Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:43 pm

at the moment ? When did they last win anything ? Forget at the moment . Their attractive football hasnt won them anything for 4 seasons now and in that time we have won a cl an fa cup and finished above them twice in the prem so why go on about arsenal and being good to watch when its results that matter .

by **bigmick** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:54 pm

Once again this is an argument that's been done to death. They haven't won anything in the last four seasons no, but they have mounted a genuine and sustained challenge for the league title, and they were beaten in a Champions League final so they've hardly been in the doldrums. Equally, as we're talking about transfer spends it might be better if nobody puts up what Wenger hasn't spent over the same period that Rafa's been here. Off the top of my head it'll probably end up that he's laid out around forty five quid, he's a bit of a one off in that department.

It's also worth remembering that the season before "the last four seasons" they won the league whilst remaining unbeaten. The so-called "invincibles" were a fantastic football team, and it's worth not only remembering them when discussing Wenger but also considering that since then the Frenchman has rebuilt the whole team. Every single player who now plays for them was not a regular member of that side. Equally, in the closed season they lost both Flamini and Hleb, two players who were absolutely integral to their relative success last season.

I'll no doubt get accused of "crawling up Wengers erse", or told to "feck off and support Arsenal then" but I think if we are discussing things it makes sense to at least bring a bit of perspective to the arguments. One the question of "attractive football" there really isn't any argument nor comparison between the two sides. Equally however, I would be staggered if we didn't finish well in advance of Arsenal this season. Despite having their usual sprinkling of excellent players who were picked up for a song (Adebayor-3mill, Van Persie-3mill, Clichy and Fabregas-two bags of crisps and some orange bibs) they have a team which is lacking in any real backbone. I shouldm think that until Wenger bites the bullet and gets shot of William Gallas who looks like a disruptive influence to me these days, they will be languishing in the doldrums somewhat.

by **GYBS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:08 pm

they challenged once in 4 seasons and in the end we nearly over took them . Other seasons they have struggled to even get into 4th place . Once just scraping in on the last day of the season .yes wenger hasnt spent much but thats his own fault as money is there .just like not replacing the players who have left . Yes 4 years ago they won the league unbeaten . Since then reckon we have outperformed arsenal overall in both europe and prem .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:45 pm

at least they challenged for the title. we were busy challenging for 4th place. in europe we're in a different world but in the epl.....

31.03.07 Liverpool 4-1 Arsenal
09.01.07 Liverpool 3-6 Arsenal Carling Cup
06.01.07 Liverpool 1-3 Arsenal FA Cup
12.11.06 Arsenal 3-0 Liverpool
12.03.06 Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool
14.02.06 Liverpool 1-0 Arsenal
08.05.05 Arsenal 3-1 Liverpool
28.11.04 Liverpool 2-1 Arsenal
09.04.04 Arsenal 4-2 Liverpool
04.10.03 Liverpool 1-2 Arsenal

by **GYBS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:04 pm

twice in the last three seasons we have finished above them .

by **DanAn** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:31 pm

GYBS wrote:they challenged once in 4 seasons and in the end we nearly over took them . Other seasons they have struggled to even get into 4th place . Once just scraping in on the last day of the season .yes wenger hasnt spent much but thats his own fault as money is there .just like not replacing the players who have left . Yes 4 years ago they won the league unbeaten . Since then reckon we have outperformed arsenal overall in both europe and prem .

Back on topic I think my opinion has changed, its a waste of time buying a player under 5 M and we really should be looking at 10M+ players and only on good value players. I'd rather not get bent over buying Robbie Keane's (who I think will be a good player for us just not good value).

Until we can spend decent money I'd rather leave the team as is. So nothing in January unless were willing to fork out for a Rafihna, Zaki or Maxi Rodriguez quality player.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:10 pm

I can't see there being a great deal of transfer activity from the club in January unless (touch wood) we suffer a long-term injury to someone. The obvious needs are a full-back and (with Torres questionable hamstring) another striker. There has been a bit of speculation with regards to Dossena and i would not be upset (i don't think many would) if we sent him on loan back to Italy in the hope of moving him on permanently in the summer, without taking too much of a loss if that's possible. I know a good few posters would like to see the back of Pennant but i think he still may have a role to play this season. A lot of people really laid into him on here after the Portsmouth game but failed to notice he was our best player (or thereabouts) the week before against Wigan. A forward is a must because Ngog looks a million miles away from being ready for 1st team football. I still like Martins at Newcastle or perhaps a player like Viduka if he ever gets himself fit. Whoever it is i suspect it will need to be a clever piece of business, an older player or a loan signing who has been there and done it.

by **mart** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:43 pm

DanAn wrote:
GYBS wrote:He could have spent money on quality and we'd see guys like Alves, Aguero and Silva as a red rather than the 20 sub standard 3 million dollar players he seems to have purchased along the way.

Yea just like on Football Manager right?

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:05 pm

I seems there won’t be much money in the pot for Rafa to spend so he will have to wheel and deal if he wants to make changes. There are some players we could sell without having to bring in replacements but individually they would not generate much money:

Jermaine Pennant (contract expire in the summer I think)
Damien Plessis
Charles Itandje
Andriy Voronin
Adam Hammill
Jack Hobbs
Sebastian Leto
Paul Anderson
Godwin Antwi
Nikolay Mihaylov

The other option is to actually sell players part of the first team squad and use the money to buy direct replacements. For example if we were to do a deal with Hamburg to sell Kuyt for £10 million, we could then use that money to buy a better right sided midfielder.

The final option is to promote some of the better youngsters into the first team squad and sell off fringe players. For example, Sell Dossena or Aurelio and promote Insua, sell Lucas and promote Plessis, sell Ngog and Voronin and promote Nemeth, etc.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:10 pm

Personally I think Kuyt and Benayoun are the most sellable players who if we get a decent price for we should be looking to shift out. Both would generate some decent money and if we combined that with any funds raised from the sale of Pennant we could go out and find a good right sided midfielder.

by **tubby** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:16 pm

Kuyt has scored so many this season I cant see us selling him unless a replacement came in first.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:25 pm

I didn’t say sell Kuyt and don’t bring in a replacement, I said sell Kuyt plus others to fund a deal (already be in the pipeline) for a new right sided midfielder.

by **bigkarl** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:04 pm

bavlondon wrote:Cash in on Voronin? I wonder if we could even raise 1Million for him.

still more than we paid for him!

He is not good enough mate. simple as!

by **redhayesy** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:48 pm

if raffa has to sell before he can buy in january, it"s a no brainer for me there"s at least 7 players who can be sold!! my only worry is after the spurs game we might have to raffle them off instead

is loaning out players an option - not for me,either stick or twist what ever happens in the transfer window i only hope we don"t opt for free transfers ourselves, look at what happened when we signed deggan on a free!! enough said.

by **Koptite** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:01 am

well i would get rid of Dossena and Lucas straight away and Pennant dose'nt seem to get a look in.

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