Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:36 pm

I kind of agree with Stu when he says that sometimes a time comes for a manager to bite the bullet and blow all his transfer budget on one player.

Ferguson has done it a couple of times, with the likes of Rooney, Keane and Cantona, and these signings worked a treat.

However, Liverpool have had a bad record doing this over the years. We went out and spent big on Stan Collymore, a guy that was billed to have the ability to dominate the 1990s and be one of the final pieces of Roy Evans' jigsaw. Collymore certainly had the ability - he was an extraordinary talent, but he brought with him a lot of mental baggage and he couldn't cope with the pressure of being at a big club.

The same goes with El Hadji Diouff. Houllier gambled on him - a gamble that cost Gerard his job.

If the right player comes along, I say, go ahead, buy him, even if it means blowing the entire season's budget. However, the club really needs to be sure that its the right player. Ability in these cases is only 50% of the equation. The club and manager need to be assured that the guy will not treat the transfer and massive new contract as a licence to sit back and think he has made it (Phil Babb, Stan Collymore, El Hadji Diouff, Paul Stewart, Harry Kewell, Mark Kennedy et al). The player needs to be hungry and be mentally strong enough to cope with the hefty price tag, pressure and weight of expectation.

Incidentally, I think Jaoquin is a superb player, but I do have some doubts (perhaps unfounded) about his attitude. Also, I think it would take about £25million to prize him from Betis, so talking about buying him is probably a moot point.

by **A.B.** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:52 pm

1. We have enough in Whitebread, Traore and Josemi to cover us untill the end of the season. We don't need another centre half. We have 5 players who can play there already. Riise can also do a job there against the lesser sides.

Whitebread,Traore and Josemi are cover but are they as good as Carra? No they aren't, and that was my point in my last post. We need quality cover for our CB's.

2. Frank Lampard doesn't need a rest. When was the last time him or Terry missed a game? Carragher can and probably will play nearly every game this season.

If Carragher is fit then he will play but again you're not thinking outside the box. Is he going to play when he's injured or has a suspension? No he isn't.

3. So every team this season has played a long ball game? I'm sorry but Sami's a rock and to dismiss his massive ability level just because he lacks a bit of pace is absurd. The lads had a superb start to the season, Zak Whitebread can cover him in the cups. He can manage 45 games a season no problem.

Whenever the opposition starts playing flowing football around our box Hyypia becomes the weakest link. Example: Robben last night got passed him without any problems. He's good in the air, no doubt about that but like I said his weaknesses can be exposed by quality teams.

4. Again, you're watching a different Sami Hyypia. I'm on about the lad who plays for Liverpool at the back, the finish lad. Theres not alot wrong with his distribution, sometimes its a bit flat, but again what you don't see on TV is he hoofs it when he needs to. He doesn't mindlessly boot the ball forward unless he's under pressure. Again a benefit of going to a game. 9/10 he picks the right option. If he has a choice between a hoof and being tackled i know what i'd rather see.

I've seen Hyypia hoof the ball countless times when he was in open space without being under pressure. There's no need to hoof the ball. [I understand the hoofing the ball when he's under pressure by the opposition but not when there's nobody near him in the radius of 20-30 yards.]

5. To be honest A.B. i don't care for you're opinion on Warnock. I know a footballer when i see one and Warnock is. With the exception of experience Warnock has pretty much a bit of everything. I remember the slating Carragher used to get as a younger player, you sound like one of those. You are also one of those who went on about how Baros was the answer to our attack after the euro's and slated my statement tht i didn't see anything there he hadn't shown for Liverpool and he should be sold.

I really don't give a fuck whether you like my opinion on Warnock or not. Right now he isn't good enough but I'm not saying that he won't improve over the years, just at the moment I'm not happy and I don't think he will get the job done this year. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Del Horno while being a good player again isn't top class. Once Warnock learns when to tuck in and when to push out wide and doesn't dive into the odd silly tackle we'll have a complete left back on our hands. He's improving with every game, as is our backline.

In my opinion, Del Horno is class. Better than anything we have at the LB position at the moment. I've been impressed by him whenever he's played for Chelsea.

