Liverpool FC Forum

by **weringo** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:18 pm

Sissoko is class. When talking about a football player I don't define class as scoring loads of goals or making 40 yard runs, I define class as being very good at what you are there to do.

Ronaldinho is class becuase he has excellent skill, an excellent shot, excellent passing etc etc but that is what he is there to do. Now I'm not comparing Sissoko to Ronaldinho but Sissoko is there to be a ball winner and he does that exceedingly well.

Reina is a class keeper but how many times do you see him run the length of the pitch and score?

by **GOAT** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:53 pm

dawson99 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
banana wrote:Wonderful post man. The best post I have read in a long long time. And nice timing if I may say. Posted a couple of days before the Birmingham massacre.

And Stmichael - mind my words. He is already class. F@ck man. There's no friggin doubt about that. The thig is matey, Sissoko will never be af fancy as Alonso or score goals for fun from midfield like Ballack. But he is maybe number ONE on the world in his trade. Breaking down the opponent, winning duels and second balls, stealing the ball from midfielders, tackling their azzes off the pitch. If Sissoko was playing for LFC against Benfica I guarantee that we had been able to put more pressure on them and control midfield better. We would have been through.

And so to the Sissoko haters - like Stu. Time to shut up isn't it?

When did i ever say i hate Sissoko?

Get a grip. If you think a lad who's got average (on a premiership basis) passing, no shooting ability, very average heading ability, poor crossing ability, average technical ability, average influence, average positional play, average off the ball movement, average dribbling ability and average vision is "Class" then that show's the lack of knowledge you have as a football fan.

He's excellent at what he does and is a good part of the team but to call him "class" is complete and utter stupidity.

Gerrard is class.
Alonso is class.
Fowler is class.

Sissoko hasn't even scored one goal for us yet, how the is that "class".

Come back when you know what you're talking about dipshit.

Football is about more than scoring goals.
Rob jones never scored for us but would u trash his name as well?

When Crouch wasnt scoring you said there is a lot more to football than scoring goals, then u say this?

methinks u is on the windup mate

yeah i agree with these guys, since when the f.uck does a player have to score goals galore to be "class", its not about scoring bloody goals its about being brilliant at your role on the pitch. Yeah maybe sissoko shouldnt be regarded as a "class" player at least not just yet but since when do you rate a persons "class" on the goals they score

by **metalhead** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:08 pm

I think stu is making very good points of sissoko, it is true he needs to improve in his technical skills. His physical attributes makes him a very good player and his performance so far is class. he is 21!! so he has a big chance to become world class, i really believe like rafa that sissoko can become one the finest midfielders in the whole world in 4 years time

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:23 pm

dawson99 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
banana wrote:Wonderful post man. The best post I have read in a long long time. And nice timing if I may say. Posted a couple of days before the Birmingham massacre.

And Stmichael - mind my words. He is already class. F@ck man. There's no friggin doubt about that. The thig is matey, Sissoko will never be af fancy as Alonso or score goals for fun from midfield like Ballack. But he is maybe number ONE on the world in his trade. Breaking down the opponent, winning duels and second balls, stealing the ball from midfielders, tackling their azzes off the pitch. If Sissoko was playing for LFC against Benfica I guarantee that we had been able to put more pressure on them and control midfield better. We would have been through.

And so to the Sissoko haters - like Stu. Time to shut up isn't it?

When did i ever say i hate Sissoko?

Get a grip. If you think a lad who's got average (on a premiership basis) passing, no shooting ability, very average heading ability, poor crossing ability, average technical ability, average influence, average positional play, average off the ball movement, average dribbling ability and average vision is "Class" then that show's the lack of knowledge you have as a football fan.

He's excellent at what he does and is a good part of the team but to call him "class" is complete and utter stupidity.

Gerrard is class.
Alonso is class.
Fowler is class.

Sissoko hasn't even scored one goal for us yet, how the is that "class".

Come back when you know what you're talking about dipshit.

