Liverpool FC Forum

[kazza]

There must be a reason that Newcastle bought Owen for 16 million and a couple of years later they want to sell him for 9 million. It is not like they got their money's worth.

[maypaxvobiscum]

riise and bellamy for owen?
thats garbage. where in blue hell does the toons comes up with such ideas
gosh
and why do we even need to trade in? doesnt judas have a clause in his contract? 9m or smthn?

No, he had one with Blackburn but I don't think he has one with us 

Newcastle are just trying it on.

lol
judas didnt play for blackburn! 
cain did.

[maypaxvobiscum]

sigh.
let owen come back at anfield
our ball pickers arent fast enough.

[Bad Bob]

The one fact that runs through this discussion appears to be that whatever we think of Owens character we all agree that he is still one of the best strikers around. At the price thats being mooted (£9 mill ? ) I can't think of a better bargain .

Spot on.

In the words of Roger Daltry, 'I call that a bargain now let's get Owen baaaaaaaaack!' (or something to that effect)

[Bad Bob]

Exactly what the fck was Baros, Cisse, FSP and Neil Mellor - a load of sh!t.

Sorry to butt into a rather cracking discussion lads but I feel obliged to point out that not only was Cisse our record signing and France's top scorer (ie. no one had any notion he was a bit merde that summer) but Baros had just won the Golden Boot at Euro 04 (making us think we had a hell of a player on our hands).  Hindsight's 20/20 and all that but, at the time, we very much looked like we had the players to soften the blow of Owen's departure.

On the other side, Rafa did fly to Portugal to try and convince both Gerrard and Owen to stay in the midst of the tournament so we can't accuse him of being too aloof and indifferent.

From my perspective, Owen was disgruntled with the way things were headed under the Houllier regime and had let his contract run down while weighing up options.  Houllier's sacking and the arrival of Rafa muddied the waters for him and it took him a few weeks to come to a decision after Portugal, by which time the CL qualifiers were upon us.  In other words, I don't think he'd made up his mind already to leave but had been leaning in that direction pretty heavily prior to Rafa's arrival and ultimately, he decided to take the plunge.

Anyway, I still think this is all beside the point.  He's undoubtedly a better striker than we currently have and he's available for a cut-rate price.  The only question to ask, IMHO, is whether the gamble on his fitness is worth it.  I'll leave character assessments to others (while gently reminding people that we did sign Craig Bellamy, after all)!

Baros was useless for us even before he went off to become a goldern boot winner. I think by then most Liverpool fans didnt expect the world from him as a striker. Granted he played in an exceptionally good Chec team, and deep down most Pool fans were hoping he could produce that when he came back after the summer, but he didnt, no surprise there.

Cisse at the time I think was compared to Henry    by one Mr Houllier. Another fine example of us getting all caught up in the hype of a player. Houllier did that famously with a few of his signings, and even Rafa too has done this with Mark Gonzalez. Yet again another player who couldnt cut it at Liverpool.

And really Neil Mellor and possibly Pongolle were never ever going to be the strikers this club needed.

I've made my feelings on Owen quite clear, and to alot of people when looking at a footballer you should only take what he does on the pitch to truly evaluate him as a player. I cant, I like to see what kind of person that player is aswell, through media coverage and interviews. You can learn alot about most players attitudes towards the game, the club and the team. Owen comes accross as a selfish little get to me.

I mean its pretty similar to who was the greatest footballer of all time. Some say Pele, others Maradonna, unfortunately though the Argie probably was 'technically' the better footballer. But alot of people would say Pele for the simple fact that Maradonna was a cheat, and drug addict on so on. Alot of people judge a player by what he does on the pitch and off it. That is why there is no clear cut winner in the greatest player ever debate I reckon. If the Argie had condoned himself better off the field and of course didnt cheat on the Worlds greatest stage, he'd be easily the best player of all time.

Okay with Owen its not the same, but the princibal is ... knid of. Alot of fans will say he scored shed loads of goals for us, I'd have hime back. But others wouldnt they didnt like the way he acted when he jumped ship, people dont like the way he constantly talks about being fit for England and not his club as much. He, for me doesnt come accross as genuine in interviews, more like pre-rehearsed and colder. Unlike Fowler or Carragher when they do theres. Maybe we should only judge a player on what he does on the pitch, but the way he left the club does cloud judgement on him as a player and a person.

I wouldn't have called Baros useless pre-Portugal...more under-used, given that Owen and Heskey got the lion's share of the minutes.

