Liverpool FC Forum

by **supersub** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:43 pm

Lionheart wrote:I'd have him back too...as the 'super sub'

But that ain't gunna happen is it??

Well he's not coming back to replace me...no chance

by **Adebisi** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:46 pm

Offer them £6m and Nunez for Owen!

Might as well throw Figo into the deal!

I'd be happy to see Owen back, I dont really hold a major grudge, I'd like to take a year working in Madrid too!

by **Roger Red Hat** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:52 pm

Maximus - you talk sense mate.

by **Lionheart** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:07 pm

supersub wrote:
Lionheart wrote:I'd have him back too...as the 'super sub'

But that ain't gunna happen is it??

Well he's not coming back to replace me...no chance

From what I understand that's not going to be possible mate :bowdown

by **7_Kewell** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:09 pm

how the tables have turned!

Owen has now realised the implications of his 'dream move' and knows he has put his England place under threat. Although Houllier would't hessitate in bringing him back, i don't think Rafa is too keen. Owen screwed us big time and i'm sure Rafa remembers this all too vividly. Why should he disrupt his plans, just because owens 'dream' of winning the European cup and establishing himself at Real has back fired?

Personally i would take him back, but i have a feeling Real (still pi$$ed off over not getting Gerrard) would do their best to screw us over the fee. Look at how awkward they are being over Figo!

I would like it to happen, but can't see Rafa paying 10+ million to bring back a man who turned his back on us 11 months ago.

also can't help wonder if Owen wishes he had given Anfield 1 more season...I bet he does. :eyebrow

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:10 pm

Posted: July 15 2005,13:56

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (maximus @ July 15 2005,13:32)
Quote (LFC #1 @ July 15 2005,13:29)
Quote (banana @ July 15 2005,13:21)
To LFC#1
Don't be stupid. Owen doesn't fit in his system and into his football philosophy. Pure and simple.

That may be so (debatable), but you still fail to answer my question on why you dislike the lad so much.

You once called him "mediocre", which shows a distinct lack of knowledge on the player, plain and simple.

I get the feeling you have some personal hatred of him because of his 'controversial' transfer to Real Madrid, or perhaps you have no idea what you are talking about?

I can just see Banana sitting there watching the 2001 cup final, professing that the midget is mediocre!!

Fickle fans

Go drink a glass of milk lad

Talking about 2001 will get you nowhere
Rafa is thinking about 2006-2010
Owen is not in his plans. Owen is out of favour in Madrid and desperate to get some football before the world cup finals. We should not let him use LFC just to get fit for the world cup. LFC is not Owen's playground.

AND
Nothing is permanent in football. How many good seasons did Maradona have after 1988? Ok, drugs did him. So what? Owen is injury prone and has a big ego. And most importantly; Owen is not suited to play it Rafa style. Rafa is building a TEAM. He is not after 11 individuals. Apart form hanging around and putting a few goals, Owen doesn't bring much to the table. i care about the WHOLE game. I do not care about how many goals a single player scores or what car he drives. Owen doesn't take part in the build up play, he is not working hard for his team mates, and he has not the skills required to be first striker at LFC. Accept it.

Go and drink a glass of milk scott... whats that gotta do with anythin? :laugh:

Owen has injury problems and yes he will be missing for 2 months every season. Whats your point? He still manages MORE than double the amount of goals Baros scored. In fact, i bet if we got him fit for one season, he'd treble what Baros scores.

As for not being suited to Rafa's style... you're surely having a laugh? Under Houllier Owen had to do it all alone with no support from midfield and only Murphy and Gerrard capable of playing the balls he needs to do most damage, no he'd have Zenden, Gerrard, Alonso, Luis Garcia and Morientes in there, all with a brain and all clever players who play the sort of football Owen has always played. Which is on the floor, fast and intelligent football.

Owen hangs around and puts a few goals in? Well i've got news for you lad. Goals win you games. Now i'm not bein funny, but the reason our away record under Houllier was so good is because of Owen. He scored away from home at any ground and where we'd lose 1-0 away, we might have drew 1-1, or won 2-1, or where we'd draw 0-0 we'd win 1-0. How many games has Baros WON for us this season with his goals or how many games has he saved us from defeat? Millwall and Palace? i can't think of any more off the top of my head.

