Liverpool FC Forum

by **babu** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:26 pm

pssft.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:31 pm

babu wrote:pssft.

worthy of a post!

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:52 pm

dawson99 wrote:Dont get me wrong, i still think we can do it... but we arent really any closer than we were 2 years ago. we are still losing too many games and not scoring enough goals. We still rely too much on less players than other teams and we still dont relay our cup form to the league.

Last season we were as close as we've been to the league title in a long time. Fact.

This season we are struggling and appear to be someway short of matching--let alone surpassing--what we achieved last season in the league. But, we need to see how things have panned out come the end of the season. As numerous people have noted, we also lost at Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and Highbury last season and, while we managed a draw at the Reebok and a win at Goodison last term, we also lost at places like Fulham and drew at places like Birmingham. So, are we yet in a position to say--based on results--that we've gone backwards? No we're not. We'll have to see how the results go for the rest of the season before we know whether we've taken a step back from our excellent points haul last season.

But, even if we fail to match the 82 points of last season we still need to figure out which season was the abberation: last season's great points haul or this season's disappointing one? Ever the optimist, I propose that this season is the abberation (for the numerous reasons discussed ad infinitum in posts over the last 3 months) and that last season clearly illustrates that we have taken a great step forward in the league under Rafa. To my mind, that's 60 million pounds well spent with a lot to show for it. Are we any closer than under Houllier? Most definitely in my mind.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:56 pm

Yeah but Bob, under houllier we were miles away. We have already lost 5 away games (yeah, the hardest 5) but will we win every other away game? We have dropped 15 points just in the losses, no matter how hard the games we were its just not good enough. but it will be

by **jkop** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:07 pm

Rata may have spent 60+ and yes i do think we have the players, i think we would have done much better if Rafa knew from the start who his best 11 were and played them every game barring injurys. The team may have settled quicker and we might have got the right results.

by **joko** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:32 pm

and don't forget, despite the spending, rafa has led us to raise money too, from champion competition, and from merchandise which reasonably rising high along with he popularity. here ini china much more people now know Liverpool than before. and some stores now start to 'bravely' display liverpool jerseys. what i'm trying to say is, the money spent is not necessarily expenses, but particularly good investment.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:38 pm

dawson99 wrote:Yeah but Bob, under houllier we were miles away.

Precisely my point: under Rafa we are not miles away. We're not yet true title contenders but we showed last season that we can get amongst the "big boys" and string together some impressive results in the league. Houllier couldn't have dreamed of racking up 82 points.

We have already lost 5 away games (yeah, the hardest 5) but will we win every other away game?

This is why we'll have to wait and see. We can only truly compare this season to last season at the end of the campaign, when we've played the full complement of games. Last season our away record was 10 wins, 4 draws and 5 losses. We've had a grim start on the road this season but that record is still capable of being matched or surpassed, as is our home record. It may not feel like it, but we are still in a position to take more points than we did last season. Not saying we will, mind you, but it's possible. Let's see where we are in May before we decide that we've taken a significant step back as a club.

We have dropped 15 points just in the losses, no matter how hard the games we were its just not good enough. but it will be

Here's the crux of the matter because for many fans, it's not enough just to match last year's success--we need to improve. And, as many noted prior to the season, one huge yard stick for measuring such improvement is our performance against the big clubs, especially on the road. Obviously, we've come up woefully short on that score and the disappointment is understandable. Getting nothing out of visits to Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and the Emirates Stadium suggests that we've not improved much since last season. Yet, these results, in and of themselves, do not mean we've taken a major step back from last season either.

Perhaps matching our excellent overall league performance last season was truly the most we could have hoped for this season, given the new players, tricky schedule, World Cup hangover, etc. I'll admit I was one who was looking for us to kick on in the league this season and truly challenge for the title but that seems beyond our grasp now. What I won't do, however, is conclude that we've stagnated or stepped backward as a club on the back of just a handful of poor away results against some legitimately tough opponents. If our road woes continue against lesser sides--and, yes, I'd put Boro in that category--than I'll re-evaluate. Even if we struggle all season on the road, though, I'll still feel that we've improved exponentially since the dark days that marked the end of the Houllier years.

by **peterc1992** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:42 pm

there is no doubt(in my mind) that liverpool can go on and win every premiership agme from now to the end is the season because we have alot of easy home games and ,i can t see us losing at home

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:54 pm

Dont forget he has also sold or otherwise got rid of 32 players for over £36million in his time here . While buying 30 players for £80million sounds quite a lot, in terms of cost to Liverpool he has probably reduced the wages bill conciderably allowing for inflation etc. and that with any luck we should also get £7million for Cisse.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:59 pm

I voted NO.
Purely based on how we stand as compared to our chief rivals.
I've posted this before so apologies for boring you guys with the updated version below.
Purely based on FACTUAL results.