But, that's beside the point.  Baros was in the form of his life in the summer of 2004 and we'd just signed what seemed like a cracking striker in Cisse.  So, it seems a bit harsh to suggest that Owen knew he was leaving us in the lurch in terms of our strike force.  Yes, Baros went on to perfect his headless-chicken-at-pace routine and Cisse became another casaulty of war at Ewood Park but I don't expect many of us would have predicted that turn of events, including Owen.

Look, I don't love Owen as a person either and I'd never trust that he had interests other than his own at heart.  But, he's got the talent, he's available for a song and, in so far, and his interests do align with those of the club (his aims of playing big match football, scoring goals and retaining his England place can serve us quite well) I say take a punt.  Hell, at 9 million I'd still get him even if we do sign Torres, Tevez or another big name.  He'll make our side better, full stop (that last one was for you LFC2007 ).

[LFC2007]

Sorry Bob, I've upest members of the "clique".

"outsiders" are not supposed to question the "clique" 

I get the feeling the "clique" play devils advocate just to say feck off to the "outsiders", after all why has Saint not been so persistent with other members, Mick for example - he also thinks Owen was a little cheeky fecker - but Mick is beyond questioning since he is grandmaster controller of the clique.

LFC 2007, i never had a problem with you. enjoy most of your posts, but i got to say, you are sounding more and more like an alter ego (probably of a banned former member).

There is no need for that comment (quote), just debate the facts, and don't pull the clique card out when backed into a corner.

Banned forum member!?? Heard that one a million times, ab rv,la, dt, pb sg, hr. Yep I'm all of those Babu.

I have debated the facts. I just find it very interesting how Saint likes to take up the debate with me but nobody else to an extent which is ridiculous, just like he wanted to try and justify the positive health effects of smoking until the n'th degree.

There is a clique on this forum, it's no co-incidence that whenever a newbie says something remotely questionable to one of the more established members you can bet a million quid there'll be someone waiting to pounce in their defence.

Likewise you'll rarely if ever see the established members agree with those who they hold a personal grudge against, they're happy to post in disagreement, but even when opinions do match in sync you would never see them openly agree. I've agreed with Bamaga man's posts before, despite us not getting on. Others around here seem to relish the vindictiveness of previous spats and choose not move on from it.

Despite largely agreeing on the main point which is - I would accept Owen coming back - and putting the more peripheral point of his character aside - there are those who are so vehemently pro-Owen/messiah owen/all hail king Mike/ that they MUST make sure they redeem his character for the sake of a petty argument. Even when it is patently obvious that he was in no way as loyal as they are making out, they turn the debate clinical just to prove the semantic in their argument correct.

[tubby]

Hes not coming now so this thread should really be shut. Owen

[account deleted by request]

Sorry Bob, I've upest members of the "clique".

"outsiders" are not supposed to question the "clique" 

I get the feeling the "clique" play devils advocate just to say feck off to the "outsiders", after all why has Saint not been so persistent with other members, Mick for example - he also thinks Owen was a little cheeky fecker - but Mick is beyond questioning since he is grandmaster controller of the clique.

LFC 2007, i never had a problem with you. enjoy most of your posts, but i got to say, you are sounding more and more like an alter ego (probably of a banned former member).

There is no need for that comment (quote), just debate the facts, and don't pull the clique card out when backed into a corner.

Banned forum member!?? Heard that one a million times, ab rv,la, dt, pb sg, hr. Yep I'm all of those Babu.

I have debated the facts. I just find it very interesting how Saint likes to take up the debate with me but nobody else to an extent which is ridiculous, just like he wanted to try and justify the positive health effects of smoking until the n'th degree.

There is a clique on this forum, it's no co-incidence that whenever a newbie says something remotely questionable to one of the more established members you can bet a million quid there'll be someone waiting to pounce in their defence.

Likewise you'll rarely if ever see the established members agree with those who they hold a personal grudge against, they're happy to post in disagreement, but even when opinions do match in sync you would never see them openly agree. I've agreed with Bamaga man's posts before, despite us not getting on. Others around here seem to relish the vindictiveness of previous spats and choose not move on from it.

Despite largely agreeing on the main point which is - I would accept Owen coming back - and putting the more peripheral point of his character aside - there are those who are so vehemently pro-Owen/messiah owen/all hail king Mike/ that they MUST make sure they redeem his character for the sake of a petty argument. Even when it is patently obvious that he was in no way as loyal as they are making out, they turn the debate clinical just to prove the semantic in their argument correct.