As for Owen not being hard working, you're simply talking out of your :censored:

. The lad doesn't charge round like Baros like a headless chicken. He simply looks at the defenders, splits them up, makes them play into a certain area and doesn't let them pick him off as easily as Baros does, he holds his position which is the more sensible and knowledgable thing to do. Anyone who thinks he's lazy, has simply never watched him play. Its as simple as that.

You say he doesn't bring much else to the team except goals. Well, again, i encourage you to actually watch him play live. He's a goal threat every second he's on the pitch and keeps two defenders occuppied at nearly all times. He also does't conceed possession as stupidly and needlessly as Baros and he also releases the ball quicker than Baros and normally to a player in space aswell. Again if you'd watched him play, he recieves the ball, he plays a pass and the fans clap... the fans don't clap because its Owen, they clap because its a good pass to a player with alot of space. This is why fans are very annoyed with Baros, he just fails to do this EVERY time he gets the ball.

When you're a striker and you're 35 yards away from goal and the ball comes into you with your back to goal you look for a pass to a player in space or on the move who's going to help you get closer to the goal, you then make your move once you've released the ball to that player in space who in turn again has to do something positive, this keeps the momentum going. With the fabulous headless chicken Baros, this momentum breaks down ALL the time. The things is this side now has the ability to get the very best out of Owen. We have more players on his wave length in a similar class. 4 years ago, we didn't.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:13 pm

Agree totally Banana

Owen is a good player unquestionably, but IMO is overrated and offers little to the team in way of linking and building up play and holding the ball up. This does not suit the way Rafa is moulding our style of play. Then theres the issue of the way he left us last summer which was a disgrace.

Rafa won't take him back and thats fine by me

I actually started to respect you're posts recently, you've spoke some sense, but this is :censored:

mate.

I'm sorry, but you watch Owen, he knows when to hold it up, when to go on his own, he plays good early passes to players in space and doesn't conceed possession. We've now got the players who can take advantage of recieving the ball early in space, in the past we haven't had.

Baros has NONE of those qualities which i've just listed. He's extremely poor at all of them. Thats the main difference in himself and Owen. Also, Baros' finishing? Hardly top class is it?

The difference would be unreal.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:16 pm

laza wrote:I think you miss the point there John
IMHO whatever your opinion of Michael Owen talents now and whether you like to see him back at club is nots what its about
Making derogatory comments about a former player no matter how he left who provided such good service and help bring trophies to the club during a very long barren stretch is out of order
Its not something that you should expect from the best fans in the world

Well that is a very dignified stance you have there laza, i wish i was as level headed as you sometimes, but to be honest, Owen's playing ability aside, I wouldn't want him back at the club because of the way he left, and i admit i am still bitter about it. I don't see the point in coming on here and calling Owen names but I can see where Banana is coming from sometimes.

Owen screwed us, plain and simple. He said he'd stay and he left, simple as that. Even worse, he left right before transfer deadline so there was no time to get in a replacement and he let his contract run down so he went for half the money he was worth.

And this next bit isn't necessarily directed at you Laza, but, in response to maximus:

Owen offers goals?? Yeah he did, until injuries took their toll and he is now not the player he was. Not able to rely on his pace anymore and IMO is now exposed as not being 'world class'. Zidane, Henry, Nedved and Shevchenko are 'world class'. Owen is a good player, but seeing as he's english that seems to make people think he's world class. Can you remember Owen's last 2 seasons with us?? Goals? Yeah he may have scored 20 a season, but look at the spread of the goals. 5 in 3 games then about 5 games without scoring. He played it fits and bursts, no consistency if you really look at it. And you're ready to rule out morientes and cisse's ability to score 20 a season already? without even giving either a full season to prove themselves? Something wrong there mate, show a bit of patience

Maximus, you're sick of Owen being slagged off on these forums?? Disgraceful you say? Wake up and smell the coffee mate, solid service?? I'm sick of hearing what owen did for the club. In the bigger picture you have to look at what the club did for owen. Took him on as a kid, developed his talents, gave him a chance in the first team, made him an international superstar. Fu.ck owen, without LFC he would be nothing and he took us for mugs. He even took less money at madrid than what we offered, what a slap in the face. And you want him back? Don't know about you but I value loyalty highly in people, and Owen showed none.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:18 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Agree totally Banana

Owen is a good player unquestionably, but IMO is overrated and offers little to the team in way of linking and building up play and holding the ball up. This does not suit the way Rafa is moulding our style of play. Then theres the issue of the way he left us last summer which was a disgrace.

