Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:43 am

redtrader74 wrote:What is important is the games that coincide with the African Nations cup, that is where Chelsea and Arsenal could fall down.

that's actually a very good point.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:47 am

I think this "zonal-marking" thing is a bit of an urban myth to b honest. I've always been an advocate of the system and its various derivatives, and the problem Liverpool had when Rafa first introduced it was not the system itself, it was that the players weren't playing it very well. This added to the Andy Gray factor, whereby he spent hours going on about the system even though he patently obviously doesn't understand its fundamentals, meant that many "pundits" slagged of the employment of such a "European" way of defending.

That the great Liverpool teams of the seventies and eighties employed a form of zonal marking, and many teams in the Premiership did and continue so to do as well was seemingly irrelavent, Rafa was a fool for bringing this brand new system over here and expecting it to work. I remember doing long posts at the time and boring everyone senseless with the technicalities, but like many of the "anti-rotators" I was and remain an advocate of defending zonally. Rafa and his team deserve great credit for being brave enough to stick to their guns when the players couldn't get their heads around it, but they didn't introduce it to English football by any means.

I'm not saying this about you BM, but I have seen it said a couple of times on here when people are defending rotation "well remember what they said about zonal marking etc etc ". Not so in my case I'm afraid.

by **redtrader74** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:54 am

stmichael wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:What is important is the games that coincide with the African Nations cup, that is where Chelsea and Arsenal could fall down.

that's actually a very good point.

They will lose players from around the 10th Jan to 10th Feb, depending on how far the relevant teams go.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:56 am

redtrader74 wrote:
stmichael wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:What is important is the games that coincide with the African Nations cup, that is where Chelsea and Arsenal could fall down.

that's actually a very good point.

They will lose players from around the 10th Jan to 10th Feb, depending on how far the relevant teams go.

I think some may go earlier to train and prepare with their respective teams.

by **redtrader74** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:58 am

LFC2007 wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
stmichael wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:What is important is the games that coincide with the African Nations cup, that is where Chelsea and Arsenal could fall down.

that's actually a very good point.

They will lose players from around the 10th Jan to 10th Feb, depending on how far the relevant teams go.

I think some may go earlier to train and prepare with their respective teams.

I gave them 10 days, the tournament starts 20th Jan i think i read.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:06 pm

Yep, starts on 20th. Although I remember the last one in 06 and some teams were in dispute about when players could leave to join up with their national side - hopefully that will kick off and cause unrest amongst the Chelsea players.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:07 pm

bigmick wrote:I think this "zonal-marking" thing is a bit of an urban myth to b honest. I've always been an advocate of the system and its various derivatives, and the problem Liverpool had when Rafa first introduced it was not the system itself, it was that the players weren't playing it very well. This added to the Andy Gray factor, whereby he spent hours going on about the system even though he patently obviously doesn't understand its fundamentals, meant that many "pundits" slagged of the employment of such a "European" way of defending.

That the great Liverpool teams of the seventies and eighties employed a form of zonal marking, and many teams in the Premiership did and continue so to do as well was seemingly irrelavent, Rafa was a fool for bringing this brand new system over here and expecting it to work. I remember doing long posts at the time and boring everyone senseless with the technicalities, but like many of the "anti-rotators" I was and remain an advocate of defending zonally. Rafa and his team deserve great credit for being brave enough to stick to their guns when the players couldn't get their heads around it, but they didn't introduce it to English football by any means.

I'm not saying this about you BM, but I have seen it said a couple of times on here when people are defending rotation "well remember what they said about zonal marking etc etc ". Not so in my case I'm afraid.

Whether he brought it in (zonal marking) or not shouldnt matter though Mick.

What I was trying to get at though Mick is Benitez seems to stick by his methods. Whether its Rotations, defending, substitutions and selections.

Okay the zonal marking thing in particular is of a whole different topic, if your talking about ' who introduced it to the English game'.

But one thing is for sure in my book, he's only really nailed the "zonal marking" on the head with our team, if you take into consideration, rotation, team selections and what not. I know there is a much more broader picture as to which Rafa has excelled. But the blatantly obvious ones, on matchdays themselves appear to be falling a little short in my book. Like I said before, will he carry on and stick with his methods, or will he change them to suit accordingly ?

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:10 pm

I'm just waiting for a "Liverpool get Villa" thread in the rumour section now.

by **Alonso14** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:19 pm

Rafa will stop rotating as much when he has got players he can trust.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:24 pm

I agree with the point made above, on many occassions it has been a lack of trust in certain players that has led to rotation. Not on every occassion e.g. the Crouch scenario was puzzling, but Pennant for example couldn't be trusted in some games early on.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:29 pm

Alonso14 wrote:Rafa will stop rotating as much when he has got players he can trust.

I actually disagree, i think he trusted players last season and they either let him down or were just not good enough.
He probably will rotate this season like the previous 3, lets just hope that the players he is bringing in are good enough to make it not matter.

Thats what cost us last season imo.

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:32 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
Alonso14 wrote:Rafa will stop rotating as much when he has got players he can trust.

I actually disagree, i think he trusted players last season and they either let him down or were just not good enough.
He probably will rotate this season like the previous 3, lets just hope that the players he is bringing in are good enough to make it not matter.

Thats what cost us last season imo.

exactly. it's one thing trusting a player but whether or not he's good enough is an entirely different matter.

look at zenden for example. rafa trusted him in the big european games for his experience. however was he ever going to win you a game or produce anything?

by **Alonso14** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
Alonso14 wrote:Rafa will stop rotating as much when he has got players he can trust.

I actually disagree, i think he trusted players last season and they either let him down or were just not good enough.
He probably will rotate this season like the previous 3, lets just hope that the players he is bringing in are good enough to make it not matter.

Thats what cost us last season imo.

Really its the same thing. He didn't rotate as much during the FA Cup season.

Renia, Finnan, Carragher, Hypia, Riise, Gerrard, Sissoko, Alonso, Kewel were always in the team when fit. Only the strikers were really rotated and even then Crouch played so many games.

We rotated more last leason because the players he trusted were not playing aswell or injured. All of the above players had a poorer season with the execption of Finnan.

None of the players above are really flair players either which maybe be why we are lacking goals.

by **Alonso14** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:40 pm

stmichael wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Alonso14 wrote:Rafa will stop rotating as much when he has got players he can trust.

I actually disagree, i think he trusted players last season and they either let him down or were just not good enough.
He probably will rotate this season like the previous 3, lets just hope that the players he is bringing in are good enough to make it not matter.

Thats what cost us last season imo.

exactly. it's one thing trusting a player but whether or not he's good enough is an entirely different matter.

look at zenden for example. rafa trusted him in the big european games for his experience. however was he ever going to win you a game or produce anything?

don't you agree there was no other player that could be trusted tho? At least zenden didnt make mistakes. And he was rotated quite heavily anyway.

by **mungi** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:42 pm

liverpool v villa, should be good

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