Bloody scousers

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Ciggy » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:18 am

great article :;):

Why neutrals will be voting red

John Rawling
Monday April 25, 2005
The Guardian

There will always be those who are less than impressed by Liverpool Football Club. A friend of mine, who lives and breathes Manchester United, seems to find it impossible to speak about Rafael Benítez's team without prefacing his observation with "bloody Scousers . . ." No matter that only a couple of "bloody Scousers" regularly get a game nowadays, I suspect he is not alone among United fans in holding that particular sentiment. And as for Evertonians. . .

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But for Wednesday's Champions League semi-final first leg against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, Liverpool will surely have their biggest level of popular support across the country since the days when Bill Shankly ruled at Anfield. Chelsea may become champions tonight, should Arsenal fail to defeat Tottenham, but they have singularly failed to capture widespread public affection despite the undoubted excellence of their play.
The feeling is more one of resentment. The billionaire Roman Abramovich's patronage of Chelsea, with the £300m he has invested, has hardly endeared the club to a wider audience beyond south-west London. At the same time, from the manager Jose Mourinho's numerous spats with the Premier League, the FA and Uefa, along with his apparent inability to take defeat without a whinge, through to the leaden-footed machinations of the chief executive Peter Kenyon, Chelsea have sometimes seemed an unlovable bunch, however impressive their football might have been.

It is not only Arsène Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson who have formed the opinion that there is an unpleasant whiff of arrogance around Chelsea, not too far removed from Harry Enfield's condescending Brummie who began every sentence with "I'm conseederubly richer than yuaao."

Chelsea have had the two outstanding players of the domestic season in John Terry and Frank Lampard, who will thoroughly deserve all the acclaim and awards that come their way. Terry, whose character and form have been transformed, has given defensive displays which have been nothing short of heroic, while Lampard's development to become one of the outstanding midfielders in Europe, let alone England, has been extraordinary. But there is little doubt that for this forthcoming Champions League showdown it is Liverpool who will have neutral support behind them.

Perhaps it is because a team that dominated English football for so many years are now firmly cast in the role of underdogs or maybe it is because their Spanish manager seems as self-effacing as Mourinho is cocky. Perhaps also it is because the heart of a true Scouser, Steven Gerrard, still pounds in midfield for the fans, almost as one of them. And what of those supporters?

For the outsider, there is still the sense that Liverpool's fans remain closer to the traditional backbone of the game than their loadsamoney Chelsea equivalents. The reality may be a little different.

For a start Benítez has made it clear that he is an admirer of Mourinho and that he particularly respects the Portuguese manager's attention to detail in his preparation of his Chelsea team - an attribute which, in Sir Alex Ferguson's words, has "raised the bar" in the Premiership.

In addition the days when Merseyside dock workers clocked off at Saturday lunchtime to go and stand on the Kop in the afternoon have long gone, and the idea that the average Liverpool fan wisecracks his way through the few spare coppers he has in his pocket in support of his local club is an outmoded cliché.

Meanwhile Gerrard has not quite laid to rest the rumour that he is heading for Stamford Bridge at the end of the season, even though there was much rejoicing in Merseyside at the crumb of comfort given by the news last week that he has pulled out of two prospective house purchases in London.

In many ways Chelsea are now the club Liverpool and others strive to beat. And, if Benitez's team somehow pull off a semi-final victory, it would be a magnificent achievement and one to raise the Spanish manager's profile still higher.

Benítez has not yet come close to fashioning a team to match those of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley but he seems happy in embracing the history of success that others might have found intimidating. When he famously mingled with the fans in a German bar before the Champions League match in Leverkusen, it was a moment when he became more than just a highly paid overseas manager of Liverpool Football Club.

Benitez was on his way to achieving folk hero status and it was an impression underlined when Liverpool travelled to Turin to face Juventus in the quarter-finals to pull off one of their most memorable rearguard defensive performances in years, picking up a priceless goalless draw to preserve a 2-1 lead from the first leg.

Of course, the odds are stacked against Liverpool reaching the final. But, if they can rekindle the performances that did for Juventus, who knows? Chelsea are worthy Premiership champions this season but it is Liverpool who will have me and many others as adopted "bloody Scousers" on Wednesday night hoping for an upset.