Rafa won't take him back and thats fine by me

I actually started to respect you're posts recently, you've spoke some sense, but this is mate.

I'm sorry, but you watch Owen, he knows when to hold it up, when to go on his own, he plays good early passes to players in space and doesn't conceed possession. We've now got the players who can take advantage of recieving the ball early in space, in the past we haven't had.

Baros has NONE of those qualities which i've just listed. He's extremely poor at all of them. Thats the main difference in himself and Owen. Also, Baros' finishing? Hardly top class is it?

The difference would be unreal.

Look stu, I agree with a lot you say also, but theres no way we're ever going to agree on this one. As far as I'm concerned Owen can't hold the ball up for sh.it

And by the way I didn't even mention baros, where'd that come from?

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:21 pm

Owen offers goals?? Yeah he did, until injuries took their toll and he is now not the player he was

John, he had a woeful season last year, stuggled with form, injury and had his head elsewhere, yet managed 16 league goals, 19 overall. Baros got 8 in the league was it... 9?

Again nearly double and he managed 13 overall, 5 of which came against Palace and Millwall.

Think about it mate, the difference in class of Owen and Baros is there for all to see.

Infact, Owen last season nearly had as many as Morientes, Cisse and Baros did this year put together.

by **kaz the kopite** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:23 pm

the grass is not greener in madrid!!! :eyebrow

ha! ha! you numpty!! :buttrock

by **LFC #1** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:23 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Posted: July 15 2005,13:56

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (maximus @ July 15 2005,13:32)
Quote (LFC #1 @ July 15 2005,13:29)
Quote (banana @ July 15 2005,13:21)
To LFC#1
Don't be stupid. Owen doesn't fit in his system and into his football philosophy. Pure and simple.

That may be so (debatable), but you still fail to answer my question on why you dislike the lad so much.

You once called him "mediocre", which shows a distinct lack of knowledge on the player, plain and simple.

I get the feeling you have some personal hatred of him because of his 'controversial' transfer to Real Madrid, or perhaps you have no idea what you are talking about?

I can just see Banana sitting there watching the 2001 cup final, professing that the midget is mediocre!!

Fickle fans

Go drink a glass of milk lad

Talking about 2001 will get you nowhere
Rafa is thinking about 2006-2010
Owen is not in his plans. Owen is out of favour in Madrid and desperate to get some football before the world cup finals. We should not let him use LFC just to get fit for the world cup. LFC is not Owen's playground.

AND
Nothing is permanent in football. How many good seasons did Maradona have after 1988? Ok, drugs did him. So what? Owen is injury prone and has a big ego. And most importantly; Owen is not suited to play it Rafa style. Rafa is building a TEAM. He is not after 11 individuals. Apart form hanging around and putting a few goals, Owen doesn't bring much to the table. i care about the WHOLE game. I do not care about how many goals a single player scores or what car he drives. Owen doesn't take part in the build up play, he is not working hard for his team mates, and he has not the skills required to be first striker at LFC. Accept it.

Go and drink a glass of milk scott... whats that gotta do with anythin?

Owen has injury problems and yes he will be missing for 2 months every season. Whats your point? He still manages MORE than double the amount of goals Baros scored. In fact, i bet if we got him fit for one season, he'd treble what Baros scores.

As for not being suited to Rafa's style... you're surely having a laugh? Under Houllier Owen had to do it all alone with no support from midfield and only Murphy and Gerrard capable of playing the balls he needs to do most damage, no he'd have Zenden, Gerrard, Alonso, Luis Garcia and Morientes in there, all with a brain and all clever players who play the sort of football Owen has always played. Which is on the floor, fast and intelligent football.

