Liverpool FC Forum

NANNY RED wrote:

heimdall wrote:The thing which is becoming very apparent here is that the people who like Rafa judge him purely on his European successes and don't really care about the league whilst those who don't rate him as a manager rate him more on his performance in the league. I guess you al my now no which side of the fence I'm on, in fact I haven't even seen that fence in quite a while, it's way off in the distance  

I'll be the first to congratulate Rafa for our often miraculous success in Europe, we constantly play like underdogs but somehow we win, which is nice. My problem with the genius tag is that he is spectacularly unable to transfer this kind of performance into the premiership and that is why I still want rid of him, even after having beaten the mighty Sunderland at home 

Why do you seem to hate our manager so much ive never heard you say one good word about him.

Ok fans are split some think Raffas time is up and others believe he should stay, but even the ones who think Raffa hsa gone past his sell by date but there venom is not like yours against the man.

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Well correct me if I'm wrong pal but weren't we 3-0 down to Milan under Benitez? Weren't we 4 minutes from going out in the European Cup in 05 against Olympiakos because we needed to score THREE goals? Again we had to win our remaining THREE games this season but yet this is the european genius eh?

Come on gbjh you're just making a fool of yourself.  That AC MILAN side was one of the best football teams in the last 15 or 20 years, it's ridiculous to compare them with the likes of PSG.  We had absolutely no right to win that game, the class of the squads was miles apart.  No other manager in the world would have won that game with our squad. 

There are very few managers in the world who are on the same level of genius as Rafael Benitez.     

DAV wrote:the words Legend and great keep getting used.
Now think about in football with managers who are legends.
Shanks,paisley,fagan (even though he was cut short because of things that happend off the field)Dalglish for is double.Sad to say it ferguson and wenger.Clough,revie. Maybe even mourinho. i have missed many more.
So is RB?
I personally dont think so, as all the managers above have won their domestic competion. Does winning the league make you a legend. Well it would seem so. I'm sure Leeds and blackburn would class their league winning managers as legends.
As winning a cup can be done by luck, and somewhere down the line often is. A league campaign in my opinion shows what a manager is made of.
I just wondered what people thoughts were.
Maybe my assessment is wrong and i will learn something.

Dav I'm not a fan of Benitez as it's well documented, but you don't win any cup solely on luck. 15 games it took us to win the European Cup in 05. You don't get 15 games worth of luck, so we had to something right. Fair enough we had some luck, but there is more to it than just that.

Still, Benitez is no genius or legend in my eyes.

As for Leeds and Blackburn, it'd be Howard Wilkinson and Kenny Dalglish as legends, we all know Kenny is, I don't even think Leeds could feel old Howard is a legend 

burjennio wrote:Nonsense, Houllier won the UEFA cup, a competition Middlesborough amd Celtic have made the final of in recent years. He also conceded 4 goals to Alaves (who?) in the final  a team currently languishing in the segunda in Spain. His CL experiences were laughable, look what he did in Leverkusen, away at Basle, at home to Barca and Valencia we were outclassed, his coaching ability in the premier competition in European football was found out. And if we never lost the status of European giant then why did we only appear in the CL twice ever before Benitez arrival? Since he came we have appeared in the competition EVERY SEASON and always made the knockout stages - so don't try and make out that Rafa has not changed perceptions of LFC in the European game, it stinks of Anti-Rafa propaganda, its been rife on here lately, and its a disgrace

 

Well said.

heimdall wrote:I guess you al my now no which side of the fence I'm on, in fact I haven't even seen that fence in quite a while, it's way off in the distance  

Tripe. You were lauding Rafa in the summer, now your views are diametrically opposed. Don't be such a kveithau 

heimdall wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

heimdall wrote:I guess you al my now no which side of the fence I'm on, in fact I haven't even seen that fence in quite a while, it's way off in the distance  

Tripe. You were lauding Rafa in the summer, now your views are diametrically opposed. Don't be such a kveithau 

Erm can you show me a post where I was lauding Rafa please. I was optimistic yes, but not exactly full of praise for Rafa I think.