It is not only Arsène Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson who have formed the opinion that there is an unpleasant whiff of arrogance around Chelsea, not too far removed from Harry Enfield's condescending Brummie who began every sentence with "I'm conseederubly richer than yuaao."     :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011

REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Postby zarababe » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:48 pm

.. theres a T-Shirt that an unoffical Chelsea supporter site have been selling and reads :

"I love Robben (pic of Robben) Just like Scousers... "  bl**dy disgraceful..

I say we rub there blue sh*t noses in it and win the Cup .. COME ON RED MEN ..
THE BRENDAN REVOLUTION IS UPON US !

KING KENNY.. Always LEGEND !

RAFA.. MADE THE PEOPLE HAPPY !

Miss YOU Phil-Drummer - RIP YNWA

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Postby L-type » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:27 am

Yeah right after we steal the trophy right infront of their eyes.
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Postby woof woof ! » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:41 am

L-type wrote:Yeah right after we steal the trophy right infront of their eyes.

:D   :D   :D
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Postby LFC #1 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:45 am

zarababe wrote:.. theres a T-Shirt that an unoffical Chelsea supporter site have been selling and reads :

"I love Robben (pic of Robben) Just like Scousers... "  bl**dy disgraceful..

I say we rub there blue sh*t noses in it and win the Cup .. COME ON RED MEN ..

I thought it was quite funny actaully, have a sense of humour and all that.

Some lads on RAWK were thinking of putting money can't buy me love in Russian on a banner!  :D

Money can't buy me love

just type that into the thing and put english to Russian and you'll see how it looks, this forum won't accept Russian characters, so couldn't post it.
Last edited by LFC #1 on Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LiverpoolFan00 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:13 pm

LFC #1 wrote:
zarababe wrote:.. theres a T-Shirt that an unoffical Chelsea supporter site have been selling and reads :

"I love Robben (pic of Robben) Just like Scousers... "  bl**dy disgraceful..

I say we rub there blue sh*t noses in it and win the Cup .. COME ON RED MEN ..

I thought it was quite funny actaully, have a sense of humour and all that.

Some lads on RAWK were thinking of putting money can't buy me love in Russian on a banner!  :D

Money can't buy me love

just type that into the thing and put english to Russian and you'll see how it looks, this forum won't accept Russian characters, so couldn't post it.


Just tried to post it aswell no good
Last edited by LiverpoolFan00 on Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Roger Red Hat » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:54 am

деньг покупает меня влюбленностью
Sex, drugs and sausage rolls!
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Postby stmichael » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:57 am

Another good Guardian article:

From The Guardian:

Can I join the Red army?

Tonight Liverpool take on Chelsea in the biggest all-British football match in decades - the Champions' League semi-final. But who does the neutral support - a Russian billionaire's plaything or a club that has long been the heart and soul of its community? Easy, says Stephen Moss. But is 24 hours in Liverpool enough to make him an honorary scouser?

Wednesday April 27, 2005
The Guardian

It's 8pm on a Monday night at Dickie's. At least I think it is. I was attracted to Dickie's, which is close to the Adelphi hotel in the centre of Liverpool, because of its pleasingly down-at-heel appearance, the three bouncers on the door and the fact that as I was passing - at just before eight, mind - a middle-aged woman was being carried out.
Inside, the karaoke is already in full swing. It is still light outside, but the greying, overweight, underdressed clientele is already having a great time. At £2 for a large tumbler of red wine, so am I. When I get a refill, the woman behind the bar asks me if I want ice in it.


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This is a magnificently vivid place. Men with square boxers' faces, women with hair the same red as Cilla Black's, pool players with cigarettes clamped to their lips, and defiant, burning-bright torch songs. A middle-aged man gives a brilliant rendition of King of the Road, a short woman with big blonde hair follows it with a spirited Stand By Your Man (and, slightly wobbly, immediately leaves, alongside said man), and an elderly woman brings the house down with That's Life - "I've been up and down, and over and out, and I just know one thing - that's life!" Who needs Aristotle?
I have only been to Liverpool twice before, en route for Aintree. This time I am staying - to try to get a sense of what makes it tick. When Liverpool take on Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final tonight, the nation must surely unite behind the democratic Reds against the plutocratic Blues. We are all scousers now. But what is a scouser and how do I become one?

