Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:41 pm

Sorry to upset some, but IMHO Roy Evans wasnt a man-manager. May be a good coach but not one who commnaded respect. This is one of the biggest jobs in football and you need a tough man for the job - Mourinho, Clough, Fergie, Shanks - they are and were the boss.

Rafa, yep I back him. There's no one else out there to put a world beating squad together.

He's the best there is, but it takes time.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:59 pm

CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:DO some people on here not realise the enormity of the task facing Rafa?

Could any boss in the World win the Premiership at LFC, other than our own Benitez? Could they f*ck.

Any placing Rafa gets us is better than any other manager could achieve.

You'd do well to remember that.

There is one another manager, he was pushed out by Gerard Houllier in 1998.

Please tell me you're joking?

Roy Evans - top man, average (at best) manager.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:33 am

Bad Bob wrote:He's still the best man for the job. Fact. He get's it wrong on occasion but all managers do (Mourinho playing Geremi at RB in the FA Cup semi? Fergie's John O'Shea at CM experiment? Wenger dropping Henry for a vital league match at Old Trafford last winter?). But, he's brought us a remarkable amount of success at a time when we are some ways behind the buying power and playing strength of our main rivals.

Those that want him out need to ask: who else could have achieved what he has with this club in the last 2.5 years? And, who else could step in now and turn us into a team that could fight off the Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea for the title? No one.

As ever BOB you've hit the nail on the head. Currently there is nobody in the whole of Europe who has the tactical ability of Rafa and the endless rumours of Real Madrid, Inter & AC Milan wanting to lure him away from anfield would seem to confirm this. The likes of O'Neill & Curbishley are NOT going to deliver the title to Anfield in my honest opinion and there aren't any other names that spring to mind that would even be considered. O'Neill does have the ability to raise teams up a level or two but he's never been tested at the top end of the league. He is doing well at Villa but they have long since been considered giants of the english game. We on the other hand are LFC 18 times champions of england and 5 times champions of Europe and these achievements are going to weigh heavy on any persons shoulders and the person to take that weight for me is Rafael Benítez Maudes (and yes that's his full name according to Wikipedia). Stick Moanrinho in the same boat as Rafa (i.e. Limited funds, over a 100 million quids worth of shite to get off the payroll) and I'd bet you my left bollok he wouldn't have delivered the champions league and FA cup.
However I'll reiterate what I said before, Rafa needs to get these annoying little problems out of our team and their performances that are costing the team so much and soon. If he doesn't he'll soon find the fans turning and soon it's a slippery slope to getting the old P45 unfortunately.

AS for the side argument about Roy Evans I believe that he had us playing some of the best attacking football since the days of Barnes, Beardsley and Co. when we were considered to be better than the Brazilians but he was NO man-manager. The way some of the players walked all over him are proof of this and I'd say this was his ultimate failing. When GH was brought in I reckon a European style General Manager and Head Coach setup may have proven more fruitful than the Joint manager role that was imposed.

by **GOAT** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:49 am

As long as we win every game we play from now til the end of the season i'll be happy.

by **puroresu** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:22 am

O'Neil is a top manager. He has nothing to prove. Its plainly obvious that he could lead a top side to great things. Im a celtic man and what he did there was immense. He goes to Villa and with the same players as last year installs belief into that side.

Under Evans we played the best football I have seen since Dalglish. Was so entertaining. pass and move, open expansive football. He did a gret job after the mess souness left us in and was treated very badly by the club in the whole double management debacle.

by **tel** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:05 am

Bad Bob wrote:He's still the best man for the job. Fact. He get's it wrong on occasion but all managers do (Mourinho playing Geremi at RB in the FA Cup semi? Fergie's John O'Shea at CM experiment? Wenger dropping Henry for a vital league match at Old Trafford last winter?). But, he's brought us a remarkable amount of success at a time when we are some ways behind the buying power and playing strength of our main rivals.

Those that want him out need to ask: who else could have achieved what he has with this club in the last 2.5 years? And, who else could step in now and turn us into a team that could fight off the Mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea for the title? No one.

Mourinho is a bad comparison. He rotates much less than Rafa or Ferg. And he never plays Lampard out of position.

Rafa should let other teams worry about us, and less time worrying about tactics and how we match up with others.

