Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:35 pm

johnbarnes » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:56 am wrote:I have 3 scenarios for this question.
If we finish 3rd (likely) in the league and do not progress in the CL, I'd consider this a bang average season. Even though I do admit that in view of Klopp's team building we have made progress by finishing top 4 in the league in successive seasons.
If we finish top 4 (2-4) and win the CL, I'd consider this a very successful season for obvious reasons.
If we finish 2nd and progress to CL final, I'd consider this a good season for showing much progress.

Under Rafa, and Houllier, top 4 is a norm and now we are supposed to be grateful and say "yeeea it's not too bad, we are top 4".

Look, A football club is a business as well as a football club. We cannot forget that it is STILL a football club. And LFC is one with global fame, tradition, of competing, winning trophies, of being one of those elite european clubs. Yes, I agree that being financial strong is necessary, a good foundation to chase for success on the field. But success on the field MUST NOT be forgotten. At this point in time, selling your best player to grow the business is just a wrong strategy who's that then? . It is taking a step forward and 2 steps back. Why? For one, we are having a reputation as a selling club. Two, players who join us sees us as a stepping stone. Three, your team's growth suffers tremendously. Four, it is not that easy to find world class players. Five, how long will the re-build take? one or two more seasons to consider a top 4 finish and no trophies as a 'success'? one or two more seasons to say we are still in a re-building stage? Six, how long will Klopp's patience last before he says "Feck it, I'm going back to Germany and coaching Bayern Munich or the national team. If Klopp leaves, I tell you we are well and truly fecked.

The longer we go on without wining trophies and selling our best players, the more we go down this path where Arsenal is.

Your 3 scenarios read like a spoilt child who won't get what they want for Christmas, despite the fact it's only March
Your only consideration at this time should be:
LFC are still fighting for the CL title with as good a chance of winning it as any team left in the tournament. A 1/4 final spot proves this.
YET YOU AND OTHERS STILL MOAN!
Why not wish that we lose to $hitie just so you can prove that 1 of your 3 scenarios were correct?
PLEASE, take your fortune cookie and crystal ball and wish for us to WIN the CL THIS SEASON instead!
---

Did someone ask a question to which I answered? Would you like to roll the screen up a little bit and read maybe the 2nd time? And maybe this time use your reading glasses perhaps?

Under RAFA as you wrote it:
FACT:
Manchester City 2004-5 season finished 8th
Manchester City 2005-6 season finished 15th
Then a steady decline out of Englands Premier Football League
REALLY SUCCESSFUL!

Anyone talking about Man City?

Chel$ea - WIN THE LOTTERY! (and later Man $hitie)
Yet despite being able to buy the whole football world and any players it desired. Still could not beat RAFA’s men over 2 legs!

Anyone talking about Chelsea?

FACT:
MONEY has changed football and certain teams position in the Premier League. Not the buying or selling of any LFC player.
---

Good

That said. The only thing you wrote which I can agree with is the manager. WHY, because the prove of LFC's 'successes' have ALWAYS been under a STRONG managerial leadership.
KLOPP is pivotal to the future success of LFC. The same can be said of Pep, Maureen and Pochettino!
THIS can always be said of any club, during any time period...
STRONG manager + STRONG players bring success - NOT just STRONG players
---[/colour]

Good... but no one is debating that...

If 'we' could accuse LFC of one thing in the last 5 years, was to allow the Spuds to now be mixing it up with the BIG BOYS!
BUT this is also the failings of Arsenal and Manure. WHY? Because we along with the other two are the real brothers of my brother keep.
FACT: Based on the cycle of time and success.
---

How is LFC responsible for another club? erm... nvm just carry on?

So the next time you watch SKY Sports and they talk about THE BIG 6... Please have the common decency and respect to yell at the TV whilst kicking the dog and say FECK-OFF, TOP 6 MY *****!
---

Alright... sure... whatever you say mate...