I begin my quest at the cultural heart of Liverpool: Anfield. The key thing to realise about this footballing Mecca is that the area doesn't just contain one football club but two - Everton as well as Liverpool. Goodison Park is only a stone's throw from Liverpool's stadium, though happily there isn't too much stone-throwing. Retribution is subtler: the streets adjacent to Goodison are covered in ****** because Liverpool fans make a point of walking their dogs there.

The local pubs also make clear their affiliation, and I have a lunchtime drink in the Arkles, emphatically in the red camp. Barman Kieron Hilton explains the appeal of being a Liverpool fan. "People pay out thousands of pounds for shrinks and they're told they have to lose some aggression or anger. At Anfield, you pay £27 and you can sing, you can shout, and you can get rid of all your aggression."

Liverpool fans like to see themselves as culturally different from those of any other club. Their songs are more complicated; their banners wittier; their identification with the club absolute. "It's not about money or success," says Stephen Done, curator of the Anfield museum. "It's to do with a philosophy and an attitude. Steve Heighway [a Liverpool star in the 1970s] called it 'The Liverpool Way'. To play honourably and honestly, to give your heart and soul to playing for the club. And then at the end of the season, what will be will be."

Done recites the litany of triumphs - four European Cups, 18 league championships, six FA Cups - but says that the pursuit of prizes is secondary. "Liverpool fans aren't glory hunters - buying into some glamorous club that simply wins everything. We've got fans who were here with us through those long dark years in the 50s when we were a second-division club going nowhere. There was no glory then, yet the biggest attendance in the history of Anfield was in the early 50s."

I ask Done what I have to do to become a Liverpool fan in time for tonight's game. "Well, you'd better learn the songs," he says. "You have to know the words to You'll Never Walk Alone. That's a basic requirement: stand there with your scarf and sing You'll Never Walk Alone at the top of your voice." You'll Never Walk Alone I can probably manage, but I'm not so sure about Scouser Tommy - a song that imagines a soldier from Liverpool lying mortally wounded on the battlefield and reciting, with his dying breath, great players and results from the club's history. I fear this epic may be beyond me. Liz Crolley, a lecturer in football at Liverpool University, says that a supporters' website recently made the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that all new fans should compose a 60-verse song about the club as an initiation rite.

Crolley, a long-standing supporter, is also besotted with "The Liverpool Way". "We admire Jose Mourinho, but we couldn't have him as our manager," she says. "He's too flash. It's just not our style. Not all our fans are poor; there are rich ones, too. But they hide their wealth; they almost feel guilty about it. No one is ostentatious."

As well as knowing the songs, you need to be a dab hand with a banner. Done mentions some of the classics, including what he considers the all-time gem, a homage to player Joey Jones unveiled on the terraces of Rome in 1977 before the European Cup final - "Joey ate the frogs' legs, made the Swiss roll and now he's munchin' Gladbach". "I defy anyone to find a banner which is better than that," says Done. "Joey Jones was probably the least talented of the team in that wonderfully gifted double-winning side of 77, but he had a heart as big as Liverpool and the fans loved him."

The demands of being a Liverpool fan seem rather arduous. You need what Kieron Hilton calls "cracking wit"; more than that, though, you need passion and warmth. At the club's large shop, where I buy my scarf, hat, "Scouse community" passport and a biography of Bill Shankly, they are doing brisk business selling red charity wristbands commemorating the Hillsborough and Heysel disasters. Beneath the plaque outside the ground that names the victims of Hillsborough, many of them teenagers - the age 17 recurs with grim frequency - are several hundred floral tributes marking the recent 16th anniversary of that tragedy. This is a club, and a city, that cares.

But does it care too much? The critics who label it "self-pity city" certainly think so. One football reporter told me he had never witnessed as many one-minute silences as he had in Liverpool. The view was represented in its most extreme form by the Spectator editorial after the murder of Ken Bigley. "A combination of economic misfortune ... and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They ... see themselves, whenever possible, as victims, and resent their victim status, yet at the same time wallow in it."