No doubt Mourinho has paid the price in the CL by not rotating his squad. But if its the league you want, a settled team is the proven formula.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:33 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again I think this is Rafa's REAL first season of transition, especially with the bulk of players brought in. Okay our form hasnt gone as I would of hoped but there is no way Rafa's job should be talked about in such way of giving him the boot, we cant expect instant success and no other manager would do any better in the short amount of time.

But when you here Arsene Wenger say that Liverpool played really well and good football, you no its not right. Because he's always moaned about us before being defensive and stiffling his sides game. Thats when we've come away with apoint or even won, he wont praise us then. So two major issues need to be addressed at the mo in my mind.

1) Tighten up as a unit

2) Rafa has got to work on the mentality of the players more dare I say it like Houllier did.

by **vlady16.1** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:44 am

after we were liberated from the french terror i felt martin o'neill was the best choice-- i will admit that i cannot believe the job rafa has done

mourinho better-- i have my doubts that with what rafa was left with jose would have a) done as well or b) stayed---
remember claudio rienieri - got them very far in the champs league( and should have won) before jose took over-- claudio had built a great core

back off on rafa -- he's done a great job and just unloaded our favourite bum -- salif -- he will get there....we will get there

by **red37** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:07 am

im sick of all this Rafa we trust. of course we bloody do! if any of you think there is, currently a better potential for this club under any other 'direction' than the one Benitez is currently over two seasons into shaping...and you'd find it much more palatable to go backwards into mediocrity instead of recognising the foundations upon which he is transforming this clubs future insurance. both his and the boards for that matter, despite reports to the contrary and regardless of whether it changes ownership...then you have little or no authority in following a club of this pedigree at all, let alone be consulted as to exactly 'what' you want it to represent.

some times in life you have to be braver than that. and be willing to accept a little more responsibility in your words and actions when looking forwards to the time when it does all fall into place. then we'll hear the woodwork creaking ever louder - as they all fly out of it waving their arms in triumph and wondering how lucky they were to have had a manager of such class and humility - where in truth they might have settled for a second rate gaffer, then spent their whole time demoralising his own achievements until the point where he also f**ks off leaving the club pretty much bereft of any hope be it blind or visceral. but certainly none you could call tangible or realistic. wake up ppl.

by **67-1161385641** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:50 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:DO some people on here not realise the enormity of the task facing Rafa?

Could any boss in the World win the Premiership at LFC, other than our own Benitez? Could they f*ck.

Any placing Rafa gets us is better than any other manager could achieve.

You'd do well to remember that.

There is one another manager, he was pushed out by Gerard Houllier in 1998.

Please tell me you're joking?

Roy Evans - top man, average (at best) manager.

I don't joke when it comes to football, I'm being serious. Evans was a fantastic manager considering he never had a large amount of backing from the board, considering the mess Souness left us in, he did very well with the limited resources he had available to him. He got consistently near the top of the table in his short spell with us. Prehaps he was no man manager, but it's all about results and we was starting to get us the results before Houllier joint the club. Don't get me wrong I'm happy with Rafa, of course I have faith in Rafa, I believe Rafa is the right boss for us and he will win us the Premiership, my argument is that we would of won the league under Evans if he had the full backing of the board, had the resources given to Houllier and the patience the board displayed with Houllier.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:51 am

CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:DO some people on here not realise the enormity of the task facing Rafa?

Could any boss in the World win the Premiership at LFC, other than our own Benitez? Could they f*ck.

Any placing Rafa gets us is better than any other manager could achieve.

You'd do well to remember that.

There is one another manager, he was pushed out by Gerard Houllier in 1998.

Please tell me you're joking?

Roy Evans - top man, average (at best) manager.

I don't joke when it comes to football, I'm being serious. Evans was a fantastic manager considering he never had a large amount of backing from the board, considering the mess Souness left us in, he did very well with the limited resources he had available to him. He got consistently near the top of the table in his short spell with us. Prehaps he was no man manager, but it's all about results and we was starting to get us the results before Houllier joint the club. Don't get me wrong I'm happy with Rafa, of course I have faith in Rafa, I believe Rafa is the right boss for us and he will win us the Premiership, my argument is that we would of won the league had Evans had the full backing of the board, had the resources given to Houllier and the patience the board had with Houllier.

I agree with you, a point backed up in fowlers book also

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:48 am

CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
CharmlessMan wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:DO some people on here not realise the enormity of the task facing Rafa?