[color=#FF0000]
MONEY has created the so called TOP 6
NOT SUCCESS.

uhumm...

by **johnbarnes** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:00 pm

Mags...
It's like this.
No fan of LFC is ever going to stand by the notion that it is ok NOT to win silverware. None of us think this.
So let's just agree on this one principle.
---
Even I can see now in todays football that it is a better for LFC now (and in the future) for us to claim a top 4th place spot rather than winning yet another League Cup and finishing 5th.
May be you agree with this, may be you don't?
---
As for the selling and buying of players. There's no single club in the world that truly owns its players anymore.
Barca recently sold a player for 200M because every player has their price. The same can be said of Di Maria when the t.w.ats payed stupid money for him.
---
So my only questions at this time would be.
At what point do you or I cease to question the logic of any Multi-million company that chooses to run 'our' club 'their' way. Before we simply accept the current reality and begin to support the club, the manager and his team 200% each game?
For me - to support them 200% in this moment is a whole lot easier and stress free than it was 5 years ago.

by **johnbarnes** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:05 pm

Reg » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:43 pm wrote:
Ghost of Shankly » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:26 pm wrote:So let me just clarify, I might be slightly confused.....

How much experience do you have of running football clubs again!?

FFS Every man and his dog thinks they are a football guru expert.

I don't pretend to run a football club but I do know how to look at a business and understand how to create value. If I owned LFC you wouldn't like me any more than you do FSG.

Exactly Reg.
Running a business emotionally will not conclude in a successful outcome for the business.
FSG are ruthless and cutthroat with an agenda of making money.
But what's wrong with that?
---
If FSG MAKE MONEY - THEN surely LFC at some point MUST BE DOING WELL on the pitch?
Regardless of who is sold or bought... Things on the pitch aren't too bad at the moment.

by **parchpea** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:50 pm

FSG have exceeded my expecations and criticism. Moneyball is working, wonderful team to watch led by an exceptional manager.

This in isolation is fantastic, but we are way behind the consistency of Man City and currently short of the worst Man Utd team in a decade. Superior on our day, we may finish 2nd, but currently behind.

All I would like is 1 or 2 seasons where we scrap moneyball and just buy to win, no age restrictions or sell on value. Not completely abandoning the principles, but temporarily loosening the purse strings.

FSG's great work should allow us to bankroll that. Club value and sales, we can take a punt. Also boys like Salah and Robertson already increase our capital.

Been a very long time for a league title, indeed any silverware. Let go of the reigns this summer and allow us to believe we can be Champions of England, have a genuine tilt at being No1 not 1-4 but top dogs.

by **Ghost of Shankly** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:14 pm

Investing in the team has got to be the first priority. That's what man shittty are doing, spending 200m etc. The commercial success will then follow, increased capacity, global brand awareness etc. That's how man utds empire was built.

Selling our best player's though, no matter what the price, is two steps back in anyone's book.

by **Reg** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:54 am

So, a new question.... considering everything FSG have done, what would you have done differently?

Remember, when they bought the club, they bought the debt so that has to be factored in, they didn't buy the club for a steal.

Realistically, I think they've done a great job. They made mistakes appointing Kenny and Hodgson and they allowed managers to waste a lot of money but that was because they empowered managers to spend. And to be honest the local managers/directors (Purslow, Comolli etc..) made some awful decisions.

So focus purely on the owners, what would you have done differently?

by **kazza** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:17 am

Reg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:54 am wrote:So, a new question.... considering everything FSG have done, what would you have done differently?

Remember, when they bought the club, they bought the debt so that has to be factored in, they didn't buy the club for a steal.

Realistically, I think they've done a great job. They made mistakes appointing Kenny and Hodgson and they allowed managers to waste a lot of money but that was because they empowered managers to spend. And to be honest the local managers/directors (Purslow, Comolli etc..) made some awful decisions.

So focus purely on the owners, what would you have done differently?

