Liverpool FC Forum

by **Thingy** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:48 am

Someone did mention somethin about sellin Bruna Rock mate. Seen it with me own f.uckin eyes okay?

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 07, 2008 9:46 am

The_Rock wrote:As for degen....he is $h1t and you can quote me on that... I rather we kept finnan and arbeloa as they are much much better than degen. I have not seen degen play (how can i when he doesn't even make the 1st eleven for his Borussia Dortmund team ?

You were telling us in another thread how you'd seen him play on the tele, now you haven't seen him play?

:upside:

by **Number 9** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:06 am

LFC2007 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:As for degen....he is $h1t and you can quote me on that... I rather we kept finnan and arbeloa as they are much much better than degen. I have not seen degen play (how can i when he doesn't even make the 1st eleven for his Borussia Dortmund team ?

You were telling us in another thread how you'd seen him play on the tele, now you haven't seen him play?

Thats not the worst part!

How can the rock say hes sh.it and you can quote me on that and in the same breath say he has'nt seen him play? :laugh:

Maybe your better waiting until you see him in a few games before you go to the extreem of saying hes sh.it eh Rock?It kinda makes sense!

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:10 am

Number 9 wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:As for degen....he is $h1t and you can quote me on that... I rather we kept finnan and arbeloa as they are much much better than degen. I have not seen degen play (how can i when he doesn't even make the 1st eleven for his Borussia Dortmund team ?

You were telling us in another thread how you'd seen him play on the tele, now you haven't seen him play?

Thats not the worst part!

How can the rock say hes sh.it and you can quote me on that and in the same breath say he has'nt seen him play?

Maybe your better waiting until you see him in a few games before you go to the extreem of saying hes sh.it eh Rock?It kinda makes sense!

There's that too.

by **bigmick** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:19 am

To be honest it's an internet forum not the Kop, and to my mind people are entitled to voice an opinion even if it's b0ll0cks. It's not like you're stood five feet from the touchline destroying the lads confidence, some of us are stood quite a bit further away than that. All this "give him time" stuff is all very well but as I've said many times, the people who write that stuff are really saying "give ME time, because I don't want to risk calling it wrong and looking like an idiot".

I've always been one for giving an opinion early in the piece and if I'm wrong (which on current form I usually am to be honest) then feck it, who suffers at the end of the day? I loved Garcia as a player, and thought the World of Sissoko as well. Maybe Momo won't become the best midfield player int eh World, and maybe Garcia wasn't rafa's "best value signing", and maybe in Kuyt we haven't found ourselves a player "who will become a legend" (well not in the way that I meant it at the time anyway

but so what? It's a forum, and in reality nobody outside of the fifty or so people who regualrly post on here gives a feck what anybody on here thinks. To be totally honest, there's probably a good number of those fifty that I don't give a feck what they think myself, even though I read their posts :laugh:

Give Insua a chance, slag him off on here, say he's the new Roberto Carlos or the new Riise, it makes no difference to anybody at all. FWIW I am predicting deggen will be sh!t, even though I've never seen the bloke play and have never heard of him. I am simply deducing from the fact that he is available on a free from Borussia Dortmund or wherever it is and nobody else is in for him, and the fans of that club reckon he's sh!t, that he probably is. He might not be of course, he might be like that other bloke who came out of the Bunsdeslega on a free and turned out to be pretty good in the end (I'm talking about Ballack of course not the other one

).

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:29 am

bigmick wrote:Give Insua a chance, slag him off on here, say he's the new Roberto Carlos or the new Riise, it makes no difference to anybody at all. FWIW I am predicting deggen will be sh!t, even though I've never seen the bloke play and have never heard of him. I am simply deducing from the fact that he is available on a free from Borussia Dortmund or wherever it is and nobody else is in for him, and the fans of that club reckon he's sh!t, that he probably is. He might not be of course, he might be like that other bloke who came out of the Bunsdeslega on a free and turned out to be pretty good in the end (I'm talking about Ballack of course not the other one ).

