Liverpool FC Forum

by **zarababe** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:01 am

Frustration is in there air for all - don't get me wrong when I heard Torres wasn't in the side against the brummies - I was funing - but why the team has gone off the boil so suddenly could be because of: the 'R' word, Pako's departure, flu' the strange climatic Changes (aka Leone's Global warming thread), the internationals, Gerrard's big toe, Alonso and Dagger, Carra's ribs and so on.. then again it wcould be that we've just lost form etc my point is that Benitez lives and breathes this game needs to do things his way - aka- the time to REALLY judge will be at the end -if we are at the end of his rebuidling journey - a journey I think we are not at the end of JUST YET!

by **LittleHobo** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:10 am

i worry about our firepower to be honest

regular first teamers like pennant and whoever plays on the left really need to start weighing in with some goals

pennant especially

two of our centre mids also have no goals in them (sissoko and mascherano)

we have strikers who aint prolific (torres has started well and i hope it continues, but the others dont look a danger)

and we have full backs who have no goals in them (riiise apart)

i worry where the goals will come from

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:54 am

LittleHobo wrote:i worry about our firepower to be honest

regular first teamers like pennant and whoever plays on the left really need to start weighing in with some goals

pennant especially

two of our centre mids also have no goals in them (sissoko and mascherano)

we have strikers who aint prolific (torres has started well and i hope it continues, but the others dont look a danger)

and we have full backs who have no goals in them (riiise apart)

i worry where the goals will come from

Football is a simple game.

The strikers and attckers are responsible for scoring goals.

The defenders are responsible for defending.

Pennant needs to add to his goal tally desperately, Benayouns scored more then him in just 3 months.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:11 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:i worry about our firepower to be honest

regular first teamers like pennant and whoever plays on the left really need to start weighing in with some goals

pennant especially

two of our centre mids also have no goals in them (sissoko and mascherano)

we have strikers who aint prolific (torres has started well and i hope it continues, but the others dont look a danger)

and we have full backs who have no goals in them (riiise apart)

i worry where the goals will come from

Football is a simple game.

The strikers and attckers are responsible for scoring goals.

The defenders are responsible for defending.

Pennant needs to add to his goal tally desperately, Benayouns scored more then him in just 3 months.

Would be nice if Kuyt could score a goal or two in the league as well. One CL goal so far this season doesn't fill me with confidence.

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:13 am

wish it was that easy, but the defenders have to learn to pass (agger) rather than just hoof (nearly everyone nowadays it seems)

by **maguskwt** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:09 pm

dawson99 wrote:wish it was that easy, but the defenders have to learn to pass (agger) rather than just hoof (nearly everyone nowadays it seems)

you mean agger needs to learn to pass or are you implying agger passes well?

I agree though... Liverpool needs to play with the ball on the ground more... keep possession, pass well, put the pressure on the opponent, quite simple... this kind of game will be more suitable for torres and even kuyt IMO...

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:37 pm

agger passes well and runs well with the ball, compared to carra and hyps who hoof...in my opinion

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:45 pm

dawson99 wrote:agger passes well and runs well with the ball, compared to carra and hyps who hoof...in my opinion

Agreed.

Part of the problem has been the bypass of the (greatest) midfield (in the world) of late with the balls going over the top far too much.

Arguably the two best ball players in their respective positions Alonso and Agger have been a BIG loss.

by **Judge** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:02 pm

dawson99 wrote:wish it was that easy, but the defenders have to learn to pass (agger) rather than just hoof (nearly everyone nowadays it seems)

wimbledon of the eighties had that off to a fine art

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:07 pm

You make a fair point Judgy, and the Arsenal team of the early nineties refined the method to the point where cultured defenders such as Lawrenson, Hansen et al probably retired a tad earlier than would be the case nowadays.

As always when you slightly alter the rules in football or any other sport, a bi-product is produced which is often quite different to the intention of the law makers. The alteration to the back pass laws produced a revertion to long ball football which was very likely totally at odds with the wish to make football more of a spectacle.

The danger however with the system is that for it to work, the whole team has to be set up to slavishly follow the mantra. Long "hoofs" without marathon men midfielders to surround the pint of contact, without a huge physical presence to contest everything in hs area, and without a collective resolution to play at a ridiculously high, yet steccato tempo to disturb the opposition are worthless.

