Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:41 pm

RedEire wrote:I dont know the stats, but i would warrant if one was to go through the stats for Gerrard, Alonso, and compare them with Kuyt and Lucas and Benayoun and pick out completed pass and incomplete passes (meaning pass to opposition), the figure would be interesting. I do not expect goals galore, brilliant ball control, and amazing dummys from Kuyt/Lucas and Benayoun - but i would like them to do the basics which are give ball to LFC player, control a given pass and have the strenght to hold off the odd tackle. While stats showing how much ground you have covered during game sounds great, a lot of these might have to do with the chasing back you have to do after losing ball in the first place.
There has been too many LFC attacks broken down becuase of these three players (not always but more than most) yet Rafa continues to play them which brings me back again to my point that perhaps Rafa is content to lose possession in oppo half and for his team to hassle, harry and defend well to get ball back. While this is important, it surely must be tiring for players and it would be much easier to try beat teams with flair when they are there for the taking - which i feel Marseille were the other night

Good post.

It would be much more positive to try and keep the ball in the first place than go and win it back after losing it.

It would also save energy and help build momentum.

by **kunilson** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:18 pm

i very much doubt rafa wants our players to lose the ball and go back and get it.

How many times have you heard him praise us when we managed to "control the ball", and how angry he gets when we don't.
We used to try and be alot more patient in our build up and found it hard breaking down teams that way....which is why i think rafa wanted us to attack quicker with players like babel and torres, now keane and riera........and some players are finding it hard to adapt to this which is why we lose the ball more often than not these days as opposed to having the lion share of posession with nothing to show for it....

early days still, we're getting good results but if we hit the right form at the right time who knows how well this season could go.

Oh and as for lucas, he hasn't done much to stand out in my mind but he's one of those players i reckon will be able to adapt his game to whatever the manager asks, which is why rafa wants to stick with him.

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:01 pm

Had a shocker the other day but that doesn't mean he's become a bad player. Last season he was very good when he played and was man of the match against Inter in both games for me. I don't have the stats to hand but you'll probably find that the percentage of games we won was higher when he was in the side than when he wasn't.

The thing about Lucas is it's hard to put your finger on how much he is actually influencing games sometimes. He does move around the pitch intelligently though and is good at finding space to receive the ball. Generally he tries to be very one touch and simple with his passing.

At the moment he is generally 4th choice in the middle and happy to be so. That's fine by me. I just don't see why we originally needed to spend £5m on him when we've already got Jay Spearing.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:18 pm

Seems to be getting worse and worse with every game he plays for the club. He clearly has no idea how to tackle and can’t defend properly so if he doesn’t start influencing the game more going forward then his position at the club will be under threat.

Big season for both him and Babel.

by **kalos** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:45 pm

..said it before and will say it again.

NOT good enough and will never be good enough to play in the Premiership.

Will be sold within a year to a Spanish /Italian /Brazil side and look decent when no-one is near him , harassing him, during their games..

by **Red H** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:53 pm

Anyone seen him play for Brazil ? Traditionally they're a bit handy.

I can't see why people have such a problem with the lad, he's still developing. Lucas (and Plessis), had a great game against Arsenal (Flamini & Fabregas). Lot's of time and potential.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:41 pm

Red H wrote:Anyone seen him play for Brazil ? Traditionally they're a bit handy.

I can't see why people have such a problem with the lad, he's still developing. Lucas (and Plessis), had a great game against Arsenal (Flamini & Fabregas). Lot's of time and potential.

I can see why people have a problem with him. He seems to be going backwards and not showing the potential that made rafa pleased to sign him in the first place. He hasnt taken the opportunities presented to him. When he replaced Gerrard against Everton, it turned out to be an inspired move. Since then however, he hasnt done much.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:42 pm

stmichael wrote:Had a shocker the other day but that doesn't mean he's become a bad player. Last season he was very good when he played and was man of the match against Inter in both games for me. I don't have the stats to hand but you'll probably find that the percentage of games we won was higher when he was in the side than when he wasn't.

The thing about Lucas is it's hard to put your finger on how much he is actually influencing games sometimes. He does move around the pitch intelligently though and is good at finding space to receive the ball. Generally he tries to be very one touch and simple with his passing.

