Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC #1]

Ace Ventura ,I think you are spot on unfortunately. I think a guy like Simao would be a great signing anyway, but if he didn't make it it would be a big mistake made - much like Stu has said with the Duff and Anelka scenario, we needed to sign those two players when we had the chance. GH failed to do so and it was major reason why he lost his job.

I'm not saying that not signing Joaqun will cost Rafa his job, far from it, he may end up regretting it if he doesn't though.

[whylongball?]

well i have to agree with Stu here...if u want to be the best u have to have that little extra edge and surely Joaquin can provide that edge, at a cost though.

[Ace Ventura]

well i have to agree with Stu here...if u want to be the best u have to have that little extra edge and surely Joaquin can provide that edge, at a cost though.

Do we have the funds to compete with the best (or the biggest) though ?
I am sure Rafa if he had a bottomless pit would sign Joaquin tomorrow...well january.
But he doesnt and although its frustrating LFC dont have the money to compete imo with the biggest clubs...even sorry to say it Newcastle.
Any player we have wanted and made known the prices have gone through the roof.
Now i dont think in alot of cases we can afford the players...and on the other hand i dont think Rafa is happy paying more than he feels the player is worth.

[115-1073096938]

He is currently worth every penny and yes i believe we can spend upto about 30 million on players and i believe we could get him for around the 18-22 million mark. Thats ALOT of money...

But as i said, if you want to be the best, sometimes you have to take a massive risk on the most expensive players. Numbers aren't important, quality is. Houllier found that out the hard way.

Duff and Anelka were there for the taking as is Joaquin, Houllier wouldn't pay the 25million which would DEFINATELY have improved the side. Rafa has to.

The difference between a good and a great manager is knowing when to take a risk and on who. This is the one worth taking imo. If we miss out and he goes to Chelsea we'll struggle to compete.

We need to be able to match them or better them in certain positions. The only two players we have who would get in there team are Gerrard and Alonso, hence the reason we need Joaquin.

[LFC #1]

We need to be able to match them or better them in certain positions. The only two players we have who would get in there team are Gerrard and Alonso, hence the reason we need Joaquin.

I'd say Carra would as well. Terry and Carra.

[115-1073096938]

Carragher isn't in Gallas' class mate.

Thats the truth of the matter. Carragher is now overated by Liverpool fans. For years he's been disgracefully underated and now he's rediculously overated.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone though, he'd run through a brick wall for us and thats what makes him so important, sometimes its more important to be determined and local rather than world class and foreign. You've seen it for England, nothing more than a good player. He's no better than the likes of Neville or Finnan or someone like that.

[A.B.]

If we miss out and he goes to Chelsea we'll struggle to compete.

So you think that by signing Joaquin, all of our problems will be solved and we will be able to stoop to Chelsea's level, toe to toe. Week in and week out? I'm sorry but you've lost your mind if you think thats the case.

Joaquin would definetly improve us in terms of the quality on the right wing and attacking overall but it wouldn't solve the problems we have in other areas. Whilst Carragher and Hyypia aren't a bad partnership we need more depth than that, they won't play in every game this season. Therefore we need a class CB who will give competition to the Hyypia and Carragher, and class CB who will be able to step up when one of our CB's aren't playing.

Then there's the left-back position. We have Traore,Warnock and Riise in that position but compare them to Del Horno and Bridge. Del Horno alone is better than Traore,Warnock and Riise combined imo and if we are going to compete with Chelsea  then we need a better left-back.

[LFC #1]

Carragher isn't in Gallas' class mate.

Thats the truth of the matter. Carragher is now overated by Liverpool fans. For years he's been disgracefully underated and now he's rediculously overated.

It's probably a fair point, but I woudln't swap him for anyone as you said, not Rio, not Nesta, not Maldini, nobody!

What I'm saying is, for us, he is as good as any centre-half in the world because of the sheer effort he puts in week in week out.

I don't think he's ridiculosusly over-rated either, by Liverpool fans sure he is a bit, but he performs consistently well for us week in week out, and you coudln't ask for any more than that.

[115-1073096938]

So you think that by signing Joaquin, all of our problems will be solved and we will be able to stoop to Chelsea's level, toe to toe. Week in and week out? I'm sorry but you've lost your mind if you think thats the case.

