Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:54 pm

Pairings is one way of looking at it, and you could also look at it from an individual point of view. Carragher is the best defender in the squad, by a mile. Apart from his defensive ability, even if he were sh!t he would be worth his place in the team purely for what he brings in terms of presence. In my view there is possibly an argument about who should partner him (although if fit I think Agger is a distance ahead of Skyrtel as well) but Carragher is as far ahead of our other defenders as Torres is of Crouch (I didn't include Kuyt and Voronin because that distorts the whole point a bit).

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:58 pm

Carra and Agger, ideally.

by **neil** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:42 pm

bigmick wrote:Pairings is one way of looking at it, and you could also look at it from an individual point of view. Carragher is the best defender in the squad, by a mile. Apart from his defensive ability, even if he were sh!t he would be worth his place in the team purely for what he brings in terms of presence. In my view there is possibly an argument about who should partner him (although if fit I think Agger is a distance ahead of Skyrtel as well) but Carragher is as far ahead of our other defenders as Torres is of Crouch (I didn't include Kuyt and Voronin because that distorts the whole point a bit).

wrong, he is not not the best defender in the squad nevermind by a mile, how many set piece goals have we conceded due to a direct 'hoof' into the stands by a hardly under pressure carragher, at least 5. Last minute penalty at west ham ended the title race in dec(when alonso had the ball btw). Tried his best to scupper the goodison derby win. Didnt he hoof a ball needlessly into the crowd prior to the set piece man u winner at anfield? Like I said emperors new clothes.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:43 pm

bigmick wrote:Pairings is one way of looking at it, and you could also look at it from an individual point of view. Carragher is the best defender in the squad, by a mile. Apart from his defensive ability, even if he were sh!t he would be worth his place in the team purely for what he brings in terms of presence. In my view there is possibly an argument about who should partner him (although if fit I think Agger is a distance ahead of Skyrtel as well) but Carragher is as far ahead of our other defenders as Torres is of Crouch (I didn't include Kuyt and Voronin because that distorts the whole point a bit).

he's also totally different to our other defenders though Mick. He's a defender who loves defending. Throwing his body on the line, last ditch tackles and the rest of it. Agger/Skrtel/Sami are more the ball playing defender. So as a defending defender Carra is streets ahead, but as a ball playing centre half he's cities (never mind streets) behind the rest. So it's really what type of defender you're looking for. Which is why I think Carra has been the one man who is always there, because we're blessed with two/three ball playing centre halves but only one proper defending defender.

Same with up top. In terms of working hard Kuyt is streets ahead. In terms of being a lanky fella who can score the most difficult of goals yet miss realtively easy chances, Crouch is streets ahead. In terms of being a world class forward who can score from anywhere Torres is streets ahead. In terms of being late 20s but looking more like early 60s and being totally out of your depth at Liverpool Voronin is streets ahead.

It really depends what type of player you're going for. Like I said, since we only have the one defender who will throw everything at the ball without thinking, it really is "who partners Carragher"

by **Number 9** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:22 am

neil wrote:do you want a dossier of mistakes? from conference esq clearances leading to set piece goals against to last minute bizzarre challenges resulting in penalties against, its was there for all to see. The emporers new clothes springs to mind dude.

How about a dossier of the times Carra has kept us in games by defending our goal as if his life depended on it over the years and this season as well!

Totally amazed by some people,after what Carra has given to this club time after time.Then because he has been slightly below his usual excellent self,due to lack of a regular partner at the back, people like you are giving off about him.
Unbelievable,and of course you are wrong as Carra will im sure be the first name on Rafas team sheet every game this coming season if fit and so he should be!

The man is a legend,and should be given more respect!

by **neil** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:49 am

Number 9 wrote:
neil wrote:do you want a dossier of mistakes? from conference esq clearances leading to set piece goals against to last minute bizzarre challenges resulting in penalties against, its was there for all to see. The emporers new clothes springs to mind dude.

How about a dossier of the times Carra has kept us in games by defending our goal as if his life depended on it over the years and this season as well!

Totally amazed by some people,after what Carra has given to this club time after time.Then because he has been slightly below his usual excellent self,due to lack of a regular partner at the back, people like you are giving off about him.
Unbelievable,and of course you are wrong as Carra will im sure be the first name on Rafas team sheet every game this coming season if fit and so he should be!

The man is a legend,and should be given more respect!

I suppose you still want Dalglish upfront just behind torres

by **Big Niall** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

My question about Carra is that he is just so uncomfortable on the ball, if you put him under pressure he'll just kick the ball away. I think Manure/Chelsea/Arsenal centre backs all feel more comfortable on the ball and keeping posession.

Carra is probably the top bloke in the team (fully committed and dead sound) but it his "with ball" abilities that I am doubtful.

I admit he has never been Bobby Moore but if we are to push to win the league then this is what we need.

by **Owzat** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:11 pm

Big Niall wrote:My question about Carra is that he is just so uncomfortable on the ball, if you put him under pressure he'll just kick the ball away. I think Manure/Chelsea/Arsenal centre backs all feel more comfortable on the ball and keeping posession.

