Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:30 pm

Was just thinking yesterday after Rileys diabolical decision on the handball that had we have had that professional, winning mentality he would surely have given it. I'm not advocating Manure like harassment of referees but we should have been going absolutely barmy after Pongolles one was turned down. We were at home after all, the crowd were fired up and a good, co-ordinated protest after that one would have ensured a positive response for the hand-ball. I know one thing, when we had a really good side I can assure you that we would definately have got a penalty in the second half if we hadn't got the first one. The referee would have been only too happy to give it to relieve the pressure from the players and fans.
That's what the winning mentality is all about, doing whatever it takes to get the result. The players reaction is what fires up the fans. Those in the ground haven't got the benefit of slow-mo' from various angles so often they haven't seen the offence as clearly as us part-time OOTers sitting at home (relax Leon, just winding you up

) so a bit of player reaction is needed sometimes. I know one thing for certain, Manure would defo' have got a penalty in the second half. Mind you, with this ref' they would have alredy got two in the first so maybe it doesn't apply.

by **parchpea** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:37 pm

We do seem to be on the wrong end of decisions lately. I have wondered if maybe we are too accepting of things sometimes, although Garragher seems to be trying to turn things around there. I dont like to think this way but when you look at some of the decisions this season at Bolton (Garcia goal ruled out) again at Middlesbrough, the Monaco handball and yesterday its very frustrating. I do not see it being evened out anytime soon. Overall, injuries included, we have certainly not been getting the rub of the green.

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:44 pm

Yeah they reckon it evens itself out. Well if it does then we are going to win the CL final with a brace of penalties in each half. The last one, a killer blow to the comeback kings of Barcelona, behind three times to dubious Baros penalties then finally killed off by a hotly disputed injury time Pongolle spot-kick (Baros wouldn't take it 'cos he figures that the keeper might be able to guess where the fourth one is going.)
The Croatian ref Gizzabungich is carried off on Carra's shoulders. Cue Clive Tilsley "the raffalution is well and truly under way!"

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:48 pm

Oh come on mick, you know better than that.

In football you make ur own luck and things even themselves out in general.

by **simic_ie** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:02 pm

Well with the lack of luck so far this season, and if things even themselves out then the future is looking very bright indeed!

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:32 pm

Stu to an extent I agree with your "stop winging and move on" attitude. However, if you'd seen it you would've been as angry as the rest of us. It wasn't just the penalties, it was the fact that we outplayed "the best team in the league" for long periods of the match. We were eventually beaten by a deflected goal ten minutes from time. This with a team massively depleated through injuries. Surely you can understand a bit of frustration and anger can't you? For sure we move onto the next game but until then if its ok with you I'm gonna carry on winging for just a wee bit longer

by **zarababe** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:43 pm

.. it is unforgivable when it's so blatant.. but unless the ref shows a willingness to consult his "assistants".. when he is not able to make the decision... then he ain't gonna change his mind, unless he sees the incident as it happens.. but a few protests wud be good

by **116-1104673748** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:57 pm

Look on the bright side.Now we know how to stop Chelsea's attacks.
Thanks to Portsmouth,Villa and Liverpool.

Now lets see Man Utd and Arsenal break their defenses.
Unbelievably,I hate Chelsea more than those two clubs.Since last season's beginning.

by **andy_g** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:48 pm

stu_the_red wrote:In football you make ur own luck and things even themselves out in general.

if you make your own luck does that mean we deserved broken legs for cisse and alonso aswell as hamstring injuries for kewell and baros to name a few? are they just bad luck or part of a greater scheme of things that will even itself out in the end?

i'm not trying to come over all mystic meg but some things are beyond our control and have to just be accepted. we can't bank on getting good decisions in the future to even out the bad ones we've had recently.

as you say, mick, the important thing is the mentality of the players. they have to get on with their job and not carry on feeling hard done by. and we, when possible, have to get behind them.

by **Paul C** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:32 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Oh come on mick, you know better than that.

In football you make ur own luck and things even themselves out in general.

I agree to a certain extent Stu but what about our injuries this season cos they haven't exactly been bruises as we've had a broken foot, broken ankle and a broken leg, groin (which may lead to an op), etc and your not telling me that we'll have a season where no one gets injured

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:04 pm

The original point which seems to have been lost a bit was that the really good sides have that 'winning mentality' and whatever the circumstance, nine times out of ten will get a result. I was screaming at the telly yesterday for somebody, anybody to get in the box in the second half and go over. Riley would've given anything in the second half, he knew he'd fecked up and would've redressed the balance. Particularly after they had scored, would anybody have moaned if we had got a dodgy pen and got a point?
That's what top teams do, they get a result any old way. It'll come though I'm certain of it.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:08 pm

I dont ever remember, and my dad has agreed with me, that we ever cheated our way to winning games.

This is the new breed of footballer, big, strong, quick and aggressive towards referees.

It is not the Liverpool way. The winning mentallity is, but that does not mean cheating.

It makes me sick to see players going on at the ref, as far as I am concerned, you win some and you lose some, the truly great teams of LFC's past done enough to win the games wether or not we got a good/bad decision.

I can in fact remember a few times when one referee did us a favour on a number of occasions, in the late seveties or early eightees, including an early whistle just before Everton scored in injury time from a corner. The memories are hazy, so it could well be against another team. This was nothing to do with our mentality, more bad/wrong (but nonthe less lucky for us) decisions.

I do not want to see LFC turn out like Manchester United of the 90's and Arsenal the last few years, a bunch of arrogant moaning prima-donas.

by **Mikz** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:19 pm

Agree with that absolutely.Id hate to see our team revert to that.Thats not really a winning mentality -its just being fired up,and with our luck -wed lose one or two to red cards.
Thinking back I cant remember any of our teams doing it either Leon, but then

we didnt need to.

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:33 pm

Hey hold on, I said in the original post that I wasn't advocating a Manure style intimidation of the ref'. What I am advocating is playing smart football. I maintain that at 1-0 down, Riley would've given us a penalty at the slightest opportunity. It's only the same as the centre-back who brings the guy down in the box then immediately leaps to his feet in indignation and has a go at the striker for going down too easily. Or the guys that appeal as one for a corner knowing full well that it was a goal-kick. Cheating? no. Gamesmanship? yes. Acceptable? of course it is.
Anyone who thiks that the great Liverpool teams didn't play the referees and bend the rules where it suited is in denial. It's not why we were the best team on Earth, but we may not have been if we hadn't played on the edge of the rules like all the good teams.

by **greece2004** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:41 pm

The referees make always mistakes and against all the teams.
They are humen.The players must to be fighters and they dont have to cry to the ref.If we wait for a penalty to win then we dont have chances.The best we can to is to make Anfield to be like HELL for the guests like we do in greece.To make them really understand that THIS IS ANFIELD.They must to respect us for our team and our fans.Thats the spirit......they fight us then we fight back and allways in athletick borders.Chelsea some years ago was a sympathetik team for the other fans but now everybody hates them because they became primadonas.

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