Joaquin would definetly improve us in terms of the quality on the right wing and attacking overall but it wouldn't solve the problems we have in other areas. Whilst Carragher and Hyypia aren't a bad partnership we need more depth than that, they won't play in every game this season. Therefore we need a class CB who will give competition to the Hyypia and Carragher, and class CB who will be able to step up when one of our CB's aren't playing.

Then there's the left-back position. We have Traore,Warnock and Riise in that position but compare them to Del Horno and Bridge. Del Horno alone is better than Traore,Warnock and Riise combined imo and if we are going to compete with Chelsea  then we need a better left-back.

I never for one second said ALL of our shortcomings would be solved. However i did say the main one would be. IE, scoring goals. He'd give us so many more options going forward.

Smaller teams struggle to compete against sides with very strong midfields. Hence the reason Manchester United won there cup treble. If we had Joaquin we'd have have three potentially world class midfielders what would walk blindfolded into any side in world football.

I agree with what you are saying about a centre half, but its not a priority and is something that can wait. We have two quality centre backs. I'm not one who believes in changing a defence in anyway. The defence was solid until Josemi came in for Finnan the day. I know Josemi wasn't "to blame" for the goals but its no  coincidence that as soon as that defence changes you conceed a goal.

As for the left back don't talk rubbish. Warnock has alot of ability. Having never been to a game though i don't expect you to understand the quality and intelligence of his distribution, technical ability and physicaly aggressiveness and bottle. Aswell as his potential leadership qualities. He has the ability to become one of the leagues most solid full backs. He will certainly become better defensively than Ashley Cole once he learns when to tuck in and when to be out wide and offers something going forward aswell.

Warnock has the same ability level if not greater than Carragher. He can become just as important as Carragher to our first 11.

As for Del Horno, he cost a bomb. Why would we spend stupid money on a position which is clearly not a priority and one we have sorted for the next 8 years at least.

A.B. I know you're opinionated mate, but opinions are like arsewholes everyones got one. And an "opinion" can't be wrong. In football you can.

[A.B.]

I never for one second said ALL of our shortcomings would be solved. However i did say the main one would be. IE, scoring goals. He'd give us so many more options going forward.

By breaking the bank on one player[i.e. Joaquin] then that would prevent us from sorting out our "shortcommings" in other areas.

I agree with what you are saying about a centre half, but its not a priority and is something that can wait. We have two quality centre backs. I'm not one who believes in changing a defence in anyway. The defence was solid until Josemi came in for Finnan the day. I know Josemi wasn't "to blame" for the goals but its no  coincidence that as soon as that defence changes you conceed a goal.

Jamie Carragher is consistant but he needs cover because after all he is only human and he isn't going to last all season. And by cover I don't mean just any player, I mean a good CB.

Secondly, Sami Hyypia has a good game when the opposition plays long balls into the box. He's a master as far as heading the ball away goes however as soon as the opposition starts playing on the ground he easily becomes a weak link.

As for the left back don't talk rubbish. Warnock has alot of ability. Having never been to a game though i don't expect you to understand the quality and intelligence of his distribution, technical ability and physicaly aggressiveness and bottle

Have I ever been to a Liverpool game? No  I haven't, have I been to a football game? Yes I have and I understand the distribution of the ball and technical ability in a game of football. [Distribution of the ball is something Hyypia can improve on, hoofing the ball isn't always the answer]

I personally have not been impressed by Warnock as of late. Does that mean that he may not improve in the future? No but  I don't have any confidence in him playing as a LB right now.

As for Del Horno, he cost a bomb. Why would we spend stupid money on a position which is clearly not a priority and one we have sorted for the next 8 years at least

He didn't cost very much, [6-8 million pounds] is nothing for a player of his calibre. Of course if we placed a bid Chelsea could outbidded us and the price would had been hijacked but I'm just giving an example.

[The Canadian Red Army]

we'll be settling for second best which isn't good enough, especially Joaquin has publicaly stated he's interested.

A Fair point Stu.

Simao is going to cost circa 10-12 million anyway, and is a tad older than Joaquin. For me it's worth putting an extra 8-10 million in to try and get Joaquin.

you would be willing to put out that kind of money(most of the kitty) for him LFC???

[LFC #1]

Yes. 16-20 million would be good business IMO, but I think Betis will try and get more than that for him though so we'll see. We need a quality wide player!

