Liverpool FC Forum

by **muzodziwa** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:14 pm

Rafa is not immune to critisism, he is judged not according to a one time performance but over his overall tenure at a club. Many a player we can recall their excellent performance in a match, especially an inspirational performance in derby or against top teams. Rafa has been at the club for 3 years now and has won the champions league and the FA cup and he knows winning these again will not put him into the Paisley/Shankly league but winning the no 19 will definately put him as arguably the best modern era manager we have had.

Rafa has conquered Spain and I believe there is nothing much that he will prove as a manager by going to Madrid and winning the la liga, he has already won the league with a smaller club "relative to Madrid and Barcelona". If there is a league that is more competitive than the laliga is the Premiership, and again Rafa knows winning the league will be a monumental success for him as a manager. IMO, Rafa has actually laid down personal achievement inorder to achieve greater success for the team.

I am coming across as one in the "in Rafa we trust" brigade, but what pains me is when we are so obsessed with our own perception of how we should play that we over indulge and attack the manager. We are so dulled at times by our beliefs ( though limited in terms of reality) that we do not even acknowledge coaching excellence when it is due.

The derby win has been attributed by many to luck, which may insinuate the notion that some people had their daggers already drawn out for the manager and when an expected loss or draw turned out to be a victory, inevitable credit will go anywhere else apart from the one who deserved it. Rafa has made some questionable decisions in his career, and might not have had the best words to explain the substitution of Gerrard, but IMO this was a match winning decision.

Gerrard is our best player, but when he was subbed we began to control and dictate the game, we created very good chances to score were it not for the wastefulness of Voronin, Kuyt, Riise and Sissoko. I know we say Gerrard was having a fantastic game and was taking the game by the scruff of the neck, his surging runs were immense; and that was why he was subbed, he was playing his own way and at times i think that is his greatest weakness.

I think Rafa should be applauded for the derby win, and we deserved the win

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:20 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
heimdall wrote:Wow rafa is a genius, we won a game, woo hoo all is forgiven rafa you're my hero!!

well not quite, I still fail to see the tactical genius of Rafa, what does he see in Momo that no one else sees. I agree with other posters in that we have a good enough squad this season to challenge but for heavens sake lets play the best players!!

Lando I would love to earn 3 million a year for doing what rafa does but I am not growing a goatie, no way!!

Anyway overall I am very happy that we managed an epic victory against Everton and in no way did our celebrations make us look like this was a big deal for us

Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I yesterday watched the game again and I noted the happyness of the players aswell. Not only at the end, with Carraguer going absolutelly mad, but also when we drew the game after the first penalty, Kuyt saying come on, and his team mates mad of happyness aswell.

People aswell have commented Gerrard faces during the match. OBviously not good professional is happy when he's subbed after doing a good game, but at the end aswell he was very happy.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:21 pm

The_Rock wrote:...

Waving for a card is bad seen in the pitch, but a good thing in a forum?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:22 pm

Sabre wrote:Waving for a card is bad seen in the pitch, but a good thing in a forum?

BTW I was laughing with you Sabre, not at you

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:25 pm

Stick to discussing the footy, lads, and we'll have no problems.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:28 pm

Sabre wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Once again - if any of you believe you know better than Rafa - get your badges, get your hours in, and pinch his job.

Otherwise - shut the f*ck up, you silly b*stards.

another well informed intelligent augument Lando.

Excellent

Mods.....another yellow for lando please.......

Seriously........

Waving for a card is bad seen in the pitch, but a good thing in a forum?

I say something about siegfried and roy comes out with all guns blazing to protect him..... :no

............ :Oo:

........

i am gonna puke.....

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm

The_Rock wrote:
Sabre wrote:Waving for a card is bad seen in the pitch, but a good thing in a forum?

I say something about siegfried and roy comes out with all guns blazing to protect him..... ............ ........

i am gonna puke.....

"Roy" has a point in this case. Stick to the footy. :nod

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Sabre wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
heimdall wrote:Wow rafa is a genius, we won a game, woo hoo all is forgiven rafa you're my hero!!

well not quite, I still fail to see the tactical genius of Rafa, what does he see in Momo that no one else sees. I agree with other posters in that we have a good enough squad this season to challenge but for heavens sake lets play the best players!!

Lando I would love to earn 3 million a year for doing what rafa does but I am not growing a goatie, no way!!