Could any boss in the World win the Premiership at LFC, other than our own Benitez? Could they f*ck.

Any placing Rafa gets us is better than any other manager could achieve.

You'd do well to remember that.

There is one another manager, he was pushed out by Gerard Houllier in 1998.

Please tell me you're joking?

Roy Evans - top man, average (at best) manager.

I don't joke when it comes to football, I'm being serious. Evans was a fantastic manager considering he never had a large amount of backing from the board, considering the mess Souness left us in, he did very well with the limited resources he had available to him. He got consistently near the top of the table in his short spell with us. Prehaps he was no man manager, but it's all about results and we was starting to get us the results before Houllier joint the club. Don't get me wrong I'm happy with Rafa, of course I have faith in Rafa, I believe Rafa is the right boss for us and he will win us the Premiership, my argument is that we would of won the league under Evans if he had the full backing of the board, had the resources given to Houllier and the patience the board displayed with Houllier.

To say Evans never had the backing of the board is a strange thing to say. They backed him when he bought Babb and Scales (both record transfer fees) for a combined total of £7.1 million, he also bought Collymore for a record £8.5 million. Hardly no backing from the board. In fact it was only after signing Ince for £4.2 million in 1997 that the boards faith seemed to lessen.

He inherited some great players from Souness (along with a lot of cr@p) Mcmanaman, Fowler, Rush and Barnes to name just a few.

Arguably the £43million that Evans spent is similar allowing for inflation etc to the £100million+ that Houllier spent.

I think the board lost faith with Evans because of the perceived view that he couldnt control certain players, namely Collymore. Then again who could!

Evans was a great coach and a good and decent man from all I have read, unfortunately not the great manager we needed.

by **Big Niall** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:55 pm

sure Mourinho had a lot of money but Chelsea have won the league every year under him in a country new to him. I think he must go down as the best (or Wenger). Note he doesn't rotate much either.

Evans was a good manager and greatly improved the club from Souness, a much better manager than the fool Houlier. However Evans lacked the steel a manager must have and should have pulled Fowler, mcmanaman, Collymore, FAt ruddock and others out of their laziness. Would never win the league against better managers like Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho.

Evans is a top man and a good (but not good enough) manager.

by **67-1161385641** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:33 pm

s@int wrote:To say Evans never had the backing of the board is a strange thing to say. They backed him when he bought Babb and Scales (both record transfer fees) for a combined total of £7.1 million, he also bought Collymore for a record £8.5 million. Hardly no backing from the board. In fact it was only after signing Ince for £4.2 million in 1997 that the boards faith seemed to lessen.

He inherited some great players from Souness (along with a lot of cr@p) Mcmanaman, Fowler, Rush and Barnes to name just a few.

Arguably the £43million that Evans spent is similar allowing for inflation etc to the £100million+ that Houllier spent.

I think the board lost faith with Evans because of the perceived view that he couldnt control certain players, namely Collymore. Then again who could!

Evans was a great coach and a good and decent man from all I have read, unfortunately not the great manager we needed.

It's not strange thing to say, the board couldn't find a reason to sack Evans, so they employed Houllier to force Evans' hand into resigning. If you look at the amount of money the board gave to Houllier compared to Evans and the patience the board showed Houllier to that of Evans you can see Houllier had more backing, I don't know why because the football we played under Houllier wasn't a patch on the style we played under Evans. Evans managed to get us a top finish every season, more than what could said for Houllier. We were a few signings off a championship winning side and Evans was forced out at the wrong time.

I think the whole spice boy’s era shouldn't have cast a shadow over the football style Evans had us playing and the results he was getting, a few more years and we would have won the Premiership under Evans. He is and always will be vastly underrated manager, its ashame; because I haven't had as much optimism of us winning the league since Evans left Liverpool.

Would he be able to do it today? I don't know, football's changed, but I'm a hundred percent sure we would have won the league under Evans and countless other trophies.

by **Pedro O'Maradona** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:39 pm

It must be very bad if people are looking for Roy Evans back, granted his teams played lovely attacking football but they couldnt defend to save their lives under him. Roy inherited some great players but couldnt control the dressing room.
There is a manager doing very well in France at the moment with Lyon they should get him .....I cant remember his name though ..Gerard something or other....

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