of their form, ability, attitude or effort on the pitch....and if every player is guaranteed no more or less games than the rest, why should they try extra hard to stand out from the pack?

[bigmick]

I agree with the thrust of what you are saying, but to be fair it wouldn't be correct to say every player is certain to get "no more or less games than the rest". The selection policy is not as random as that although it may seem like it sometimes, and clearly Crouch for example has hardly featured (although admittedly given the standard of his performances it is arguable that he has been seen too much)

As an add-on and in direct contradiction to what I've just said, I'd quite liek to see more of Crouch. Work that one out   

[112-1077774096]

crouch has had 86 minutes in the league, this is our top scorer last season, only 86 minutes yet people are judging him as being useless on less than one game whilst playing with a new strike partner, then they tell others we know nothing about football

[Smeg]

True, but when you look at it, all the foreign players that came and gone were all very similar, and replaced other foreigners in their roles. I'm thinking Fergie just nailed the ballance of the home grown, which were the base of the team, with the extra talent of the foreign players. Had he replaced any of those key home grown players, I dare say United would have been a spent force already. Even today, they have the right mix of national players mixed with oversea's ones.

You fail to account for the fact that something happened that has never and will never happen again.

7 Premier League level home grown players all came off the production line in the space of 12 months.

NEVER happen again that.

Over a period of years we had a VERY comparible list of players. McManaman could have played in the same team as Gerrard, Fowler, Owen, Thompsion and Carragher. Two of which were world class players in Owen and Gerrard, one of Liverpool's biggest legends in Robbie and the most exciting english player of the mid nineties in McManaman.

Not to mention players like Matteo and Wright who were also decent players without being spectacular.

Had the management got it right, theres a hell of a lot of talent there to build a team around.

[Smeg]

crouch has had 86 minutes in the league, this is our top scorer last season, only 86 minutes yet people are judging him as being useless on less than one game whilst playing with a new strike partner, then they tell others we know nothing about football

Crouch is not, never has been and never will be good enough. Its not 85 minutes worth of judgement. Its two seasons and 86 minutes worth of judgement.

[112-1077774096]

crouch has had 86 minutes in the league, this is our top scorer last season, only 86 minutes yet people are judging him as being useless on less than one game whilst playing with a new strike partner, then they tell others we know nothing about football

Crouch is not, never has been and never will be good enough. Its not 85 minutes worth of judgement. Its two seasons and 86 minutes worth of judgement.

and he was top scorer last season so gawd help us if he isnt good enough

[Smeg]

Sound, he's good enough then...

Just like Arbeloa and Finnan are.

And Agger, Carragher, Pennant, Gerrard, Torres, Voronin, Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko, Reina and Bennayoun...

As well as the rest of the team...

Must just have a manager then.

[112-1077774096]

Sound, he's good enough then...

Just like Arbeloa and Finnan are.

And Agger, Carragher, Pennant, Gerrard, Torres, Voronin, Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko, Reina and Bennayoun...

As well as the rest of the team...

Must just have a manager then.

nail/head   

sadly mate we will never get a chance to see how good our team are, we never play a settled team and we never set up to our strengths, we set up to counter the other team, other must love it when they play us as they don't have to worry about what we will do, they just have to worry about breaking us down

[dawson99]

we dont need 11 world class players, whatw e need is a squad that will play well and compliment each other. we got a good spine of reina, carra stevie and torres, its the leaves around the trunk of our foundation that needs to blossum.

We cant complain about losing agger and alonso being the reason why we couldnt beat marseille or any other little team weve played recently. And we cant just look at rotation. It's an amalgamation of things, one of the biggest being we started off so well and had our ehads in the clouds a bit. the players are the ones who need to show us what they can do, and against everton they shall

[Smeg]

Sound, he's good enough then...

Just like Arbeloa and Finnan are.

And Agger, Carragher, Pennant, Gerrard, Torres, Voronin, Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko, Reina and Bennayoun...

As well as the rest of the team...

Must just have a manager then.

nail/head   

sadly mate we will never get a chance to see how good our team are, we never play a settled team and we never set up to our strengths, we set up to counter the other team, other must love it when they play us as they don't have to worry about what we will do, they just have to worry about breaking us down

Rubbish.

I'm sorry, but at that level if you don't prepare to play against the opposition you'd get destroyed. You have to exploit their weaknesses, even against the Derby's of the world.

They will do their homework on your team and they will find out the best way to defend against ALL of your players and can shut you out. Just as Birmingham done at Anfield.

To say to your players, go out and just play football is absoloute suicide. They need to be instructed on what to do where, what moves to use in situations etc. Its the base from which they perform and without that base you need one hell of a team to even finish top four. I'm talking about world class players in every position.

Something people who've never been close to the game will never understand is the level of detail that goes into winning these games is unreal, whether its Derby or Manchester United you need to pay the same amount of attention.

The sole reason we will not win the league under Rafa isn't rotation. That has a little bit to do with it, not as much as some fools are making out... The main reason is his signing of players who aren't good enough and the signing of squad players, and "possibillities"/options all the time instead of out an out quality. He's more concerned with a squad than having an excellent first team. For me it would be the other way round. Build your team first, then chop and change the squad players. You MUST have at least 7 players that are first team quality. We have Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso/Mascherano (one of at a time not both) and Torres.

Our weakest positions are centre forward, centre half and left wing. Even a left back now... EXACTLY the same as last season. Finnan also isn't getting any younger...

Our best points total came when we had an excellent side on paper. No coincidence really... last season it was alot weaker than the previous and we struggled. This season its between the two, maybe when Kewell's fit we'll see the same standard of side.

I said last year we NEEDED two forwards a centre half and a left winger. We signed one striker of the required quailty.

Now we're falling further away.

[66-1112520797]

crouch has had 86 minutes in the league, this is our top scorer last season, only 86 minutes yet people are judging him as being useless on less than one game whilst playing with a new strike partner, then they tell others we know nothing about football

Crouch is not, never has been and never will be good enough. Its not 85 minutes worth of judgement. Its two seasons and 86 minutes worth of judgement.

And Matteo was ?   

Kin ell Stu, he was pretty c.rap IMO.

[Smeg]

crouch has had 86 minutes in the league, this is our top scorer last season, only 86 minutes yet people are judging him as being useless on less than one game whilst playing with a new strike partner, then they tell others we know nothing about football

Crouch is not, never has been and never will be good enough. Its not 85 minutes worth of judgement. Its two seasons and 86 minutes worth of judgement.

And Matteo was ?   

Kin ell Stu, he was pretty c.rap IMO.

Where did I say Matteo was a great player?

Nothing constructive to say as usual.

[JBG]

My view on all of these kind of things is that while players can be blamed for one off results or the odd shoddy game, in any sequence of events or any long term run the buck stops with the manager, because its his job to get the players performing.

[Smeg]

The last 3 games, tacitcally we've been poor. Gerrard has been awful. As has Riise and we don't have enough quality to have players playing poorly and still win games.