I have no grudge against you, I have no grudge against anyone on here. There are people I like more than others but I think most people tend to have posters that they get on with better than others.

As for being in a clique, I think thats just pathetic mate ,don't take it so personally, I didn't insult you, swear and abuse you, I just put my side of the argument as you did yours.

If there was a clique on here they wouldn't have me as a member anyway 

I try to get on with everyone, its a forum, I come on here to have a laugh ,discuss the team I love, and read others thoughts. I spend more time making jokes or laughing at others jokes than anything.

I respect BigMick, but I have disagreed with him many times, I suppose thats why I have never advanced in the clique 

Its just an internet forum, my advice would be enjoy it, dont take it so serious, and when I eventually start a clique you can join it   

[maguskwt]

there are those who are so vehemently pro-Owen/messiah owen/all hail king Mike/ that they MUST make sure they redeem his character for the sake of a petty argument.

no no... it's not king Mike... it's St. Michael...    ....i'm just kidding don't mind me...

[LFC2007]

Well it's funny how when I make a point you're the one to respond, but when Mick and the established members make a point you're happy to let it go.

Of course there's a bias towards established members, a clique would be one way of describing it.

Whenever I make a point that you agree with you would never post, whenever there's a point I make you disagree with you're more than happy to jump in and go on one of your rants. Just like you wanted to prove the positive effects of smoking so much that you took essays off the internet. In this debate you would never have taken up the argument with Feeney, you let it go, but with me - you couldn't help yourself. Had it been Mick or one of the other founding fathers disagreeing, I really don't think you would have gone on such a rant.

So yes, there is a type of clique on this forum.

[metalhead]

I think most of you agree that owen would definetly improve our squad and our attack (or maybe im stating a fallacy). IMO he will improve the squad big time. I don't blame Benitez for not getting him because he snubbed us and went to newcastle.. now thats a bit hard to take isnt it? Maybe he is looking for a player with character and commitment to Liverpool FC.

[maguskwt]

I think most of you agree that owen would definetly improve our squad and our attack (or maybe im stating a fallacy). IMO he will improve the squad big time. I don't blame Benitez for not getting him because he snubbed us and went to newcastle.. now thats a bit hard to take isnt it? Maybe he is looking for a player with character and commitment to Liverpool FC.

yeah i think there's some trust issues going on between owen and rafa...

[mattylfc]

I think the whole Michael Owen debate will always be a hard one to call. It seems today that the papers say we are not interested but the fact that the only link suggested the possibility of a swap for Bellamy and Riise makes it laughable so its hard to take it seriously.

On a personal note, i would back the idea of signing Owen if it was for approx £9million.  Thats aslong as we get our number one target aswell (Torres).  I cant see it happening though as i think we will only be buying the one striker this summer as we need to strengthen in other areas.  I think its fair to say that there is slim hope too that Rafa will give Owen another chance, wouldnt of thought so anyway.

Personally i would love it if we bought Torres and then went for Milito, Owen or Huntelaar aswell, pushing Voronin to 5th choice striker. I personally think that Milito will be one of the big guns in a year or so where we miss out and his value shoots up (just like a Mr Alves).

Torres, Kuyt, Crouch and one of the above would be extremely strong.

[metalhead]

From my perspective, Owen was disgruntled with the way things were headed under the Houllier regime and had let his contract run down while weighing up options.  Houllier's sacking and the arrival of Rafa muddied the waters for him and it took him a few weeks to come to a decision after Portugal, by which time the CL qualifiers were upon us.  In other words, I don't think he'd made up his mind already to leave but had been leaning in that direction pretty heavily prior to Rafa's arrival and ultimately, he decided to take the plunge.

I would like to ask you a question or try to remember something here badbob.

I think i remember that owen was telling us that he will sign a new contract and its a few days away from being signed (before real madrid).

If he was saying all that to the media, does it mean he was sure that he will sign a new contract or just distracting us or hinting real madrid to snap him quickly?

I don't think he was undecided about his future.

[JC_81]

If it's true that Newcastle offered Owen for Bellamy plus Riise, you have to laugh at fat Sam

Bellamy, who we could reportedly sell to other clubs for around 8 million and Riise, who must be valued around about the same price as Bellamy, in a swap for Owen who's rated around 10 million these days would be bad business for us.

I doubt it's true though, Allardyce would come in for a lot of stick for re-signing Bellamy.