I agree for the reasons stated, the chances of Degen being up to standard would seem slim, very slim. In saying that, it's impossible to claim he's sh!t having never seen him play, and there are examples - albeit few - of free transfers being good value, e.g. Babbel.

by **bigmick** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:45 am

There's been lots of free transfers that have been good players LFC, Babbel is one of many. Macmanaman was a free once, Roy Keanne another. Babbel was hardly a surprise to anyone though that he was a good player, he had been in the German National team for ages and had starred at club level. It's not that Deggan is free that leads me to believe he is going to be rubbish, it's all the other stuff.

I read today that Newcastle are not going to offer copntracts to Ramage (very average defender), some kid who's never played and Steven Carr. Carr is 31 and was a good player in his time, he'll do a job for somebody somewhere. Not in any way shape or form though is he good enough for Liverpool and this lad Deggen won't be either. He's twenty five years old and hasn't been a regualr at any club he's been at, either he is about to improve out of all recognition or he won't be upto it. Hopefully it's the former, but signing him isn't like picking up a kid of eighteen or nineteen who just might be something. We're picking up a lad who's never really done it throughout his career.

I know you're not disagreeing with me really and are merely balancing up the argument a bit, but it would take an extreme optimist to think we are getting a player who is going to be anything other than a "use in extreme emergencies" option, unless as I say he can show form which is on a different stratosphere to anything he has achieved in his career so far.

EDIT- I's Babbel not Babel, sorry bout that.

by **Sabre** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:52 am

Despite the universal concept of everybody is entitled to have an opinion is nice, I don't think GBJH is wrong about asking some patience on early impressions. Too much impatience these days sometimes.

I don't agree other points GBJH makes later in the post, but I do agree the "main idea".

by **Redman in wales** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:04 am

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Give Insua a chance, slag him off on here, say he's the new Roberto Carlos or the new Riise, it makes no difference to anybody at all. FWIW I am predicting deggen will be sh!t, even though I've never seen the bloke play and have never heard of him. I am simply deducing from the fact that he is available on a free from Borussia Dortmund or wherever it is and nobody else is in for him, and the fans of that club reckon he's sh!t, that he probably is. He might not be of course, he might be like that other bloke who came out of the Bunsdeslega on a free and turned out to be pretty good in the end (I'm talking about Ballack of course not the other one ).

I agree for the reasons stated, the chances of Degen being up to standard would seem slim, very slim. In saying that, it's impossible to claim he's sh!t having never seen him play, and there are examples - albeit few - of free transfers being good value, e.g. Babbel.

I agree with this as well. I haven’t seen him play either.. but many people who have say he’s sh1t. Borussia’s own fans don’t want him. And I tend to think he is a bit like Traore – not in playing style, but just in a not-up-to-scratch defender who the home fans don’t exactly like. Does a job, but definitely not a world beater!

McManaman, keane and Babbel mentioned above were all playing week-in, week-out for their clubs, and their countries, were liked by fans and perhaps moved for other reasons. – This is not the case with Degan

I really think we should aim higher

by **JC_81** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:44 am

The gist of this post is ok - ie give players time before judging them and all that, but in all seriousness, who has been slaughtering Insua?? I haven't seen any evidence of that on here, most people have been praising him.

Bit of a rant about nothing GBJH.

by **Thinkpad** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:34 pm

In my opinion Insua does look okay. Can even be good... very good.
This is the type that with proper guidance will be a good player. Not necessarily great but good definitely.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:46 pm

no it's not a rant about nothing, because it's about time in general not just Insua which people have gone about to believe.

one of the biggest problems is people are already saying degen isn't good enough. fair enough he hasn't been a regular at his club level, but what chance has he got when people are already looking at him as a bad player. people will straight away be seeing his bad points and bad games with this attitude. we need to be much more open minded towards our players. this also relates to the current players from next year onwards, it's a new season so everybody has a clean slate. The likes of Kuyt, Crouch (if here) Lucas, Pennant (if here) and so on have got the chance to prove themselves again and people shouldn't be whinging about their form of this season come next year. Also the likes of Carra, Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano have to prove their class again and people can't think these players are above criticism becaue of what they've did this year.