Owen hangs around and puts a few goals in? Well i've got news for you lad. Goals win you games. Now i'm not bein funny, but the reason our away record under Houllier was so good is because of Owen. He scored away from home at any ground and where we'd lose 1-0 away, we might have drew 1-1, or won 2-1, or where we'd draw 0-0 we'd win 1-0. How many games has Baros WON for us this season with his goals or how many games has he saved us from defeat? Millwall and Palace? i can't think of any more off the top of my head.

As for Owen not being hard working, you're simply talking out of your . The lad doesn't charge round like Baros like a headless chicken. He simply looks at the defenders, splits them up, makes them play into a certain area and doesn't let them pick him off as easily as Baros does, he holds his position which is the more sensible and knowledgable thing to do. Anyone who thinks he's lazy, has simply never watched him play. Its as simple as that.

You say he doesn't bring much else to the team except goals. Well, again, i encourage you to actually watch him play live. He's a goal threat every second he's on the pitch and keeps two defenders occuppied at nearly all times. He also does't conceed possession as stupidly and needlessly as Baros and he also releases the ball quicker than Baros and normally to a player in space aswell. Again if you'd watched him play, he recieves the ball, he plays a pass and the fans clap... the fans don't clap because its Owen, they clap because its a good pass to a player with alot of space. This is why fans are very annoyed with Baros, he just fails to do this EVERY time he gets the ball.

When you're a striker and you're 35 yards away from goal and the ball comes into you with your back to goal you look for a pass to a player in space or on the move who's going to help you get closer to the goal, you then make your move once you've released the ball to that player in space who in turn again has to do something positive, this keeps the momentum going. With the fabulous headless chicken Baros, this momentum breaks down ALL the time. The things is this side now has the ability to get the very best out of Owen. We have more players on his wave length in a similar class. 4 years ago, we didn't.

Well said Stu. The Echo has reported today that Owen could be on his way back. Read into that what you will, but I woudl ove to see him back at the club for the reasons you have mentioned above. He is a top quality goalscorer, and has proven himself at every level while still being quite young.

Not sure if Rafa wants him back, but if Owen did do what Ian Rush did (slighlty different circumstancs I know but you get the point), then I for one would be very pleased.

by **banana** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:36 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Posted: July 15 2005,13:56

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (maximus @ July 15 2005,13:32)
Quote (LFC #1 @ July 15 2005,13:29)
Quote (banana @ July 15 2005,13:21)
To LFC#1
Don't be stupid. Owen doesn't fit in his system and into his football philosophy. Pure and simple.

That may be so (debatable), but you still fail to answer my question on why you dislike the lad so much.

You once called him "mediocre", which shows a distinct lack of knowledge on the player, plain and simple.

I get the feeling you have some personal hatred of him because of his 'controversial' transfer to Real Madrid, or perhaps you have no idea what you are talking about?

I can just see Banana sitting there watching the 2001 cup final, professing that the midget is mediocre!!

Fickle fans

Go drink a glass of milk lad

Talking about 2001 will get you nowhere
Rafa is thinking about 2006-2010
Owen is not in his plans. Owen is out of favour in Madrid and desperate to get some football before the world cup finals. We should not let him use LFC just to get fit for the world cup. LFC is not Owen's playground.

AND
Nothing is permanent in football. How many good seasons did Maradona have after 1988? Ok, drugs did him. So what? Owen is injury prone and has a big ego. And most importantly; Owen is not suited to play it Rafa style. Rafa is building a TEAM. He is not after 11 individuals. Apart form hanging around and putting a few goals, Owen doesn't bring much to the table. i care about the WHOLE game. I do not care about how many goals a single player scores or what car he drives. Owen doesn't take part in the build up play, he is not working hard for his team mates, and he has not the skills required to be first striker at LFC. Accept it.

Go and drink a glass of milk scott... whats that gotta do with anythin?

Owen has injury problems and yes he will be missing for 2 months every season. Whats your point? He still manages MORE than double the amount of goals Baros scored. In fact, i bet if we got him fit for one season, he'd treble what Baros scores.