Bloody hell even when I give some credit to rafa I get slammed.

redtrader74 wrote:

Oh Lord here we go, it's attack heimdall time again 

s@int wrote:I fail to see how anyone can argue about Rafa's European prowess, 2 CL finals in three years is not something achieved easily. Just as I cant agree with the poster who says
 

I think benetiz knows liverpool aren't anywhere near challenging for the league this year

Rafa said we were going for the league AS OUR PRIORITY this season. He wouldn't be saying that if he hadn't thought we had a good chance or our team wasn't good enough.

I certainly believe the team was good enough to challenge for the title. For whatever reason it failed to materialise, I don't think you can honestly say that our team wasn't good enough to challenge, maybe not good enough to win it without a lot of luck and some outstanding performances throughout the team , but to my mind we were more than good enough to mount a challenge.

laza wrote:

s@int wrote:I fail to see how anyone can argue about Rafa's European prowess, 2 CL finals in three years is not something achieved easily. Just as I cant agree with the poster who says
 

I think benetiz knows liverpool aren't anywhere near challenging for the league this year

Rafa said we were going for the league AS OUR PRIORITY this season. He wouldn't be saying that if he hadn't thought we had a good chance or our team wasn't good enough.

I certainly believe the team was good enough to challenge for the title. For whatever reason it failed to materialise, I don't think you can honestly say that our team wasn't good enough to challenge, maybe not good enough to win it without a lot of luck and some outstanding performances throughout the team , but to my mind we were more than good enough to mount a challenge.

Well said

I find this season bitterly disappointing as I really expected a title challenge though I do think Rafa should be given his 5 years.

Those who dont fair enough while i disagree with your view I can see your reasons behind it. However some of panto like Rafa is now the villian and everything he did was bad rhetoric  is laughable.

While Tompkins rose coloured rambles are now on the nose with many.  He makes a very good point the way some fans seem to dismiss the CL like its the  Carling cup

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

laza wrote:

s@int wrote:I fail to see how anyone can argue about Rafa's European prowess, 2 CL finals in three years is not something achieved easily. Just as I cant agree with the poster who says
 

I think benetiz knows liverpool aren't anywhere near challenging for the league this year

Rafa said we were going for the league AS OUR PRIORITY this season. He wouldn't be saying that if he hadn't thought we had a good chance or our team wasn't good enough.

I certainly believe the team was good enough to challenge for the title. For whatever reason it failed to materialise, I don't think you can honestly say that our team wasn't good enough to challenge, maybe not good enough to win it without a lot of luck and some outstanding performances throughout the team , but to my mind we were more than good enough to mount a challenge.

Well said

I find this season bitterly disappointing as I really expected a title challenge though I do think Rafa should be given his 5 years.

Those who dont fair enough while i disagree with your view I can see your reasons behind it. However some of panto like Rafa is now the villian and everything he did was bad rhetoric  is laughable.

While Tompkins rose coloured rambles are now on the nose with many.  He makes a very good point the way some fans seem to dismiss the CL like its the  Carling cup

I don't think anybody is dismissing Benitez' successes in Europe, but they don't paper off the cracks enough of what's gone on in the Premiership, which is why people aren't as confident to back Benitez anymore.

As for not having a side good enough to win the league, I think is tripe. At the start of the season, no injuries, suspensions or lack of form, we had as good a starting 11 as any.

Reina--in my eyes best keeper around
Finnan--may not be world class, but stable and solid
Carra--best centre half in the world
Agger--best ball playing centre half around (IMO)
Arbeloa--probably where the other top 3 have an advantage but still a good enough left back
Pennant--was showing glimpses at the back end of last season of developing into a top right winger
Gerrard--world class
Mascheranho--better than Carrick, Flamini or Mikel who all play that position
Babel--again probably down the left is our weak spot, but he's not far behind Rosiky, Malouda and Giggs can't go on forever.
Torres--best forward in the league
Crouch--like Finnan, not world class, but a bloody good option to have.

That 11 week in week out, barring injuries or suspensions could of won the league, I think.