Swings and roundabouts. A 'non nonsense defender' will hoof it into the stands and occaisionally you'll see a goal result from a poor clearance. However a 'comfortable on the ball defender' will get caught in possession or playing a square ball and concede that way. I'd rather Carra hoofed it when under pressure than try to be too clever, if he's hoofing it under no pressure then fair enough criticise that approach.

by **Number 9** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:14 pm

neil wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
neil wrote:do you want a dossier of mistakes? from conference esq clearances leading to set piece goals against to last minute bizzarre challenges resulting in penalties against, its was there for all to see. The emporers new clothes springs to mind dude.

How about a dossier of the times Carra has kept us in games by defending our goal as if his life depended on it over the years and this season as well!

Totally amazed by some people,after what Carra has given to this club time after time.Then because he has been slightly below his usual excellent self,due to lack of a regular partner at the back, people like you are giving off about him.
Unbelievable,and of course you are wrong as Carra will im sure be the first name on Rafas team sheet every game this coming season if fit and so he should be!

The man is a legend,and should be given more respect!

I suppose you still want Dalglish upfront just behind torres

If only that was possible!

by **stmichael** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:35 pm

Carragher and Agger for me.

Cannot wait for Agger to get back though. We have missed him really badly in that when he plays it allows us to defend higher up the pitch. Also, Hyypia and Carra in possession are just dire at times.

by **Big Niall** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:44 pm

Owzat wrote:
Big Niall wrote:My question about Carra is that he is just so uncomfortable on the ball, if you put him under pressure he'll just kick the ball away. I think Manure/Chelsea/Arsenal centre backs all feel more comfortable on the ball and keeping posession.

Swings and roundabouts. A 'non nonsense defender' will hoof it into the stands and occaisionally you'll see a goal result from a poor clearance. However a 'comfortable on the ball defender' will get caught in possession or playing a square ball and concede that way. I'd rather Carra hoofed it when under pressure than try to be too clever, if he's hoofing it under no pressure then fair enough criticise that approach.

cheers for the reasonable disagreement.

I expected to be hammered for it as we all think so much of JC.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:50 pm

Big Niall wrote:My question about Carra is that he is just so uncomfortable on the ball, if you put him under pressure he'll just kick the ball away. I think Manure/Chelsea/Arsenal centre backs all feel more comfortable on the ball and keeping posession.

Carra is probably the top bloke in the team (fully committed and dead sound) but it his "with ball" abilities that I am doubtful.

I admit he has never been Bobby Moore but if we are to push to win the league then this is what we need.

you need a bit of both though mate. carra is first on the team sheet because he is the only no nonesense defender we have, two players being so similar doesn't really work. It's like having two Fernando Torres' up front, for me it wouldn't work because they'll be making the same decisions and getting in each other's way. It's all about balance.

Carra was moved into the heart of the defence once Stephan Henchoz (no nonesense defender) was no longer a regular. So I think it really is who partners Carra because we are blessed with a few ball players but only one no nonesense defender.

by **Big Niall** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:19 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Big Niall wrote:My question about Carra is that he is just so uncomfortable on the ball, if you put him under pressure he'll just kick the ball away. I think Manure/Chelsea/Arsenal centre backs all feel more comfortable on the ball and keeping posession.

Carra is probably the top bloke in the team (fully committed and dead sound) but it his "with ball" abilities that I am doubtful.

I admit he has never been Bobby Moore but if we are to push to win the league then this is what we need.

you need a bit of both though mate. carra is first on the team sheet because he is the only no nonesense defender we have, two players being so similar doesn't really work. It's like having two Fernando Torres' up front, for me it wouldn't work because they'll be making the same decisions and getting in each other's way. It's all about balance.

Carra was moved into the heart of the defence once Stephan Henchoz (no nonesense defender) was no longer a regular. So I think it really is who partners Carra because we are blessed with a few ball players but only one no nonesense defender.

Which one of Hanson & Lawrenson was the "no nonesense one"?

by **Toffeehater** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:22 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Can't believe that after ONE season where he's not been at his absolutely f'ucking supreme some are already relegating him to the bench .

Yeah , he's made some ricks and he's not getting any younger , he's also been the one constant in our back four. He's had to marshal and lead an ever changing defence and Sammi aside, those revolving faces include players who are relative newbies when compared to the likes of himself and Hyypia.

Carra may well have peaked but he far from his sell by date. Skrtel's still to raw and Agger still has to show that his injury is well and truly sorted.

Carra and a fit Agger my first choice pairing, followed by Carra/Skrtel and Carra/Hyypia.

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:28 pm

I think we can accomodate Carra, Skrtel (marking) and Agger (sweeping) in a 3-5-2 formation next season.

Reina

Carra
Agger
Skrtel

New RM
Barry
Mascha/Alonso
Gerrard
New LM

Torres
Babel

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