Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon.  How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league.  PAtience my frineds patience.

Not a valid point, sorry. You can't compare Ferguson to Rafa, or indeed the league and style of football being played. Things have changed drastically since he won the first PL. Most notably in the transfere market. There were very few foreigners in the league at the time, and Fergies main draw of talent came not from mega bucks signings from abroad, but from the young talent that grew up playing the type of football that was known to win leagues at the time from their youth ranks.

If you look at our best players over the past 15 years or so, give or take, they have mostly all been bought or brought in from our youth teams. If you took all the best of those over the years and kept them to make one team Liverpool team (Gerrard, Owen, Folwer, McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp etc etc) then I dare say we would have won the league more than once already. The trouble is, we havn't spawned enough of these players through the academy. The backbone of United through the years has been just this. It's probably the reason why they havn't been as prolific in Europe. We've had too many teams with so many foreign players over the years, that as soon as we got a half decent manager, we were bound to do well on the continent.

Cantona
Kanchelskis
Schmeichel

3 big reasons for their successs and not home grown.

Well, certainly they were a factor, yes. But Cantona was not always there through the majority of their success and nor was Kanchelskis. If you ask me, the two far more pivotal players in those kind of posstions were Keane and Giggs and even Scholes. Without those three, United wouldn't be half the force they were and are today. Schmeichel, on the other hand, was by far their most important foreign player. Certainly, they maintained their dominance and strength through their youth system.

They are the first win.

All three stayed until 1995.

Then Cryff, Johnsen, Poborsky, Solskajaer, Van de Gouw where all added.

Then Yorke, Blomquist, Berg and stamm in 1998.

You cant say they based it on homegrown mate.

the homegrown was in hte squad but not always the first 11.

[murphy0151]

fu.cking hell boys. Rafa is frustrating sometimes yes.  But look out there now around the world at managers.  Who out there do you actualy want?  Im not saying give him bloody ten years but im not going to be one asking for his head if he dosnt deliver the league this year.

I didint for one minute think we would wint he league this year.  Even before we started playing badly.  Can you hnestly say that you thought we would win the league this year?  The gap was huge last year, but his year it will be allmost certainly be closer.

[LittleHobo]

so how long do you give him then?

i worry about his judgement

not buying a centre back in the summer with pace to fill in for agger and carra

not buying a world class winger and persisting with pennant (a player who is good yes, but not consistent enough for a title winning side)

and the left wing side which is soo pityfull we may aswell play with ten men

[Leonmc0708]

so how long do you give him then?

15 minutes then the got to go.

[murphy0151]

so how long do you give him then?

i worry about his judgement

not buying a centre back in the summer with pace to fill in for agger and carra

not buying a world class winger and persisting with pennant (a player who is good yes, but not consistent enough for a title winning side)

and the left wing side which is soo pityfull we may aswell play with ten men

It dosnt really matter how long id give him. Bloodyhell where at the begining of septemeber and unbeatin in the league.  Yes we have played poor but what other top 4 team in the league hasnt played poor this season apart from Arsenal?  Yet we are still only 6 points behind them. 

He tried to sign a center half. FAiled with his attempt.

Pennant's dosnt deliever every game but to single him out for this is harsh. 

Left wing has been a problem for a while now. If we know that im quite sure Rafa knows it to.

[Wilhelmsson]

Yes, the players need to take equal responsibility to the manager, but it would appear that Rafa and the playing squad are not on the same wavelength and for this, Rafa must take responsibility.

Rafa signed these players, now Rafa has to make them work together in a coherent fashion. If he cannot do this, then he only has himself to blame.

[Emerald Red]

Ill ask you one more thing before I shoot the moon.  How long did it take Alex Ferguson to win the league.  PAtience my frineds patience.

Not a valid point, sorry. You can't compare Ferguson to Rafa, or indeed the league and style of football being played. Things have changed drastically since he won the first PL. Most notably in the transfere market. There were very few foreigners in the league at the time, and Fergies main draw of talent came not from mega bucks signings from abroad, but from the young talent that grew up playing the type of football that was known to win leagues at the time from their youth ranks.

