Liverpool FC Forum

by **davo_LFC** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:12 pm

Cisse mouths off to the press too much, he could have saved his "am being forced out" routine for his autobiography.

Rafa has to be ruthless or does everyone want a situation like under houllier where the sh.ite in the squad is allowed to linger around and stay on the books. Rafa is building a team to challenge for the title and champions league, and unfortunately djib just isnt good enough to be part of the set-up. We also need the funds from his transfer, players are sold at the clubs, thats life and it can happen unexpectedly. Just ask danny murphy.

Cisse may not have been played in his favoured position or whatever but that is simply because rafa doesnt trust him, i mean when you send him on for the last 20 minutes in a crucial semi final what does he do? Fu.ck all. Doesnt even close people down.

It was never going to work out TBH, his game is not good enough for the prem. He has showed glimpses of his potential with goals in the fa cup final and in the derby, i will never forget his pen in istanbul but he is not in rafas plans so he has to accept it rather than having parting shots at the manager like a kunt. That for a start is not how players should behave at our club, save that behaviour for the chavskis of this world.

people might say it was arlarse that houllier got sacked when he arrived but what about rafa, the majority of his budget wasted on a striker who can not control a ball. Cisse might not want to leave and it appears that he loves the club and fans but he has to go for the good of the club. End of.

His attitude was dodgy but i liked the way he worked up the opposing fans like at newcastle, he had fire in his belly and i wish him a good recovery from his broken leg and that he bangs them in back in france. Hes just not rafas kind of player and rafa has a job to do so there is no room for senitment. we would all have loved it if cisse was the top class striker we have been searching for since MO left but unfortunately he is not good enough so he needs replacing with someone who is if we are to progress.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:10 pm

john craig wrote:I don't think 'treating him unfairly' is the right phrase to be honest, although I can see where you're coming from. Cisse was unlucky that the manager that signed him had been booted by the time he arrived, so he was always up against it. But Cisse has had more than enough chances to prove himself in the team and has not taken them, he has never looked convincing whether he's been played wide right or up front. People defend him by saying he's scored 19 goals. But that only tells half the story, as most of those were against lesser premiership teams or sub standard european opposition. And he rarely contributed anything else to the team in terms of his general play.

At the end of the day what was Benitez supposed to do? Keep playing Cisse when he's blatantly bollox. In 2 years Benitez has turned this club around and that would have been impossible without being ruthless along the way. There is no room for sentiment if you want to be successful.

Getting 2 broken legs in 2 years is unfair, but that's not Benitez's doing. Given Cisse's history of moaning to the press, being unbelievably lazy on the pitch and not possessing much talent, I think Benitez has been as fair as he can be to him. Doesn't mean to say I don't feel slightly for Cisse the way things have worked out, but I certainly don't think Benitez should have done anything differently.

spot on

by **Good Bob** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm

john craig wrote:I don't think 'treating him unfairly' is the right phrase to be honest, although I can see where you're coming from. Cisse was unlucky that the manager that signed him had been booted by the time he arrived, so he was always up against it. But Cisse has had more than enough chances to prove himself in the team and has not taken them, he has never looked convincing whether he's been played wide right or up front. People defend him by saying he's scored 19 goals. But that only tells half the story, as most of those were against lesser premiership teams or sub standard european opposition. And he rarely contributed anything else to the team in terms of his general play.

At the end of the day what was Benitez supposed to do? Keep playing Cisse when he's blatantly bollox. In 2 years Benitez has turned this club around and that would have been impossible without being ruthless along the way. There is no room for sentiment if you want to be successful.

Getting 2 broken legs in 2 years is unfair, but that's not Benitez's doing. Given Cisse's history of moaning to the press, being unbelievably lazy on the pitch and not possessing much talent, I think Benitez has been as fair as he can be to him. Doesn't mean to say I don't feel slightly for Cisse the way things have worked out, but I certainly don't think Benitez should have done anything differently.

Good post but i don't agree he was up against it because the manager that signed him left.

Carragher, Hyypia, Gerrard, Kewell, Riise, Finnan, Hamann, etc etc.

Its about quality, he didn't possess enough. Simple as that.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 pm

Good Bob wrote:Good post but i don't agree he was up against it because the manager that signed him left.

Carragher, Hyypia, Gerrard, Kewell, Riise, Finnan, Hamann, etc etc.

Its about quality, he didn't possess enough. Simple as that.

The only reason I say that is because of something I read in 'A season on the brink' (you've probably read it yourself Stu). Benitez asked the board about the Cisse deal and they said that it was done and there was basically nothing they could do about it. Just reading between the lines I assume that Benitez asked the board was there any way out of the deal. He knew Cisse was not worth 14 million and was watching the majority of his transfer budget disappear in front of his eyes on a player he didn't rate. Although it wasn't Cisse's fault, Rafa must have been thinking 'fu.ck sake I don't want this guy for 14 million'. Therefore I think Cisse was slightly more up against it from the start than the players you've mentioned.