Football is about more than scoring goals.
Rob jones never scored for us but would u trash his name as well?

When Crouch wasnt scoring you said there is a lot more to football than scoring goals, then u say this?

methinks u is on the windup mate

I'm saying he's not "class" because he doesn't have the alround game to be class.

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:31 pm

Sissoko is a good player, he's got alot of excellent attributes and is very effective. He's not class though.

Massive difference in being "class" and being a good effective player that plays in a system that gets the best out of you. See Frank "overated" Lampard.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:39 pm

0asis wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Gerrard is class.
Alonso is class.
Fowler is class.

The guy who was mistakenly taken off in the Semi-Final of Champions League a few years back when we lost to Bayern Leverkusen (I think).

Quater final.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:41 pm

Momos not class yet but he will be one of the best centre midfielders in the world if he improves his passing consistency.

by **JC_81** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:00 pm

Sissoko isn't class yet, but he's certainly got the potential to be. I don't think he's going to end up in the same bracket as Vieira to be honest, although I hope he proves me wrong. What he could be, if he improves his tactical know-how and his passing, is basically a much more mobile version of our very own Kaiser. That would make him a class player imo and I think he is under the right guidance at this club to be that player.

Stu makes a good point about his goals though. I know he's primarily a midfield 'destroyer' rather than goalscoring midfielder, but the guy started out as a striker in France and you would have therefore have expected him to at least be off the mark by now.

I still rate the guy, in fact he's one of my favourite players for us at the moment, his aggression is one of the major reasons we've dominated the midfield in away games this season.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:35 pm

Two extremes here, it always is when Stu and Banana are having one of their little spats. Banana says Sissoko is the best thing since sliced bread. The best in the world at what he does and Stu seems to go out of his way to point out the lad's weaknesses and claims he will never be a class player (incidentally the word class is entirely open to interpretation.)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Sissoko is not at the level Banana claims him to be. He runs hot and cold, gets booked too often and needs to be more consistent in his passing. However to say that Sissoko will never be a class player is rash because the boy is so young, shows bags of potential and we have missed him big time these past few weeks. Pundits and fans alike often use the word 'class' or 'world class' to describe Makalele despite the fact he probably posesses a lot of the (quote Stu) 'average abilities' of our Sissoko e.g. crossing ability, vision, shooting ability, engine etc

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:23 am

Scottbot wrote:Two extremes here, it always is when Stu and Banana are having one of their little spats. Banana says Sissoko is the best thing since sliced bread. The best in the world at what he does and Stu seems to go out of his way to point out the lad's weaknesses and claims he will never be a class player (incidentally the word class is entirely open to interpretation.)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Sissoko is not at the level Banana claims him to be. He runs hot and cold, gets booked too often and needs to be more consistent in his passing. However to say that Sissoko will never be a class player is rash because the boy is so young, shows bags of potential and we have missed him big time these past few weeks. Pundits and fans alike often use the word 'class' or 'world class' to describe Makalele despite the fact he probably posesses a lot of the (quote Stu) 'average abilities' of our Sissoko e.g. crossing ability, vision, shooting ability, engine etc

Scott, I like Sissoko alot. He's a good player. But he's nowhere near the finished article and is nowhere near as good as Bananaless would have you believe.

I simply point out valid weaknesses. His ONLY world class attributes are his stamina, work rate, aggression and Natural fitness. He is an excellent tackler, reads the game fairly well, is quite strong (improving in this area).

Physically over all he is top class. He's as good as Gerrard in a physical aspect if not slightly better, he's very quick, has good agility and balance and acceleration. But look at his technique, control, passing short and long, vision, positioning, decision making, movement, crossing, shooting, dribbling, set peices, none of the above are even very good. Let alone class.

They are all ok more or less.

I've used the "footy manager" database before as a way of judging players and no matter what people say its the best way. You analyse individual strengths. Not players as a whole.

