The players - Its time they shouldered the blame

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:25 am

Rafael Benitez has had more than his fair share of critisism over the last few weeks or so. None more than myself have heavily critised the man, while I still suspect his "R's" have ultimately led us to our current dip in form. Its time we looked elsewhere to figure out or just speculate what is going wrong with us at the moment.

As of yet we're not in a crisis, but it appears we're on a downward slope and its gathering momentum, or so it seems.

Why has this suddenly happened ? As fans we'll probably never find out, and at the end of it, it may just turn out to be a dip in form. As fans we can only speculate, Rotation (I'm sick to death of that word), Pako leaving, unhappy players, injured players, the list could go on.

But say if we just put all these "conspiracy theories" on the back burner for a moment and consider that we do genuinely have a dip in form. As a football fan I find It quite amazing how a team lose's form and above all else confidence. Where does it come from ?

Well if we're saying for a minute here that we've just dipped in form, I think we'll have to go back to Fratton Park as that seems the obvious starting point from where things have gone pair shaped for us. Its probably no coincidence that this fixture was the first one back after a week of international duties. No doubt this would of hampered preparations for the trip to Pompey, and as we do now we looked lethargic and short of idea's. From there on its just snowballed and snowballed away from us.

Maybe the result and the performance of that games, left the players themselves to a certain extent dejected. As before this we were playing some terrific stuff, and we looked the business. How drastically it has all changed though. Amazing now that regular first team members cant even pick a simple five-yard pass out to eachother, amazing in the fact that our confidence has been shot to pieces. We could probably never put our finger on what is considered the cause, and maybe the players couldnt tell you either.

I reckon though through arguing and debating on Newkitt one of us has probably called it right. Rotation, Pako leaving whatever it is I think they've all combined to one big negative aura  :D  to put us were we are in current form.

The manager can only do so much, like I said I dont think he's made matters easier himself for the team. I certainly feel that his tinkering would take up a large percentage of that negative aura we seem to possess at the moment. But after that its down to the players, their the ones who are sent out onto the field, their the one's who are paid (very well I might add) to play the game proffesionally.
They have to shoulder the blame also, this is the time for club captain Steven Gerrard to really earn his lofty wages. He should be rallying the players, putting fire in their belly. Talking over personel or proffesional problems with his fellow teamates. The players need to look up to someone, not just on the pitch but on the training ground. Its high time Stevie showed his character, IF he has the character to help pull the boys round. Their a decent bunch of footballers we know that, but as a team their lacking what every winning team needs right now and thats confidence. Carragher also, he could help out lifting morale right about now, for me he seems to have the better character of the two Scousers in confidence boosting wise, not just because he appears a loud mouth on the pitch  :D  but because of his percieved persona.

It's time the players dug themselves out of this hole, it doesnt matter who or whats got them into this. Dare I say it around here but all though we lack many English players, its time this team showed it's Englishness, and fought collectively as a whole and for the manager, themselves and just as importantly US.
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:42 am

Bamaga man wrote:As of yet we're not in a crisis, but it appears we're on a downward slope and its gathering momentum, or so it seems.



Well if we're saying for a minute here that we've just dipped in form, I think we'll have to go back to Fratton Park as that seems the obvious starting point from where things have gone pair shaped for us. Its probably no coincidence that this fixture was the first one back after a week of international duties. No doubt this would of hampered preparations for the trip to Pompey, and as we do now we looked lethargic and short of idea's. From there on its just snowballed and snowballed away from us.

so all the more reason to steady the ship and forgo a tactic that isn't working for the good of the club, rather than keep trying to force the issue how about fixing it rather than keep trying to force it until it  breaks even more, and funnily enough it has broken even more
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Postby Red @ Heart » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:46 am

Rafael Benitez has had more than his fair share of critisism over the last few weeks or so. None more than myself have heavily critised the man, while I still suspect his "R's" have ultimately led us to our current dip in form. Its time we looked elsewhere to figure out or just speculate what is going wrong with us at the moment.


the players dont pick the team or select what rotation they should play.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:48 am

peewee wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:As of yet we're not in a crisis, but it appears we're on a downward slope and its gathering momentum, or so it seems.