But of course I accept that Benitez's mind would have quickly changed if Cisse had done the business on the pitch. Of course he didn't and the rest is history. His lack of quality was the most important factor in him now being kicked out the door.

by **cptrios** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:37 pm

clik wrote:Maybe swap him plus cash for Ribery?

Yes yes yes. Cisse plus 5-6 mil or so would be well worth it.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:45 pm

john craig wrote:The only reason I say that is because of something I read in 'A season on the brink' (you've probably read it yourself Stu). Benitez asked the board about the Cisse deal and they said that it was done and there was basically nothing they could do about it. Just reading between the lines I assume that Benitez asked the board was there any way out of the deal. He knew Cisse was not worth 14 million and was watching the majority of his transfer budget disappear in front of his eyes on a player he didn't rate. Although it wasn't Cisse's fault, Rafa must have been thinking 'fu.ck sake I don't want this guy for 14 million'. Therefore I think Cisse was slightly more up against it from the start than the players you've mentioned.

But of course I accept that Benitez's mind would have quickly changed if Cisse had done the business on the pitch. Of course he didn't and the rest is history. His lack of quality was the most important factor in him now being kicked out the door.

Some of what your saying is true John I dont think Rafa minds them out the academy but you can tell he wants his own team, with his own ideas.

Most of the players are gone already what Houllier bought, I can see Aurelio becoming the No1 LB and Riise gradually getting ousted also Sammi and Finnan by next season.
Hamann, Baros, Vladi, Biscan already gone.

Rafa didn't actually choose any players in his 3 years at Valencia apart from Curro, Torres and Mista, the rest were choosen by the table legs and lamps fella.

Thats why Rafa wanted to leave, so if there was any interest in Cisse from Valencia it was more likely to be from the table legs and lamps fella than Rafa.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:34 pm

Ciggy wrote:Some of what your saying is true John I dont think Rafa minds them out the academy but you can tell he wants his own team, with his own ideas.

Most of the players are gone already what Houllier bought, I can see Aurelio becoming the No1 LB and Riise gradually getting ousted also Sammi and Finnan by next season.
Hamann, Baros, Vladi, Biscan already gone.

Yeah, I don't think there's any question that Aurelio will be the number 1 left back when he comes in. To be honest I've seen very little of the lad play, but having been Benitez's left back at Valencia and given that Riise is the one member of our back four who you would say there was certainly room for improvement on just now, I think he will come straight into the side.

Sami and Finnan out by next season? Remains to be seen. Hyypia is still a class act imo and Agger will need to have a hell of an impact in the games he gets next season to break up the Hyypia-Carra partnership. Hyypia will remain 1st choice for at least one more season I think, rather than at most 1 more season. Finnan's 30 but again, whoever Rafa brings in will have to earn the right back spot because Finnan certainly won't give it to them.

In the end every player is replaceable though. Look at what Wenger has done at Arsenal. He stuck by the reliable but ageing back 4 of Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn but gradually replaced them one by one when it needed to be done. If Benitez sticks by us for say the next 5 years then he will have to do the same. But I think our current back 4 is still good enough to win us the premiership in the short term if we make the right buys in the attacking positions this summer.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:49 pm

john craig wrote:Sami and Finnan out by next season? Remains to be seen. Hyypia is still a class act imo and Agger will need to have a hell of an impact in the games he gets next season to break up the Hyypia-Carra partnership. Hyypia will remain 1st choice for at least one more season I think, rather than at most 1 more season. Finnan's 30 but again, whoever Rafa brings in will have to earn the right back spot because Finnan certainly won't give it to them.

In the end every player is replaceable though. Look at what Wenger has done at Arsenal. He stuck by the reliable but ageing back 4 of Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn but gradually replaced them one by one when it needed to be done. If Benitez sticks by us for say the next 5 years then he will have to do the same. But I think our current back 4 is still good enough to win us the premiership in the short term if we make the right buys in the attacking positions this summer.

Dont get me wrong our back four where very impressive last season, how many clean sheets? I just think he wants his players his team and no one else's to be able to say look what Ive built.
Also what we lack from our defenders are goals, Chelsea, Man U and Arsenals defenders chip in with goals throughout the season.
Sammi chips in with the odd goal, If Warnock or Traore are playing in the LB position they never score Warnock got one last season his first goal.
Riise scores but more so when he is playing outwide.

I love Finnan he is an unsung hero but he doesnt give us goals and it would'nt suprise me if we see a new RB next season.
And how old will Sammi be by next season 34?

Ive never seen Aurelio play so I cant say anything about him TBH.

But we know that Rafa likes goals scored from every player on the pitch if possible and I think thats what he will be aiming at.