Anyway overall I am very happy that we managed an epic victory against Everton and in no way did our celebrations make us look like this was a big deal for us

Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I yesterday watched the game again and I noted the happyness of the players aswell. Not only at the end, with Carraguer going absolutelly mad, but also when we drew the game after the first penalty, Kuyt saying come on, and his team mates mad of happyness aswell.

People aswell have commented Gerrard faces during the match. OBviously not good professional is happy when he's subbed after doing a good game, but at the end aswell he was very happy.

I watched the match on tv too......and celebrated like no tomorrow when kuyt scored the winner....

But that doesn't make me less of a fan when i criticize rafa... does it..... . :idea

holy cow......

by **Wilhelmsson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I have an Everton supporting friend, he’s a scouser, but moved to my town when he was little, I’ve known him for a while. He sent me this picture through msn last night. This is the only post I can really post the picture under, sorry in advance.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:36 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I have an Everton supporting friend, he’s a scouser, but moved to my town when he was little, I’ve known him for a while. He sent me this picture through msn last night. This is the only post I can really post the picture under, sorry in advance.

Mate,

I don't see a need for this here.
May I suggest that you open a new thread if you must?

Unless you're trying to provoke yet ANOTHER flame war on the OOTER v SCOUSER debate?

by **Wilhelmsson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:39 pm

I was providing the topic with a bit of light humour; I meant no offence by it. I posted it because it made me laugh when I saw it.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:39 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I have an Everton supporting friend, he’s a scouser, but moved to my town when he was little, I’ve known him for a while. He sent me this picture through msn last night. This is the only post I can really post the picture under, sorry in advance.

What's the relevance of this to the discussion? And does anyone seriously think that this reflects the views of a majority of Liverpool-supporting Scousers?

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:40 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:I was providing the topic with a bit of light humour; I meant no offence by it. I posted it because it made me laugh when I saw it.

FFS, use a smiley then! :angry:

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 pm

The_Rock wrote:
Sabre wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
heimdall wrote:Wow rafa is a genius, we won a game, woo hoo all is forgiven rafa you're my hero!!

well not quite, I still fail to see the tactical genius of Rafa, what does he see in Momo that no one else sees. I agree with other posters in that we have a good enough squad this season to challenge but for heavens sake lets play the best players!!

Lando I would love to earn 3 million a year for doing what rafa does but I am not growing a goatie, no way!!

Anyway overall I am very happy that we managed an epic victory against Everton and in no way did our celebrations make us look like this was a big deal for us

Your obviously not local , it was a big deal after last years 3-0 loss and after all the chanting and singing that the bitter tw@ts come out with all game , it was a big deal because we won it with a pen in injury time , it was a big deal because they got feck all off clattenberg after carra tried to perform a boston crab on lescott. The players deserved to celebrate the way they did because,they got one over our inbred friends from across the park.

I yesterday watched the game again and I noted the happyness of the players aswell. Not only at the end, with Carraguer going absolutelly mad, but also when we drew the game after the first penalty, Kuyt saying come on, and his team mates mad of happyness aswell.

People aswell have commented Gerrard faces during the match. OBviously not good professional is happy when he's subbed after doing a good game, but at the end aswell he was very happy.

I watched the match on tv too......and celebrated like no tomorrow when kuyt scored the winner....

But that doesn't make me less of a fan when i criticize rafa... does it..... .

holy cow......

Who has said such a thing? NOT ME.

Who has said Rafa is a genius for subbing Gerrard? NOT ME

Who has said Rafa doesn't make mistakes? NOT ME

Read twice and slowly this:

Rafa cannot be only criticised, HE IS being criticised, not only after defeats, but after winning a derby.

So the "Rafa cannot be criticised" is a broken record that doesn't stick to reality. The "In Rafa we trust" days, are over, and it's a natural thing because manager's trust have cycles.

But those of us who don't see a big problem in every Rafa's decissions, do not wish less than you to win the league, and are not less sad than you when we lose.

When Rafa subs Gerrard, we scratch the head aswell because I for one was loving Gerrard in that game, but that doesn't mean we think he has lost the plot, especially when he achieves the goal we had when the match started: win the game.

In a nutshell, I agree there must be criticism, but "he has lost the plot", "he is mad", "he picks name out of a hat" is not criticism, it borders the insult.

BTW, you can call me Roy, my real surname translated means "Son of Roy"

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:51 pm

Personal insults will be edited/deleted

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