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:03 pm

I think you're both right on the centre halves, or both wrong whichever way you look at it. Hyppia isn't and never has been as good as Stu thinks he is IMHO. He is a good centre half though, still. He has been playing at the top of his game this season and never has been a player who relies on pace overly so will probably get exposed no more than he was previously by quick players. I really thought he was on his way out last season but fair play to him, he has come back strongly and proved me and a few others wrong.
All that said, none of our cover is good enough at this moment in time for a sustained period. Yes you might be able to stick Traore in here and there for a couple of games but he is not (yet) a centre half of any note. In the case of Whitbread I know some on here rate him but not me. I don't think he's likely to make the grade to be honest. As for Riise? Knowing Stu he's probably going to pull up some fact about him playing there for Monaco or for Norway under 19's but he doesn't look to me to be somebody who could play there. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
So as long as Carragher or Hyppia don't get suspended or injured we are OK. The chances though of them going the whole season as ever presents is almost zero. Buy a centre half in January and make it a good one if you can. If it's not foreign (and it probably will be) then Ledley King, he's your man.

by **neilE** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:13 pm

for those of you who are pining for the rumour thread - from today's Independent -
"Speculation in England and sapin is increasing that Liverpool will make a £16m bid for Betis winger Joaquin in January. The players agent was reportedly at Anfield last night"
If we could really get him for 16 mil, then we'd have enough for the defender that we do IMO, definitely need too. And maybe Betis would accept that bid if they are out of the CL by then, if there was any substance to what the player himself is supposed to have said about joining us before the Betis game.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:01 am

For christs sake strengthening the bench is not going to improve the fucking team.

Can't you see that you arguementative tit.

Is that so fucking difficult for you to grasp.

Ifs, buts and fucking maybes.

The problem is crystal fucking clear for all to see, we ARE NOT... i repeat because you are clearly to stupid to grasp this comment, ARE NOT SCORING ENOUGH GOALS.

What more can the defence do for christs sake? Mind you i supose its down to them hoofing the ball that stops us scoring isn't it.

Unbelievable.

Tell you what though, the best winger in world football has said he'd play for us, lets just let him go to Chelsea and get a second rate portuguese shithouse who is about 5 foot 8 and as strong as my baby cousin instead though because we need cover for our centre backs.

For christs sake some people. I'm sorry but for me, the logical thing to do is address problem one. Scoring goals and lacking attacking impetus. Answer... the worlds best winger.

Worry about the rest when it happens. With a midfield of Riise, Alonso, Gerrard and Joaquin i dont' give a toss if we had Kvarme and Babb at the back, we'd have that strong a midfield the other sides in the league wouldn't get near our defence anyway.

by **A.B.** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:03 am

You're a tit, grow up ffs. You couldn't debate without having a go at somebody if your life depended on it. I don't feel like repeating myself over and over again, if you don't understand then too fucking bad.

With a midfield of Riise, Alonso, Gerrard and Joaquin i dont' give a toss if we had Kvarme and Babb at the back, we'd have that strong a midfield the other sides in the league wouldn't get near our defence anyway.

Yes the likes of Chelsea,Arsenal and Man Utd are really scared of John Arne I can't drible past a decent defender Riise. Riise is not the solution for the left-wing. If we are going to sort out or problems on the right then we should do it on the left because Riise is not and never will be a winger.

by **sharkster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:29 am

Riise is a class left back but not a class left wingers true, but he's the best we have at the moment I think

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:03 am

neilE wrote:for those of you who are pining for the rumour thread - from today's Independent -
"Speculation in England and sapin is increasing that Liverpool will make a £16m bid for Betis winger Joaquin in January. The players agent was reportedly at Anfield last night"
If we could really get him for 16 mil, then we'd have enough for the defender that we do IMO, definitely need too. And maybe Betis would accept that bid if they are out of the CL by then, if there was any substance to what the player himself is supposed to have said about joining us before the Betis game.

That story is also in the mirror, i have been saying for a while that we cant afford him but that we all want him.
If we could get him for 16 million Rafa would of pulled of a masterstroke.
It is still unlikely but you never know, Real have already spent loads pre-season, the manc scum have Ronaldo and Chelsea have SWP Duff, Robben and Joe Cole, so if i was Joaquin i wouldnt even consider going there.

by **Dimshen** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:04 am

banana wrote:1 good central defender and 1 not so good.

which one is which?

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:42 pm

A.B. wrote:You're a tit, grow up ffs. You couldn't debate without having a go at somebody if your life depended on it. I don't feel like repeating myself over and over again, if you don't understand then too fucking bad.

With a midfield of Riise, Alonso, Gerrard and Joaquin i dont' give a toss if we had Kvarme and Babb at the back, we'd have that strong a midfield the other sides in the league wouldn't get near our defence anyway.

Yes the likes of Chelsea,Arsenal and Man Utd are really scared of John Arne I can't drible past a decent defender Riise. Riise is not the solution for the left-wing. If we are going to sort out or problems on the right then we should do it on the left because Riise is not and never will be a winger.

Thats rich coming from you. Desecting points and repeating you own pathetic ones with no valid or thought provoking reasoning.

He's not a winger you're right. But a very good left midfielder? Damn :censored:

right he is. Not that you would understand that. I mean, its not like he offers a goal threat, he can't run, doesn't cover ground and he also never covers his full back.