The article was wrong about so many things, not least the number of victims of Hillsborough, that it is fair to assume that the still anonymous writer was someone with only the scantiest knowledge of the city, a Tory whose shorthand for Liverpool would read yob culture, workshy, Derek Hatton, Militant. The leader of the council, Mike Storey, says that such outdated views are still surprisingly prevalent. "Perceptions haven't caught up with reality: we have low unemployment, one of the lowest crime rates in any metropolitan area, and the population of the city is rising for the first time in 70 years."

Mike Hill, director of recruitment agency Bluefire Consulting and a passionate Everton fan (lest I give the impression that this city is entirely red), has been campaigning to attract Liverpudlian professionals, who fled in the depressed 80s and early 90s, back to the city. That means countering London-centric prejudices. "It's fair to say that if you want to come to Liverpool and reinforce the stereotypes via examples that you may see on the streets, I'm sure you can find those stereotypes - the solariums and the shell suits and the overall Chelsea culture. There's certainly evidence of that, but walk around any provincial city and you'll find individuals like that ... There's a highly entre preneurial culture in Liverpool which has developed over the past 10 or 15 years."

There is no escaping the shell suit, though. In fact, a key question in my attempt to become an instant Liverpudlian is should I buy one for my tour of the city's sites. "If you do, make sure it's a good one," a journalist who covers the city tells me. "Go for Lacoste." But Gemma Bodinetz, artistic director of the Liverpool Everyman and Playhouse, talks me out of it. "I don't see many shell suits," she says. "It is a city of labels, however. I always feel slightly underdressed. People like their Dolce & Gabbana. The girls always look as if they're about to go out nightclubbing when they could just be going round Tesco."

Bodinetz came up from London to work at the Everyman and Playhouse two years ago and says she has been struck by the engagement of the Liverpool public. "Before I even took up this position," she says, "I was having a cup of coffee outside a cafe with a literary manager, and people were stopping and telling me how I should be running this theatre and what plays I should be putting on. I could sit outside any theatre in London all my life and nobody would really care. They possess these theatres, they possess their culture; they want to do it, they want to write it, they want to be in it, they want to dance in it, they want to write a song for it."

In 2008, Liverpool will be European City of Culture. The only visible sign of that at present are the roadworks in the centre of town, but Storey promises a year-long festival that he hopes will complete the transformation of the city from social and economic basket-case to European super-city. However, Paul Jones, a sociologist at Liverpool University, adds a note of caution. "What people like Councillor Storey and others who are rebranding the city don't talk about is inequality or poverty or racism or sexism," he says. "It's not as if these things have gone away, and the real challenge for the city is to lessen inequality. It's not just to make Liverpool a better place for a small number of young urban professionals. There's a real danger that significant numbers of people are being written out of Liverpool's identity."

Jones tells me I should have a bowl of Scouse - a thick broth made from leftovers - while I'm in Liverpool. But the yuppie cafe in which we meet, a white-walled, pastrami-on-rye kind of place, doesn't have it on the menu. Sociologically significant, he thinks.

At the risk of indulging in lazy journalism, and even though Jones warns me that all generalisations are wrong, I need some shorthand to define the Liverpudlian. Bodinetz suggests articulate, engaged and passionate. "They like heart," she says. "The dry end of theatre doesn't go down well, but if something has heart they will travel any distance with it intellectually." I would add self-possessed, mocking, defiant.

When I take the Mersey ferry, which proudly claims to be the world's oldest, I only have a few minutes to buy a ticket and there's no one on the booking desk. There is, though, a woman at the gift desk, head bowed, writing something. I ask her how I buy a ticket. She looks up, smiles and says: "You ask me and I sell you one. Do you want to try it?" It is not said unpleasantly, but I am taken aback. It is very, well, Liverpudlian, has an edge you probably wouldn't find in Godalming. "I decided long ago never to walk in anyone's shadow," as a woman with honey-blonde hair and a fabulous tan had belted out at Dickie's. Does Jose Mourinho know what he's up against?
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