I could be wrong how ever and Rafa has totally had to change his tactics from what he is used to, now he has realised the prem is a lot different than the La Liga.
BTW I dont mean this season coming up before Stu goes off on one

by **kunilson** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:54 pm

i think Hyppia should be phased out more than anyone else in the back 4....even tho i think he has been brilliant, there have been some signs of him slipping to faster forwards especially, in the last couple of seasons. And with carra not being the quickest cat in the jungle i think that Hyppia should be the one who is replaced......along with Riise, but it depends on form and if the new players are succesful. you never know. Riise would make a brilliant back-up winger or LB, Hyppia i can see only getting worse but id like rafa to treat them both with respect for what they have accomplished with LFC.

good luck Cisse..

by **JC_81** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:59 pm

Ciggy wrote:BTW I dont mean this season coming up before Stu goes off on one

Don't worry I know what you meant :laugh:

We probably could do with a couple more goals from the defenders, but Riise and Sami do alright. Ideally I think rather than goals, Benitez would like defenders who are comfortable with the ball at their feet and pass the ball well, on top of being solid defensively obviously. As I see it, that's the major thing our defenders lack. When Sami, Finnan etc eventually need replacing, those are the types of players Benitez will try to bring in (Already Agger has been brought in who looks to have good composure on the ball and can pass well). Having said that he's done a hell of a job making a sound defensive unit out of what we already had on the books. Can't wait to see how things shape up next season :buttrock

by **Kopite-Jud** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:10 am

without cisse's contribution we would be f.a cup less and be missing a fair few points in the prem and prehaps be missing the champions league

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:53 am

Kopite-Jud wrote:without cisse's contribution we would be f.a cup less and be missing a fair few points in the prem and prehaps be missing the champions league

Don't be silly.

If a different striker had been playing, they could have had a hat-trick and we could have won 5-3.

Silly arguement, in all honesty.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:33 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Kopite-Jud wrote:without cisse's contribution we would be f.a cup less and be missing a fair few points in the prem and prehaps be missing the champions league

Don't be silly.

If a different striker had been playing, they could have had a hat-trick and we could have won 5-3.

Silly arguement, in all honesty.

Be fair Lando, Morientes hatrick?

Perhaps if Fowler hadn't been cup tied you would have a point. and we definately wouldnt have won Super Cup but for Cisse. I think hes pushing it a bit about Champs League place tho'.

by **Rafa D** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:41 am

I am sure many of you from around the Liverpool era and people who go the games will of heard the rumours about Cheyrou scouting tapes, Diao and Diouf deals etc.

Well there was one about Cisse about a season ago now. When Benitez got him on the training ground after his first few games for us, Cisse had kept being caught offside, so Rafa said,:

Rafa: "Dibjril you have got to angle your runs ,as this new league, the defense are very good at offside trap, for sure."

Cisse: "Whadda you mean monsieur? You want me to run on angles? I don't understand, I run really fast watch patron!!

(Cisse then runs to the changing rooms and back in 3.56 seconds)

Rafa: Dibby you are the fastest player I have ever seen, your shooting needs improving for sure, however you give me options for sure, but I need you to angle your runs, ok?

Cisse(looking really confused): I dont understand Senor Benitez, you want me to angle my runs?!!?!

Rafa: You never ever ever done this at Auxerre?

Cisse: No I run in straight lines , watch boss!!

(Cisse runs to changing rooms in 3.56 secs)

Rafa: Ok for sure (puzzled look on face),

(Rafa turns to Paco)

Rafa: Get Morientes on the fone this lad is poo de perro, for sure.

by **bedlovedays** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:02 am

Good Bob wrote:
bedlovedays wrote:How on earth do you rate crouch ahead of cisse. I keep asking but nobody seems to come up with concrete examples.

Crouch can pass a ball to a team mate.
Crouch can control a football.
Crouch doesn't go to ground or lose the ball every time he's challenged.
Crouch picks the right pass, to players in space an helps keep possession and control a game.

Cisse just runs fast. Simple.

The ONLY thing Crouch can do is pass the ball back to the midfielders. Give me a single instance when he created something positive going forward.

Can control a football? See above and I'm sorry you didnt watch the world cup or the last season at LFC

Crouch goes to ground EVERY time he gets the ball.

The ONLY pass Crouch picks is back to the midfielders. Again name one game where he did anything else.

Can you imagine in your wildest dreams Crouch being able to handle the wing?

Cisse grew into the postition. Cisse also scored more goals than crouch last year.

Cisse never got a run with the team.

Now I agree Cisse was not in Rafa's plans which makes life difficult for both of them.

Cisse is a tough cookie, you'll see him come good at another club. A striker is not going to score as he can when played out of position.

Liverpool FC Forum

Bye bye cisse

Who is online