I said a few weeks ago Barton was technically IE "touch, passing and quality of pass" better than Gerrard, which he is. He's also tactically better "vision, positional play, decision making". However, certain pillocks take that as i'm saying he's a better alround player, which he clearly isn't.

Here's how i rate Gerrard, Barton, Sissoko, in that order:

Physical:
Acceleration: 16, 11, 16
Pace: 17, 11, 16
Agility: 16, 12, 17
Balance: 18, 11, 15
Stamina: 18, 15, 20
Strength: 17, 14, 16
Work Rate: 19, 18, 20

Mental:
Determination: 20, 15, 18
Aggression: 18, 19, 20
Bottle: 18, 18, 20
Leadership: 18, 14, 12
Creativety: 15, 16, 11
Postioning: 15, 17, 13
Decision making: 14, 17, 13
Anticipation: 16, 15, 15
Concentration: 14, 16, 16
Composure: 17, 17, 11
Movement: 17, 14, 12

Technical:
Shooting: 18, 16, 7
Crossing: 17, 16, 9
Dribbling: 15, 15, 12
Passing: 16, 17, 12
Heading: 14, 12, 13
Touch: 15, 15, 14
Technique: 15, 16, 12
Tackling: 19, 17, 18
Marking: 14, 15, 16
Finishing: 16, 14, 8

As you can see the main area is physical attributes. They contribute to certain things, i'll explain tomorrow but i'm accurate with each individual skill.

by **babu** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:37 am

Just a question Stu.
When you watch a game, any game, are you thinking about players in terms of their attributes as you have just described in your last post? I am only asking becuase, obviously its a well thought out system, but detailed. If it was me, I would have to watch each game twice, once for the enjoyment and again to rate the players in the detail which you have just gone into.

I can appreciate the thought you put in, but I'd much rather just watch and enjoy the game.
0-7 0-7 0-7 0-7 0-7 :buttrock

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:51 am

I've always been a Sissoko fan. I agree that he isn't the finished article but nor was Vieira at a similar age (queue new arguement with stu

).

I believe Rafa when he says that Sissoko could be great (Sissoko can be one of the greats). I think this sentance sums it up perfectly - "When we have Momo, Xabi and Gerrard available, we have the right balance of skill and energy, pace and power and they bring the best qualities out of each other.". So true.

I'm confident, barring injury, Sissoko will become one of the worlds greatest midfielders.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:43 am

At the moment Sissoko has the potential to become a carbon copy of Vieria if not better, but like my old dear says he is a nail biter of a player to watch. He is still raw talent and with help from the coaching staff they could mould his game, his technical skills need work on. But until he has primed in his footballing years and matured a bit more nobody really can say how Sissoko the player will turn out to be, world class or otherwise we'll have to wait and see.

by **AlanHansen** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:37 pm

If I had to make a choice I'd come down with stu, but if I was Rafa Sissoko would be one of the first names on my sheet, just as Savage would be if I was managing Blackburn, you need players like that who are prepared to run around and get stuck in in the premiership, and imo all teams need water-carriers as well as flair players.

He is only young as well and I think he will improve with time, I'm looking forward to seeing him at anfield in years to come.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:18 pm

babu wrote:Just a question Stu.
When you watch a game, any game, are you thinking about players in terms of their attributes as you have just described in your last post? I am only asking becuase, obviously its a well thought out system, but detailed. If it was me, I would have to watch each game twice, once for the enjoyment and again to rate the players in the detail which you have just gone into.

I can appreciate the thought you put in, but I'd much rather just watch and enjoy the game.
0-7 0-7 0-7 0-7 0-7

No, i don't "think about it". You can just see it. Its part of the game... when am sittin there watchin a game and i see someone play a great pass or take a good touch i know what i'm looking at and appriciate whats happening. Thats how i get enjoyment out of it. By understanding something in detail.

When you see players over a period of time and live its easy to spot things like positional play, vision, pace, passing ability, game intelligence and general quality.

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