At the moment he is generally 4th choice in the middle and happy to be so. That's fine by me. I just don't see why we originally needed to spend £5m on him when we've already got Jay Spearing.

Or potentially it's hard to put your finger on it because he actually isn't influencing the game at all.

As I've said I cannot remember a match where afterwards I thought "Lucas had a great game today"....

by **peterc1992** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:46 am

Just looked at this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqKzNlxclw

Some of the goals and runs he goes on are class..Just makes ya think ..is it confidence he is lacking in the Liverpool team or the fatc tht he is playing alongside bigger and better players that are doing this already.

In the video he seems to be making easy stuff of the opposition midfielders but me thinks he looks a bit small in England.HE copuld prob boss at underage level but he seems to be a little light weight at this level or lacking confidence.Lookin at the video anyway keeps me excited about him and im still optimistic tht he can settle into the team.

by **Kukilon** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:54 am

I'm not liking what I see of him at the moment but he is still young and it can't be easy for someone that young from Brazil to come to England and start a new life. I'll give him another season to show us what he is made of.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:37 pm

Kukilon wrote:I'm not liking what I see of him at the moment but he is still young and it can't be easy for someone that young from Brazil to come to England and start a new life. I'll give him another season to show us what he is made of.

Probably made a damn site easier by having a club that will look after everything for you, and getting paid a big lump of cash every month...

by **Kukilon** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:07 pm

Jimmy the Weasel wrote:
Kukilon wrote:I'm not liking what I see of him at the moment but he is still young and it can't be easy for someone that young from Brazil to come to England and start a new life. I'll give him another season to show us what he is made of.

Probably made a damn site easier by having a club that will look after everything for you, and getting paid a big lump of cash every month...

Money is not everything in life. I can easily understand why someone from for example Spain and Brazil can have a hard time adapting to England since it's so different in culture.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:04 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Lucas is neat , he's tidy , erm ....... I'm hard pressed to say anything else apart from he's also very lightweight , gets brushed off the ball and decked by any opposing player that puts in a serious challenge and the majority of his own tackles seem to result in a free kick for the opposition. Offers little in terms of goal threat or creativity.

Well, five months on from starting this thread I've just watched a replay of the Marseille game and I have to say my opinion of Lucas has changed.

I was far too easy on the guy, as an LFC player he's f'ucking useless !

Completely out of his depth in a LFC shirt, he does and adds f'uck all to our midfield.

And we spent weeks moaning about Alonso ! do me a favour.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:19 pm

Kukilon wrote:
Jimmy the Weasel wrote:
Kukilon wrote:I'm not liking what I see of him at the moment but he is still young and it can't be easy for someone that young from Brazil to come to England and start a new life. I'll give him another season to show us what he is made of.

Probably made a damn site easier by having a club that will look after everything for you, and getting paid a big lump of cash every month...

Money is not everything in life. I can easily understand why someone from for example Spain and Brazil can have a hard time adapting to England since it's so different in culture.

It makes a lot of the difficulties of re-locating much easier though. And having the club looking after your day to day business will make it all a damn sight more simple, will it not?

So those excuses don't hold much water for me.

by **Fo Dne** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:27 am

Jimmy the Weasel wrote:
Kukilon wrote:
Jimmy the Weasel wrote:
Kukilon wrote:I'm not liking what I see of him at the moment but he is still young and it can't be easy for someone that young from Brazil to come to England and start a new life. I'll give him another season to show us what he is made of.

Probably made a damn site easier by having a club that will look after everything for you, and getting paid a big lump of cash every month...

Money is not everything in life. I can easily understand why someone from for example Spain and Brazil can have a hard time adapting to England since it's so different in culture.

It makes a lot of the difficulties of re-locating much easier though. And having the club looking after your day to day business will make it all a damn sight more simple, will it not?

So those excuses don't hold much water for me.

Thats all they are, excuses.

Lets face it, when you're on the pitch you aren't going to miss control a ball because you're missing spanish paeilla (spelling) and mid afternoon naps are you?

Its like me going on holiday to Spain, playin footy with Spannish lads and then not being able to do the same things I can do over here...

Its pathetic the excuses some people make for players being :censored:

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