I would say however that often when people criticise players and teams the root cause is often one step back from where most people look. It is definately the case in my opinion with Hyppia and Carra "hoofing" it that the root cause is one step back. That two so-called World-class central midfileders would allow it happen time and time again without absolutely blowing a gasket is a total anathema to me. I can't imagine what shade of purple a Keane, or even a Vierra would turn if the ball kept going over their heads.

I alluded on another thread to being distinctly underwhelmed so far with the Gerrard/Masherano pairing and I make no apologies here for restating that. That I was one of the major advocates for the compatability of the duo makes it even harder to admit, but for me the pair of them need a rocket up their erse. If either were anywhere near the top of their game then the "hoof" would only happen once before the central defender was made acutely aware of the unacceptability of the tactic. The answer of course is to come in and show for the ball which neither are doing. It is for this reason that unless one or both can get their act together, those of us who (with good reason) pointed out that Alonso is too often well below his best and too far into his comfort zone, would still have him back with open arms.

Humble pie for me on this one. The main two at the moment aren't doing it and neither can have any complaints whatsoever if when the Spaniard is fit, they are either "rotated" or moved elsewhere.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

I think it's too early to say something definitive about the Mascherano/Gerrard partnership.

Rafa, is far from showing signs of changing his rotation plans, from the official site

"Because we had started really well people were thinking perhaps this could be our year," said Benitez.

"Then we lost some points and then people thought, maybe not. I think there is frustration around the team.

"Sometimes you don't know if it's better to start really well or a little bit slower and continue progressing.

"I think we are in a good position at the moment but it's true that we need to improve.

"It's important we have kept the unbeaten run going. It really was a little disappointing after the Tottenham game because we conceded two goals, two big mistakes, but we continue unbeaten and that's important.

"I think we are in a better position than last year. That is important. If we continue to be close to the top of the table, in two or three months and continue to change players I think we will be capable of doing something at the end of the season."

FFS Rafa, if you know the people is frustrated, don't mention again you'll keep changing players, you're going to wind up them further

Seriously, I'm happy the manager seems confident to improve and doing something important in the league.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:33 pm

"Sometimes you don't know if it's better to start really well or a little bit slower and continue progressing.

Try starting well and continue progressing, it just might work

by **redhayesy** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:44 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
dawson99 wrote:agger passes well and runs well with the ball, compared to carra and hyps who hoof...in my opinion

Agreed.

Part of the problem has been the bypass of the (greatest) midfield (in the world) of late with the balls going over the top far too much.

Arguably the two best ball players in their respective positions Alonso and Agger have been a BIG loss.

Leon mate,

problem solved, let"s just stop singing
"the greatest midield in the world"
for the next few games, & see if
it has any impact on the players!
that way they might start passing to feet
instead of balls going far to much over
the top

by **Wilhelmsson** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:31 pm

zarababe wrote:No actually if you read what I 'wrote' in my sarcasm - it is about the way people are now doubting the bosses credentials - I don't look at post counts I read what ppl wrote and wondered which forum I'd ventured on.

The opening article of this thread sets the context - we need to see what happens before we pass further judgements.

It is posts such as this one which incite sarcastic sentences. People will have different views on how the team is progressing and just because Rafa has credentials doesn’t mean to say the man is always correct and such credentials do not immune him from criticism.

Everyone has different levels of satisfaction, you might be content, but then others aren’t, there’s no need to play high and mighty IMO.

There is always room for judgements, each passing match requires judgements, and what use is it waiting until the end of the season to put things into perspective when one can achieve this throughout the season?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:16 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
zarababe wrote:No actually if you read what I 'wrote' in my sarcasm - it is about the way people are now doubting the bosses credentials - I don't look at post counts I read what ppl wrote and wondered which forum I'd ventured on.

The opening article of this thread sets the context - we need to see what happens before we pass further judgements.

It is posts such as this one which incite sarcastic sentences. People will have different views on how the team is progressing and just because Rafa has credentials doesn’t mean to say the man is always correct and such credentials do not immune him from criticism.

Everyone has different levels of satisfaction, you might be content, but then others aren’t, there’s no need to play high and mighty IMO.

There is always room for judgements, each passing match requires judgements, and what use is it waiting until the end of the season to put things into perspective when one can achieve this throughout the season?

This never happens, though.

You get brain-dead prats yapping on about things they know nothing about.

"Opinions are like a*seholes", as the saying goes.

Trouble is, some peoples a*seholes produce far too much sh*t.

Liverpool FC Forum

Rafa criticism just has to stop - Tony Barrett

Who is online