Well if we're saying for a minute here that we've just dipped in form, I think we'll have to go back to Fratton Park as that seems the obvious starting point from where things have gone pair shaped for us. Its probably no coincidence that this fixture was the first one back after a week of international duties. No doubt this would of hampered preparations for the trip to Pompey, and as we do now we looked lethargic and short of idea's. From there on its just snowballed and snowballed away from us.

so all the more reason to steady the ship and forgo a tactic that isn't working for the good of the club, rather than keep trying to force the issue how about fixing it rather than keep trying to force it until it  breaks even more, and funnily enough it has broken even more

Wow, Peewee you know I agree with you. After all I am "apparently married to ya"  :love: v :D

Of course the manager has to sort himself out, but equally the players to mate.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:49 am

Bamaga man wrote:"apparently married to ya"  :love: v :D

brilliant    :laugh:
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:52 am

Red wrote:
Rafael Benitez has had more than his fair share of critisism over the last few weeks or so. None more than myself have heavily critised the man, while I still suspect his "R's" have ultimately led us to our current dip in form. Its time we looked elsewhere to figure out or just speculate what is going wrong with us at the moment.


the players dont pick the team or select what rotation they should play.

But hasnt Rafa more or less played the same team in the last two games. Wonders will never cease.

If he sticks with the same team and a stable one, I believe the team will come good. And of course its going to take more than two games to do that.

But still I think there has been alot of critisism around here of the Spaniard. Like I said most of the logical critisism is well deserved IMO. But lets not forget the players play the part too, and we should remember that and not shy away from that either.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:28 am

ITs nothing to do with the players, they are just robots who do whatever Rafa tells them.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:31 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:ITs nothing to do with the players, they are just robots who do whatever Rafa tells them.

As a mod could you not post something of adequate relevance to my thread, the sarcasm thread is -------> that way fella.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:34 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:ITs nothing to do with the players, they are just robots who do whatever Rafa tells them.

As a mod could you not post something of adequate relevance to my thread, the sarcasm thread is -------> that way fella.

Good point.

I will make sure that humour and sarcasm are placed in the relevant thread hence forth.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:34 am

Wrong. On balance you can say that overall Rafa's tinkering causes instability in the team. But no one ever mentions when a rotated side goes out and wins.

I have no problem with the rotation or team selection for the spurs game, we hit the post twice, should of scored more than two and for once Jamie Carragher was at fault (for part of, if not both goals). The dropped points were a direct result of players mistakes and missed chances, end of.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:37 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Wrong. On balance you can say that overall Rafa's tinkering causes instability in the team. But no one ever mentions when a rotated side goes out and wins.

I have no problem with the rotation or team selection for the spurs game, we hit the post twice, should of scored more than two and for once Jamie Carragher was at fault (for part of, if not both goals). The dropped points were a direct result of players mistakes and missed chances, end of.

Ah yes, but if they had played together more then they would have got the ball in hte net and not hit the post, and Carragher would hav been able to concentrate better and not ball watch.

See its the rotation.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:43 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Wrong. On balance you can say that overall Rafa's tinkering causes instability in the team. But no one ever mentions when a rotated side goes out and wins.

I have no problem with the rotation or team selection for the spurs game, we hit the post twice, should of scored more than two and for once Jamie Carragher was at fault (for part of, if not both goals). The dropped points were a direct result of players mistakes and missed chances, end of.

Ah yes, but if they had played together more then they would have got the ball in hte net and not hit the post, and Carragher would hav been able to concentrate better and not ball watch.

See its the rotation.

Both of these posts have no real relevance to this thread the rotation thread is over there.

I initially posted this as its high time players like Gerrard and others took the brunt of the critisism.
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Postby puroresu » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:29 pm

players do need to take a responsibility but we all know that no matter what the club when results aint going well the buck lies with the manager.  Always has done, always will do.

The way we play is dictated by the manager.  I think the way team is told to play has to much emphasis on defending and winning the ball back.
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Postby AussieKopite » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:40 pm

I just want to point out the Wenger, Feguson and Mourinho all have not rotated nearly as much as Rafa and yet they have all won the Title. I'm just saying that it may be a mixture of rotation and Rafa not connecting with his players.
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Postby Avi Cohen » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:12 pm

I just think the team is set up all wrong. We sit far too deep and the strikers have no support or Jermaine Pennant.
Watching Chelsea and the scum play, every time they are on the attack there's 4/5 players bombing it into the box. When we attack, it's usually one of our strikers collecting the ball out on the wing with his partner in the box marked by 2/3. Gerrard is sitting too deep and since he's usually the guy who's pinged the 60 yard pass, he's far too behind to follow it up.
Rafa worries too much about the oppo for my liking. He sends out a team that he's convinced will win against whoever we're playing. Team A likes to soak it up, kill the game with possession and play on the counter, so if I have Momo in there biting at their ankles and not giving them time on the ball we should pin them back. He thinks too much. Just put out your best XI and change when players are A) tired B) injured or C) not on form. Simple as.
But does Rafa want a best XI? I don't know. It looks like he wants a free-flowing squad that floats in and out of the team - like cogs in a machine. And as we all know a machine has no craft or intelligence.
Johnny Giles was saying last night that management is putting the small mistakes that happen in ever game right. But as Rafa chops and changes, these mistakes are never addressed.
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