The previous owners hired Hodgson to replace Rafa who was fired out of spite.

by **Reg** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:15 am

Kool so there's one less thing FSG did wrong. :laugh:

by **maguskwt** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:30 am

Reg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:54 am wrote:So, a new question.... considering everything FSG have done, what would you have done differently?

Remember, when they bought the club, they bought the debt so that has to be factored in, they didn't buy the club for a steal.

Realistically, I think they've done a great job. They made mistakes appointing Kenny and Hodgson and they allowed managers to waste a lot of money but that was because they empowered managers to spend. And to be honest the local managers/directors (Purslow, Comolli etc..) made some awful decisions.

So focus purely on the owners, what would you have done differently?

The moneyball system, the transfer committee were a total disaster and Rodgers paid the price for it...

by **Ghost of Shankly** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:39 am

Reg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:54 am wrote:So, a new question.... considering everything FSG have done, what would you have done differently?

Remember, when they bought the club, they bought the debt so that has to be factored in, they didn't buy the club for a steal.

Realistically, I think they've done a great job. They made mistakes appointing Kenny and Hodgson and they allowed managers to waste a lot of money but that was because they empowered managers to spend. And to be honest the local managers/directors (Purslow, Comolli etc..) made some awful decisions.

So focus purely on the owners, what would you have done differently?

I would NOT have hired Brendan Rodgers as manager. That was a big mistake, no pedigree. I think Swansea finished 13th in the league the season before. Plus he blew a load of LFC cash on dud transfers.

Him and Hodgson for that matter. FSG have made a few blunders also.

by **kazza** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:17 pm

In Brendan Rodgers' defense, he did get us playing attractive football that was the foundation that Klopp is building on. I'm not sure Klopp would have taken the team that Hodgson or Kenny had as it was so far removed from the way he plays. Rodgers bought smaller, quicker players with more technical skills ( he wanted to emulate Barcelona). That was a good base for Klopp to build on. In a sense Rodgers never wasted the Suarez money as he padded the squad for Klopp.

by **damjan193** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:49 pm

kazza » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:17 pm wrote:In Brendan Rodgers' defense, he did get us playing attractive football that was the foundation that Klopp is building on. I'm not sure Klopp would have taken the team that Hodgson or Kenny had as it was so far removed from the way he plays. Rodgers bought smaller, quicker players with more technical skills ( he wanted to emulate Barcelona). That was a good base for Klopp to build on. In a sense Rodgers never wasted the Suarez money as he padded the squad for Klopp.

And he also kinda almost won the league.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Brendan did a great job, considering he was still in his 30's when he took us over and working on a limited budget he came closer to winning the title than any Liverpool manager of the last 28 years.
He changed our style of play and built an exciting forward line which revolved around the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling.
I think his age and inexperience went against him though because the club often over-rid his decisions (like the Balotelli situation). I couldn't imagine the club making a show of Jurgen in that way.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:42 pm

kazza wrote:
Reg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:54 am wrote:So, a new question.... considering everything FSG have done, what would you have done differently?

Remember, when they bought the club, they bought the debt so that has to be factored in, they didn't buy the club for a steal.

Realistically, I think they've done a great job. They made mistakes appointing Kenny and Hodgson and they allowed managers to waste a lot of money but that was because they empowered managers to spend. And to be honest the local managers/directors (Purslow, Comolli etc..) made some awful decisions.

So focus purely on the owners, what would you have done differently?

The previous owners hired Hodgson to replace Rafa who was fired out of spite.

H&G had lost all control of the club at that point and it was Martin Broughton who was calling the shots. He said he didn't sack Benitez but that Rafa negotiated his own exit. He was also the one who appointed Hodgson to steady the ship until a sale came about.

by **UvS xR4GEx** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:56 pm

I think Brendan was a very good manager and got the best out of alot of the players we had here at the time. The downfall was his failures in the transfer market. I don't think he was a big enough name as a manager to attract the players he wanted and target after target signed elsewhere (usually to our rivals over us) and Brendan then had to pick from the litter that was left over that no one else wanted.

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