Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:51 pm

Okay, so I haven't been able to catch any of our friendlies to date and I recognize that such matches are rife with chopping and changing. With that said, I wonder if there's been any pattern to the way we've lined up that might indicate the formation that Rafa has in mind once the season kicks off? Have we, for instance, seen more 4-4-2 since Keane's arrived? Have the new fullbacks changed the way we line up? Have we dabbled with the 4-2-3-1 at all this summer? Will the likely arrival of Barry change things?

Anyone want to run the rule over our pre-season thus far and give their thoughts on our likely formation for the coming season?

by **metalhead** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:58 pm

Even if Barry arrives I would stick to either 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 formation, with keane behind Torres instead of Gerrard.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:14 am

I saw the early friendlies, then half of the Hertha Berlin game, half of the Villarreal game, half of the Rangers game, and half of the Vålerenga game.

From what I've seen - mainly 4-4-2, recently with Keane playing up top alongside Torres, Gerrard central, Kuyt on right. Dossena looks like he'll start the season as our LB, and Arbeloa as right. Don't know about the central pairing at the back, but I'd say Agger will be the one to start against Sunderland. I think the friendly today gave the greatest indication yet of what the team will look like come the start of the Premiership. No real indication of 4-2-3-1, but that may be because Torres/Alonso /Kuyt/Babel came back later than the rest, and Gerrard was injured for the WK/HB games. I suspect we're aiming to set up in a 4-4-2 based on recent line ups.

Though going into the Sunderland game I'd be surprised if there weren't 3 or 4 changes from the UCL qualifier, perhaps even a formation change.

by **burjennio** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:18 am

LFC2007 Posted on Aug. 06 2008,00:14I saw the early friendlies, then half of the Hertha Berlin game, half of the Villarreal game, half of the Rangers game, and half of the Vålerenga game.

LFC2007: THE 1 HALF WONDER

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:31 am

today was 4-2-3-1 for the first 70 minuts. THen there were too many kids on and the game was kind of wide open and it was hard to tell, but it was VERY loose. At one point Kuyt and Torres switched roles. But when Stevie G was out there this is what we ran today:
Gerrard Alonso
Kuyt Yossi Keane
Torres

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:04 am

JoeTerp wrote:today was 4-2-3-1 for the first 70 minuts. THen there were too many kids on and the game was kind of wide open and it was hard to tell, but it was VERY loose. At one point Kuyt and Torres switched roles. But when Stevie G was out there this is what we ran today:
Gerrard Alonso
Kuyt Yossi Keane
Torres

You saw the game and the formation very different than I did Joe.

I saw it as :-

Gerrard Alonso

Kuyt Benayoun
Torres Keane

I thought Keane played through the middle, while Benayoun did what he usually does and drifts, especially when he plays on the left.

by **aCe'** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:13 am

s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:today was 4-2-3-1 for the first 70 minuts. THen there were too many kids on and the game was kind of wide open and it was hard to tell, but it was VERY loose. At one point Kuyt and Torres switched roles. But when Stevie G was out there this is what we ran today:
Gerrard Alonso
Kuyt Yossi Keane
Torres

You saw the game and the formation very different than I did Joe.

I saw it as :-

Gerrard Alonso

Kuyt Benayoun
Torres Keane

I thought Keane played through the middle, while Benayoun did what he usually does and drifts, especially when he plays on the left.

yea thats what i thought as well.
Would be interesting to see if we stick to this formation though given the players we have atm. Im guessing Babel would come in for Benayoun (thought he was MOM in the game today) with Mascherano also coming in for Alonso.
Said it before but i really think signing Keane might have ruined our chances of sticking to the 4-2-3-1 we were playing last season as he would obviously be better used in a central forward position rather than sides. Would even be more interesting if we end up signing Barry .. where would he figure then ? left midfield ?
im guessing with keane and torres in the side now we have no other sensible option besides playing 2 upfront because anything else would be a waste of keane's abilities imo.