If you look at our best players over the past 15 years or so, give or take, they have mostly all been bought or brought in from our youth teams. If you took all the best of those over the years and kept them to make one team Liverpool team (Gerrard, Owen, Folwer, McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp etc etc) then I dare say we would have won the league more than once already. The trouble is, we havn't spawned enough of these players through the academy. The backbone of United through the years has been just this. It's probably the reason why they havn't been as prolific in Europe. We've had too many teams with so many foreign players over the years, that as soon as we got a half decent manager, we were bound to do well on the continent.

Cantona
Kanchelskis
Schmeichel

3 big reasons for their successs and not home grown.

Well, certainly they were a factor, yes. But Cantona was not always there through the majority of their success and nor was Kanchelskis. If you ask me, the two far more pivotal players in those kind of posstions were Keane and Giggs and even Scholes. Without those three, United wouldn't be half the force they were and are today. Schmeichel, on the other hand, was by far their most important foreign player. Certainly, they maintained their dominance and strength through their youth system.

They are the first win.

All three stayed until 1995.

Then Cryff, Johnsen, Poborsky, Solskajaer, Van de Gouw where all added.

Then Yorke, Blomquist, Berg and stamm in 1998.

You cant say they based it on homegrown mate.

the homegrown was in hte squad but not always the first 11.

True, but when you look at it, all the foreign players that came and gone were all very similar, and replaced other foreigners in their roles. I'm thinking Fergie just nailed the ballance of the home grown, which were the base of the team, with the extra talent of the foreign players. Had he replaced any of those key home grown players, I dare say United would have been a spent force already. Even today, they have the right mix of national players mixed with oversea's ones. I think we only had that ballance right once in the Evan's/Houllier era, but just a shame our defense was so poor at the time. I dunno. Maybe I'm talking cack. I'm just trying to lend another view on the reason for our mysterious form of late. Could be all just the lack of ballance.

Then again, I'd have to concied to the fact that this opinion would be blown out of the water when looking at PL winning teams of Chelsea and Arsenal respectivly.

[Bad Bob]

Well, I'm shocked-- a thread that was supposed to focus on the players has turned into another "blame Rafa" session.  Will wonders never cease.

[LFC2007]

Well, I'm shocked-- a thread that was supposed to focus on the players has turned into another "blame Rafa" session.  Will wonders never cease.

True, all this time I've been wondering who shot JFK, Lee Harvey Oswald they said, was it feck. It was Rafa all along.

[Leonmc0708]

True, but when you look at it, all the foreign players that came and gone were all very similar, and replaced other foreigners in their roles. I'm thinking Fergie just nailed the ballance of the home grown, which were the base of the team, with the extra talent of the foreign players. Had he replaced any of those key home grown players, I dare say United would have been a spent force already. Even today, they have the right mix of national players mixed with oversea's ones.

You fail to account for the fact that something happened that has never and will never happen again.

7 Premier League level home grown players all came off the production line in the space of 12 months.

NEVER happen again that.

[Ciggy]

If we batter the blueshite all will be forgotten and forgiven.

The derbies are the two most important games of the season cant be doing with that shower taking another 4 points off us this season.

[destro]

If we batter the blueshite all will be forgotten and forgiven.

The derbies are the two most important games of the season cant be doing with that shower taking another 4 points off us this season.

And if we don't ! It doesn't even bare thinking about 

Some on here are already designing their "Rafa out banners as we speak"

Just in case !

[Ciggy]

Some on here are already designing their "Rafa out banners as we speak"

Well they can fuck off and support someone else then.

[Big Niall]

mabe a bit unfair to compare Rafa to Wenger but Arsene Wenger is a genius at spotting some player you never heard off and making him into a top player who fits into their style of play.

Rafa has FAR outspent Wenger (Aresnal probably nil transfer cost over last 10 years when take their massive sales into account)

We just don't like like we are moving towards winning the league, cup comps are possible but not the league.

[dawson99]

lets not forget all the bad buys wenger has done as well:

jeffers, that keeper, reyez, theres a fair few, but his good buys have been stunning

then again, cant really fault what we spent on certain players either: hypia, risse, finnan