[115-1073096938]

I never for one second said ALL of our shortcomings would be solved. However i did say the main one would be. IE, scoring goals. He'd give us so many more options going forward.

1. By breaking the bank on one player[i.e. Joaquin] then that would prevent us from sorting out our "shortcommings" in other areas.

I agree with what you are saying about a centre half, but its not a priority and is something that can wait. We have two quality centre backs. I'm not one who believes in changing a defence in anyway. The defence was solid until Josemi came in for Finnan the day. I know Josemi wasn't "to blame" for the goals but its no  coincidence that as soon as that defence changes you conceed a goal.

2.Jamie Carragher is consistant but he needs cover because after all he is only human and he isn't going to last all season. And by cover I don't mean just any player, I mean a good CB.

3. Secondly, Sami Hyypia has a good game when the opposition plays long balls into the box. He's a master as far as heading the ball away goes however as soon as the opposition starts playing on the ground he easily becomes a weak link.

As for the left back don't talk rubbish. Warnock has alot of ability. Having never been to a game though i don't expect you to understand the quality and intelligence of his distribution, technical ability and physicaly aggressiveness and bottle

4. Have I ever been to a Liverpool game? No  I haven't, have I been to a football game? Yes I have and I understand the distribution of the ball and technical ability in a game of football. [Distribution of the ball is something Hyypia can improve on, hoofing the ball isn't always the answer]

I personally have not been impressed by Warnock as of late. Does that mean that he may not improve in the future? No but  I don't have any confidence in him playing as a LB right now.

As for Del Horno, he cost a bomb. Why would we spend stupid money on a position which is clearly not a priority and one we have sorted for the next 8 years at least

He didn't cost very much, [6-8 million pounds] is nothing for a player of his calibre. Of course if we placed a bid Chelsea could outbidded us and the price would had been hijacked but I'm just giving an example.

1. We have enough in Whitebread, Traore and Josemi to cover us untill the end of the season. We don't need another centre half. We have 5 players who can play there already. Riise can also do a job there against the lesser sides.

2. Frank Lampard doesn't need a rest. When was the last time him or Terry missed a game? Carragher can and probably will play nearly every game this season.

3. So every team this season has played a long ball game? I'm sorry but Sami's a rock and to dismiss his massive ability level just because he lacks a bit of pace is absurd. The lads had a superb start to the season, Zak Whitebread can cover him in the cups. He can manage 45 games a season no problem.

4. Again, you're watching a different Sami Hyypia. I'm on about the lad who plays for Liverpool at the back, the finish lad. Theres not alot wrong with his distribution, sometimes its a bit flat, but again what you don't see on TV is he hoofs it when he needs to. He doesn't mindlessly boot the ball forward unless he's under pressure. Again a benefit of going to a game. 9/10 he picks the right option. If he has a choice between a hoof and being tackled i know what i'd rather see.

5. To be honest A.B. i don't care for you're opinion on Warnock. I know a footballer when i see one and Warnock is. With the exception of experience Warnock has pretty much a bit of everything. I remember the slating Carragher used to get as a younger player, you sound like one of those. You are also one of those who went on about how Baros was the answer to our attack after the euro's and slated my statement tht i didn't see anything there he hadn't shown for Liverpool and he should be sold.

6. Del Horno while being a good player again isn't top class. Once Warnock learns when to tuck in and when to push out wide and doesn't dive into the odd silly tackle we'll have a complete left back on our hands. He's improving with every game, as is our backline.

Another clean sheet without a goal last night.

What more evidence do you need?

A.B. Stop arguing for the sake of it.

[Lando_Griffin]

Carragher isn't in Gallas' class mate.

Thats the truth of the matter. Carragher is now overated by Liverpool fans. For years he's been disgracefully underated and now he's rediculously overated.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone though, he'd run through a brick wall for us and thats what makes him so important, sometimes its more important to be determined and local rather than world class and foreign. You've seen it for England, nothing more than a good player. He's no better than the likes of Neville or Finnan or someone like that.

Rubbish. He may lack the technical ability of Gallas, but the determination makes up for it. He's unspectacular - something a CB should be.

[115-1073096938]

Look i don't disagree that his heart makes up for his lack of footballing ability. Read the posts above.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone. He's what the clubs about, but he's still not as good a player as the likes of Gallas.