As for not being suited to Rafa's style... you're surely having a laugh? Under Houllier Owen had to do it all alone with no support from midfield and only Murphy and Gerrard capable of playing the balls he needs to do most damage, no he'd have Zenden, Gerrard, Alonso, Luis Garcia and Morientes in there, all with a brain and all clever players who play the sort of football Owen has always played. Which is on the floor, fast and intelligent football.

Owen hangs around and puts a few goals in? Well i've got news for you lad. Goals win you games. Now i'm not bein funny, but the reason our away record under Houllier was so good is because of Owen. He scored away from home at any ground and where we'd lose 1-0 away, we might have drew 1-1, or won 2-1, or where we'd draw 0-0 we'd win 1-0. How many games has Baros WON for us this season with his goals or how many games has he saved us from defeat? Millwall and Palace? i can't think of any more off the top of my head.

As for Owen not being hard working, you're simply talking out of your . The lad doesn't charge round like Baros like a headless chicken. He simply looks at the defenders, splits them up, makes them play into a certain area and doesn't let them pick him off as easily as Baros does, he holds his position which is the more sensible and knowledgable thing to do. Anyone who thinks he's lazy, has simply never watched him play. Its as simple as that.

You say he doesn't bring much else to the team except goals. Well, again, i encourage you to actually watch him play live. He's a goal threat every second he's on the pitch and keeps two defenders occuppied at nearly all times. He also does't conceed possession as stupidly and needlessly as Baros and he also releases the ball quicker than Baros and normally to a player in space aswell. Again if you'd watched him play, he recieves the ball, he plays a pass and the fans clap... the fans don't clap because its Owen, they clap because its a good pass to a player with alot of space. This is why fans are very annoyed with Baros, he just fails to do this EVERY time he gets the ball.

When you're a striker and you're 35 yards away from goal and the ball comes into you with your back to goal you look for a pass to a player in space or on the move who's going to help you get closer to the goal, you then make your move once you've released the ball to that player in space who in turn again has to do something positive, this keeps the momentum going. With the fabulous headless chicken Baros, this momentum breaks down ALL the time. The things is this side now has the ability to get the very best out of Owen. We have more players on his wave length in a similar class. 4 years ago, we didn't.

Gosh man. You do not support LFC, you support Owen. Your problem. Do you take Rafa for a fool? If your story was true, then surely Rafa would have signed him months ago when he fell out of favour in spain. He has had 3 different managers in spain, they all benched him. His teammates have all been terrible frustrated by his poor link up play and his general contribution to the game. He is on the transfer list. And he has been up for grabs for a long time, you don't see many teams fighting for his services do you? So there must be something wrong with your story.

So why don't you take a glass milk and cool down, and support the TEAM not the players. Because the players, they aren't loyal and give a f@ck about you and the team. Their loyalty is their bank balance, and given the chance they will f@ck you twice. I will not let Owen do that, one time is enough.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:36 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Owen offers goals?? Yeah he did, until injuries took their toll and he is now not the player he was

John, he had a woeful season last year, stuggled with form, injury and had his head elsewhere, yet managed 16 league goals, 19 overall. Baros got 8 in the league was it... 9?

Again nearly double and he managed 13 overall, 5 of which came against Palace and Millwall.

Think about it mate, the difference in class of Owen and Baros is there for all to see.

Infact, Owen last season nearly had as many as Morientes, Cisse and Baros did this year put together.

Again Stu, I never mentioned Baros. I have fought his corner in the past but I was disappointed by Baros' attitude towards the end of last season and I think his days at LFC are numbered anyway. As for Cisse and Morientes, they may or may not do the business, but lets talk about them after they both get a full season under their belt, not now.

by **Houllier=LFC** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:50 pm

"Goals win us games" <--- Thats the primary role of a forward.
No matter how crappy they are, a goal can mean 3 previous points. Owen can score anywhere, home, away, international games. Since we are in the market for strikers, why would you want Crouch or Kuyt as a gamble instead of a player who had proved he can bang in lots with us?

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