Also 8 goals last season, the fact he's scored against the Mancs and Chelsea in the past prove he's totally useless and has no strengths

While he's not the greatest player in the world my point is simple. If he's the worst player in your midfield and you have THREE OTHER WORLD CLASS PLAYERS then you have a fucking strong midfield. And yes, that midfield would be better than anything in Europe.

GERRARD, ALONSO and JOAQUIN WOULD WALK BLIND FOLDED INTO ANY SIDE IN THE WORLD. Don't you understand that? Is that to hard for you to grasp? Are you to stupid to see that Riise is a damn good player and absoloutely 1,000,000 times better than our current right winger... NOBODY. Is that impossible for you to see?

The priorities are simple:

1. A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! UNDERSTAND THAT D!PSH!T?

2. A centre half JUST INCASE <<< THAT THERE, JUST INCASE... Sami or Carragher gets injured. In my opinion i'd rather we signed someone BETTER THAN THEM BOTH so we improve the TEAM rather than the SQUAD That would cost 10 million or so. I'd be perfectly happy to wait untill the summer for that aquisition.

3. A Left winger who has class and is better than Riise.

Does that make sense? Probably not. You don't understand the game so i wouldnt' expect you to understand that its more important to have a good team as apose to a good squad.

Kids these days! :no

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:49 pm

Stu, you have to laugh.

Excellent debate lads, just what we need around here, but no need to get personal.

Let the weight of your arguement land blows on your opponent, not your forked tongue.

by **stmichael** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:57 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Carragher isn't in Gallas' class mate.

Thats the truth of the matter. Carragher is now overated by Liverpool fans. For years he's been disgracefully underated and now he's rediculously overated.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone though, he'd run through a brick wall for us and thats what makes him so important, sometimes its more important to be determined and local rather than world class and foreign. You've seen it for England, nothing more than a good player. He's no better than the likes of Neville or Finnan or someone like that.

i was saying this to my mate the other day actually.

he was saying how we should make a move for gallas as he apparently wants to be on the same wages as terry and lampard at chelsea. that would constitute nearly a 200% pay rise on his current deal.

i said to him that there is no way on god's green earth that chelsea would ever let gallas go, especially to another premiership club. imo he's even better than terry. i love carra to death but as a footballer, gallas is in a different league. to be honest, carra's distribution has improved somewhat over the last 18 months but he's still not what i'd call a "natural athlete". he looks awkward at times but as an out and out defender he's outstanding.

just imagine the two of them together though.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:58 pm

Fuck off.

The arrogant know nothing needs to be told.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:02 pm

stmichael wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Carragher isn't in Gallas' class mate.

Thats the truth of the matter. Carragher is now overated by Liverpool fans. For years he's been disgracefully underated and now he's rediculously overated.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone though, he'd run through a brick wall for us and thats what makes him so important, sometimes its more important to be determined and local rather than world class and foreign. You've seen it for England, nothing more than a good player. He's no better than the likes of Neville or Finnan or someone like that.

i was saying this to my mate the other day actually.

he was saying how we should make a move for gallas as he apparently wants to be on the same wages as terry and lampard at chelsea. that would constitute nearly a 200% pay rise on his current deal.

i said to him that there is no way on god's green earth that chelsea would ever let gallas go, especially to another premiership club. imo he's even better than terry. i love carra to death but as a footballer, gallas is in a different league. to be honest, carra's distribution has improved somewhat over the last 18 months but he's still not what i'd call a "natural athlete". he looks awkward at times but as an out and out defender he's outstanding.

just imagine the two of them together though.

Yeah I imagine the two of them together and see an ariel bombardment, a lack of influence, two defenders under 6'1, trouble from corners, no goals scored from set peices and two sweepers as apose to a commanding centre half and a sweeper.

The two of them together wouldn't be a good partnership in my opinion. However, i wouldn't complain if we did sign him.

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:40 pm

I think Terry is the best in the business in England.

He's strong, athletic, excellent in the air, has good distribution and technique, but most of all, he is a winner and a leader. There are plenty of players out there with more athleticism, pace and skill than Terry, but there are few players around with the same winning mentality as John Terry.

I think William Gallas is an excellent player, but I'd have John Terry and, for that matter, Jamie Carragher, any day of the week ahead of the likes of Gallas. Football isn't all about skill and ability, mental appitude and attitude are also hugely important traits.

I'd like Gallas at Liverpool but for all of Hyppia's faults (in truth there are very few, other than a chronic lack of pace and occasionally, below par distribution), Sammi is an absolute giant in the air, and he'll win every long punt up field, regardless of the opponent, even hugely powerful forwards like Didier Drogba. I have never been Hyppia's greatest fan, but I acknowledge his strengths. My current problem with Hyppia is that in 80-85% of matches he is peerless, but its the 15-20% matches where opponents prey on his weaknesses that gives me concern.

Hyppia's eventual replacement must be very strong in the air, and William Gallas is only average in the air.

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