people are far to quick to jump on the backs of our players.

by **JC_81** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:53 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:no it's not a rant about nothing, because it's about time in general not just Insua which people have gone about to believe.

one of the biggest problems is people are already saying degen isn't good enough. fair enough he hasn't been a regular at his club level, but what chance has he got when people are already looking at him as a bad player. people will straight away be seeing his bad points and bad games with this attitude. we need to be much more open minded towards our players. this also relates to the current players from next year onwards, it's a new season so everybody has a clean slate. The likes of Kuyt, Crouch (if here) Lucas, Pennant (if here) and so on have got the chance to prove themselves again and people shouldn't be whinging about their form of this season come next year. Also the likes of Carra, Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano have to prove their class again and people can't think these players are above criticism becaue of what they've did this year.

people are far to quick to jump on the backs of our players.

All players have a clean slate next season? Don't kid yourself mate. A summer holiday doesn't transform players into world beaters.

Players like Pennant and Kuyt have been here a couple of seasons now, if they were going to be top drawer players for us then we'd have seen a bit more evidence by now. Same goes for Crouch.

Guys like Lucas and Babel are young, have come from abroad and had one season. They're a different story. It's these guys that might possibly be able to step it up next season and come into their own. There have been glimpses from both that they might have a bit more quality than they have shown consistently so far - Babel more than Lucas.

And for the record if Degen turns out to be anything more than sh.ite then I'll hold my hands up. Until then I'll continue to show my discontent at us signing a sub-standard player just because he's on a free.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:10 pm

degen has been accused of having poor attitude too. and dortmund fans are glad to get rid of him.
makes you wonder doesnt it?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:04 pm

john craig wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:no it's not a rant about nothing, because it's about time in general not just Insua which people have gone about to believe.

one of the biggest problems is people are already saying degen isn't good enough. fair enough he hasn't been a regular at his club level, but what chance has he got when people are already looking at him as a bad player. people will straight away be seeing his bad points and bad games with this attitude. we need to be much more open minded towards our players. this also relates to the current players from next year onwards, it's a new season so everybody has a clean slate. The likes of Kuyt, Crouch (if here) Lucas, Pennant (if here) and so on have got the chance to prove themselves again and people shouldn't be whinging about their form of this season come next year. Also the likes of Carra, Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano have to prove their class again and people can't think these players are above criticism becaue of what they've did this year.

people are far to quick to jump on the backs of our players.

All players have a clean slate next season? Don't kid yourself mate. A summer holiday doesn't transform players into world beaters.

Players like Pennant and Kuyt have been here a couple of seasons now, if they were going to be top drawer players for us then we'd have seen a bit more evidence by now. Same goes for Crouch.

Guys like Lucas and Babel are young, have come from abroad and had one season. They're a different story. It's these guys that might possibly be able to step it up next season and come into their own. There have been glimpses from both that they might have a bit more quality than they have shown consistently so far - Babel more than Lucas.

And for the record if Degen turns out to be anything more than sh.ite then I'll hold my hands up. Until then I'll continue to show my discontent at us signing a sub-standard player just because he's on a free.

did i say a summer holiday will turn these players into world beaters? no i don't think i did.

ok let me ask you this if all players don't start on a clean slate what will torres' 30 plus goals this season mean next season? fuck all that's what. kuyt's 3 league goals this year count for nothing next season. both Torres and Kuyt start equal next season.

Liverpool of old were based around the fact of not looking backwards. So next year Dirk Kuyt is on a clean slate and has another chance to prove himself. Just like Torres is on a clean slate and has to prove himself again. Or are you one of these fans who'll happily sit there and go "it's alright Torres hasn't scored 5 goals this year because he got 30 last year and I really don't care that Kuyt has scored 30 goals this season because he didn't even make 15 last year, he's a one season wonder" Is that you? if it is then you really need to sort it out, and so does anybody who has the same mentality.

Next year every player in the squad has to prove that they are good enough for a place in the starting eleven. This season, last season and every other past season counts for nothing once the new season starts. It's a new season, new players, new challenges and therefore everybody starts with a clean slate.

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