In all honesty im a bit dissapointed we didnt sign a winger as yet and hope we do before the transfer deadline but just cant see it happening. Having said that, most big clubs (take the top 4 for example) seem to be relying less and less on out and out wingers nowadays. Chelsea, ManUtd, and Arsenal all have players capable of playing as out and out wingers yet in most cases the players are either given different roles (giggs, ronaldo, j.cole, hleb...) or are simply dropped from the side (malouda, nani, s.w.p...).. it does seem to be the way rafa would like things done at liverpool with our options down the flanks realistically being limited to Gerrard, Kuyt, Benayoun, Babel, maybe Barry and maybe pennant as the only natural winger if he stays.

As for next season.. imo the best formation we can use is the 4-4-2 with

Gerrard - Xabi - Masch - Barry? (Babel)

Keane
Torres

Barry could be used in different positions dependin on opposition imo and if keane or torres are injured we can always revert back to the 4-2-3-1...

Our main problem this season however seems to be our back 4... I have always thought that fullbacks are of least imortance to any team and our fullbacks seem pretty average atm. Arbeloa is solid defensively. Dossena seems pretty decent going forward. Aurelio and degen or finnan as backup. Imo, in the center is were we seem to struggle. Beyond Carragher when hes at his best i think we might struggle to contain any good forwards out there. Agger is a very good player when on the ball but overall i think we should have a better central pairing than agger-carragher... certainly an agger-skrtel pairing wouldnt work imo with both lacking in the positioning department imo.. id take hyypia - agger(skrtel) if carragher was injured or unavailable.

all in all... i think our most likely starting lineup would look something like this

Reina

Arbeloa Carra Agger Dossena

Kuyt(babel) Gerrard Masch Barry(benayoun)

Keane
Torres

by **Number 9** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:27 am

I have'nt seen enough of pre season to say really.
But we have many possibilties and Rafa loves that!
My worry is that Rafa will not be able to resist the urge(especially if we sign Barry) to experiment in the early part of the season with different formations and our consistancy may suffer as a result.
I would hope that given its success last season he would mainly stick with the 4-2-3-1.Im sure we will see a 4-4-2 at times as well as long as he does not swap the formation around TOO MUCH we should be OK!

The thing is though,if Alonso stays,with the addition of Keane,Dossena and if Barry comes we will always have more "first team" players than we can field if they are to be played in their natural positions.It begs the question of what is the strongest team
we can field?If we are to field our best 11 does that mean Carra at RB,Gerrard on the right of a 3 man MF and Barry on the left?
(Not necesseraly our BEST team but its IMO our 11 best players)

Reina
Carra Skrtel Agger Dossena

Mascherano Alonso

Gerrard Keane Barry

Torres

That looks like an excellent team on paper,but some would argue Carra at RB is a waste of his born to be a CB ability,while others would argue that both either Skrtel and Agger are too good to spend most of the season on the bench and if Rafa swaps them around to keep them both happy the defence may lack consistancy and understanding as a result.
Some may argue that Gerrard should play in the centre,personally i dont agree i think he can play and be world class wherever needed.Also when the whistle goes he is all over the park,its not as if he is stuck on the right the whole game.Again a lot have said Barry needs to play in CM but at who's expense?

The truth is the more quality you add to the squad the harder it is to play all your best players when there are lots of options available.
I just hope Rafa does not juggle things too much because it has been proven that it just does'nt work.
No one knows what he will do....tbh id say he still wont know what 11 players will kick off against Sunderland in the first game!

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:40 am

From what I've see its been 4-4-2.

like others have said Alonso/Gerrard in the middle Kuyt right and Benayoun left. I've seen about 70 mins of Torres and Keane play upfront together and they did look good together on first impressions against Rangers. Then its been the usual stuff, throw all the kids on and mix things up a bit.

So as of yet it seems Rafa has moved away from the formation that served us pretty well last season (4-2-3-1). Which is a shame because I quite liked it, but with the signing of Keane it looks as though at this stage he will play alongside Torres which isnt bad.

As we've seen in the past the Gerrard/Alonso partnership hasnt really worked well enough although in theory they look compatable. Gerrard has been given the stick by some in their quarters for not being disciplined enough. While others like myself have cast doubt in Alonso when the two are paired up. But like Voronin who looks good in the pre-season games, Alonso is doing the same, difference is we all know the Spainard can carry that into the league, unlike the Ukranian. I hope Alonso isnt going to flatter to decieve and we'll need someone when Mascha f.ucks off to the olympics.