1. 2006-2007... 3 games played, 3 games lost
2. 2005-2006 ... 6 games played, 1 win (Arsenal), 1 draw (ManU) and 4 losses including a 4-1 thrashing to Chelsea.
3. 2004-2005 ... 6 games played, 1 win (Arsenal) and 5 losses.

Grand total of 2 Wins, 1 Draw & 12 Losses to our 3 Main rivals in the last 2.5 years or so.

We haven't been closing in on them and in fact may actually have drifted further away.
Unfortunately, we are far from closing in on the premiership title.

As for the 60+ million spent, I think that Rafa has done better in the transfer market than Houllier to date. No horrendously expensive flops to date and relieving the club of plenty of the more expensively waged deadwood around. Hasn't been all that fantastic but definitely better than Houllier....

In my opinion, we may be no closer to winning the premiership but the clubs finances are in much better state I believe....

by **67-1161385641** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:55 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Dont get me wrong, i still think we can do it... but we arent really any closer than we were 2 years ago. we are still losing too many games and not scoring enough goals. We still rely too much on less players than other teams and we still dont relay our cup form to the league.

Last season we were as close as we've been to the league title in a long time. Fact.

This season we are struggling and appear to be someway short of matching--let alone surpassing--what we achieved last season in the league. But, we need to see how things have panned out come the end of the season. As numerous people have noted, we also lost at Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and Highbury last season and, while we managed a draw at the Reebok and a win at Goodison last term, we also lost at places like Fulham and drew at places like Birmingham. So, are we yet in a position to say--based on results--that we've gone backwards? No we're not. We'll have to see how the results go for the rest of the season before we know whether we've taken a step back from our excellent points haul last season.

But, even if we fail to match the 82 points of last season we still need to figure out which season was the abberation: last season's great points haul or this season's disappointing one? Ever the optimist, I propose that this season is the abberation (for the numerous reasons discussed ad infinitum in posts over the last 3 months) and that last season clearly illustrates that we have taken a great step forward in the league under Rafa. To my mind, that's 60 million pounds well spent with a lot to show for it. Are we any closer than under Houllier? Most definitely in my mind.

Fiction, we closer under Houllier in the 2001/02 season and we were closet under Evans in the 1996/97 season when we finished on 68 points to United's 75 points.

I agree we need to see how things pan out come the end of the season, I'm sure our season will pick up now we've got some of the more tricky fixtures out of the way, saying that we haven't won at the Riverside since 2002, but I'm confident we end that long run on the weekend. We are doing as well as what we did last season, but that to me isn't good enough, we should be doing better than what we are doing, improving upon last season, going out and getting eighty three, eighty four or ninety points compared to last season, but even though we should be doing that, I can appreciate the task Rafa has taken on, with the shoe string budget he has at his disposal and the state the club was left in when he took charge, so I won't be over critical come the end of the season if we go from eighty three points, to seventy three and if we go from third place to fourth place. Last season we did so well that we were always going to have trouble going to the next level. IMO last season we jumped up two levels from the season before and this was always going to be a problem, especially with the World Cup and a bad pre-season and the mass changes in formation from defensive to attacking by signing more attacking players.

Results wise, you are correct we haven't gone backwards, but in terms of performance, clean sheets and confidence we definitely have, it's evident to see, we aren't playing as well as we did last season and we do have better players than last season so if we were playing on the high standard we did last season, I reckon we would be a lot closer than we what we are now. I also agree it's all about waiting until the end of the season, but I'll be pleased if we can of unbeaten in the league up until Xmas.

I think last season we jumped up one too many levels when regards to where we should be in the league, we were close with Rafa, but as you say we cannot really judge this season because we're not really that far into it, the end of the season is the time to judge whether we are still on the same level as we were with Houllier and to some extent Evans or whether we have actually made the step up from Houllier's days. At the moment, I'll say we are the same as we were under Houllier, but that's going upon what's happened so far this season, but whatever happens this season, I'm sure we'll launch a serious challenge for the league under Rafa's guidance within the next two years. I'm also sure we'll win it.

by **lfc-all-my-life** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:59 pm

i think that he is a :censored:

manager

by **lfc-all-my-life** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:02 pm

comon liverpool,are we playing tonite?

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:03 pm

lfc-all-my-life wrote:i think that he is a manager

shakespeare couldnt have been more eloquent :wwww

{does he realise that that is sarcasm?}

by **lfc-all-my-life** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:05 pm

Liverpool FC Forum

2 and a half years on - And 60+ million spent

2 and a half years on - And 60+ million spent

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