Kuyt has looked the most likely to start out on the right IMO, and although he isnt my prefered choice of player there. He's probably the best we've got (I dont know whether thats saying much

) but the bloke always gives 110%

On the left its a toss-up between Yossi and Babel as we still havent found that quality LM ? I'm just hoping we now land Barry, it seems pretty clear that Rafa isnt going to go for anyone else. And although I'd lik to see the Brummie start the bulk of the games in the middle he'd be a much better option on the left than Babel or Yossi.

Hopefully Arbeloa and Finnan both stay, Degen looks atrocious (sp) from what I've seen of him, so again no real improvement in that area of the pitch.

For me I'd play Agger and Carra at the back, but who knows with Rafa, while at LB the jury is still out on Dossena. He does bomb forward pretty well, but unusually for an Italian he has looked suspect when defending. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say thats down to him bedding in, and I hope it is. Because I dont rate Aurelio as much of a defender neither, infact I'd prefer Riise

So in all the formation looks 4-4-2, but with a host of players. Apart from Keane, on paper I dont think we've improved our first eleven and if anything we could look a little weaker.

by **Salty Sock** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:43 am

I think the 4-2-3-1 has greatest potential! I will be surprising if people frankly disagree, but stick with it and we will see the results.
Some good input.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:44 am

Also when the whistle goes he is all over the park,its not as if he is stuck on the right the whole game.

And thats the problem for me, especially in a flat four midfield. The team lose shape aswell as width and the RB loses an outlet. especially when (like against Chelsea) Gerrard cannot get into the game, he goes walkabout. I'd rather he did that (walkabout) in central midfield so that either Xabi or Mascha can cover his @rse.

If however he started on the right like in Barrys formation (4-2-3-1) it wouldnt be so bad. As its more of an attacking position the three AM's can interchange their positions. And if Gerrard comes inside , Keane, Babel or even Torres could pull out wide. By having the two CM's we have enough cover for the RB back if Gerrard does decide to go walkies.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:49 pm

every time THEY were building from the back, Keane was was left, especially in the beginning.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:36 pm

JoeTerp wrote:every time THEY were building from the back, Keane was was left, especially in the beginning.

It looks like Tony Barrett agrees with you, Joe.

"There is still no genuine width and the idea of having Robbie Keane stationed on the left wing is one which will take some getting used to, but, in the absence of players who get chalk on their boots, Liverpool are still managing to use the central areas of the pitch to good effect."

ECHO match report

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:every time THEY were building from the back, Keane was was left, especially in the beginning.

It looks like Tony Barrett agrees with you, Joe.

"There is still no genuine width and the idea of having Robbie Keane stationed on the left wing is one which will take some getting used to, but, in the absence of players who get chalk on their boots, Liverpool are still managing to use the central areas of the pitch to good effect."

ECHO match report

Not so sure about that Bob, he then goes on to say - "Yossi Benayoun is certainly enjoying working with an overlapping full back as his second half strike illustrated as he moved inside from his station wide left and produced a jinking run and finish which brought the Ullevaal Stadium to its feet.

For me Keane ran the channels on a few occasions but was more often running through the middle. (I thought he was making too many similar runs to Torres and they at times were almost stepping on each others toes)

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:54 pm

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:every time THEY were building from the back, Keane was was left, especially in the beginning.

It looks like Tony Barrett agrees with you, Joe.

"There is still no genuine width and the idea of having Robbie Keane stationed on the left wing is one which will take some getting used to, but, in the absence of players who get chalk on their boots, Liverpool are still managing to use the central areas of the pitch to good effect."

ECHO match report

Not so sure about that Bob, he then goes on to say - "Yossi Benayoun is certainly enjoying working with an overlapping full back as his second half strike illustrated as he moved inside from his station wide left and produced a jinking run and finish which brought the Ullevaal Stadium to its feet.

For me Keane ran the channels on a few occasions but was more often running through the middle. (I thought he was making too many similar runs to Torres and they at times were almost stepping on each others toes)

Ahh, so he does, mate.

Is this shuffling about something that we can chalk up to pre-season experimenting, I wonder, or is the plan to have the likes of Keane, Benayoun, Kuyt, Gerrard, Babel, etc. interchanging in the attacking third?

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