Liverpool FC Forum

Said this last week:

There's been a lot made of us recently after beating the cannon fodder - Huddersfield, Maribor, West Ham and Southampton.

Sevilla & Chelsea coming up next will show us if we've turned that corner.

Seen too many false dawns under various managers to fall for it after dispatching teams we 'should' be beating.

Having said that, our performances (most recently against the Saints), have improved steadily on an upward curve & we do look to be simmering nicely.

Put this to bed, show us we're a good team and beat Seville

Too much hyperbole after the Huddersfield, Maribor et al performances.

We reverted back to type.

Textbook Liverpool.

Then again, what do you expect when you have starters like Mignolet-Moreno-Lovren-Klavan and Henderson?

Klopp's had long enough to rectify these glaring problems and the last TWO transfer windows have seen us fall behind IMHO.

Apathy season.

I think we all knew this season would be a write off after the pathetic transfer window. We had a decent season last year getting to the champions league in the first place and Klopp did a really good job with the players he had. Likes been previously said Klopp had a chance of bridging the gap with us and the top teams in the league by bringing in quality.. not only did he have the funds, he had champions league football to persuade players to come play for us.

This season so far and the position we are in is all down to Klopp being too stubborn and showing too much faith in underachieving players.

I've always thought that Henderson would make a decent water carrier (if he was surrounded by quality players) but the way Chelsea players were just waltzing past him like he wasn't there was pretty disconcerting. When you play in the position he does you just can't afford to be that easy to get past.
There's no way a keeper who makes as many mistakes as Mingolet does would be allowed to hold on to the number 1 jersey for 4-5 years at any of our rivals either.
As for the likes of Klavan, he'd struggle to get in the Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth etc starting XI's never mind a team supposedly fighting it out for the biggest prizes in the game and I am not saying that flippantly, he really would struggle to get past the likes of Mama Sakho, Scott Dann, Nathan Ake etc
Jurgen is doing a good job and I seriously doubt the likes Mourinho or Guardiola could get as much out of our squad as he does but at the top level quality is everything, trying to mould a solid defence out of some of the characters we have at the back and in midfield is like trying to push water uphill.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:41 am wrote:I've always thought that Henderson would make a decent water carrier (if he was surrounded by quality players) but the way Chelsea players were just waltzing past him like he wasn't there was pretty disconcerting. When you play in the position he does you just can't afford to be that easy to get past.
There's no way a keeper who makes as many mistakes as Mingolet does would be allowed to hold on to the number 1 jersey for 4-5 years at any of our rivals either.
As for the likes of Klavan, he'd struggle to get in the Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth etc starting XI's never mind a team supposedly fighting it out for the biggest prizes in the game and I am not saying that flippantly, he really would struggle to get past the likes of Mama Sakho, Scott Dann, Nathan Ake etc
Jurgen is doing a good job and I seriously doubt the likes Mourinho or Guardiola could get as much out of our squad as he does but at the top level quality is everything, trying to mould a solid defence out of some of the characters we have at the back and in midfield is like trying to push water uphill.

You conclusion is a tad not logical...Isn't Klopp the one ,maybe not the only one ,which is responsible for the squad? isn't he the one that choose not to bring anyone to strangthen the defence? isn't he the one that decided to keep Sub Par players in the squad? And this is just on his team building duties...What about his game management? Squad selection? He is doing a good job but he could do much much better ,in fact i'm afraid he already dropped the ball to many times on things he can directly influence and change...I've started as a Klopp admirer  but i'm finding it harder and harder to understand the logic behind his decisions or lack off...Very concerning.

UvS xR4GEx » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:58 am wrote:
This season so far and the position we are in is all down to Klopp being too stubborn and showing too much faith in underachieving players.

I'm a huge fan of Klopp, but agree that he has a weakness when it comes to his loyalty to some of his squad.

There are 3 or 4 players who regularly let him down by switching off or doing stupid stuff on the field. The worst culprit is Henderson; he does little apart from slow down play and pass the pass sideways and backwards. The only thing he is good at is waving his arms at the ref whenever he thinks a decision has gone against us....we need a leader on the field and I'm hoping Lallana will stake a case. He's improved immeasurably under Klopp and could be the answer.

only me » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:53 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:41 am wrote:I've always thought that Henderson would make a decent water carrier (if he was surrounded by quality players) but the way Chelsea players were just waltzing past him like he wasn't there was pretty disconcerting. When you play in the position he does you just can't afford to be that easy to get past.
There's no way a keeper who makes as many mistakes as Mingolet does would be allowed to hold on to the number 1 jersey for 4-5 years at any of our rivals either.
As for the likes of Klavan, he'd struggle to get in the Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth etc starting XI's never mind a team supposedly fighting it out for the biggest prizes in the game and I am not saying that flippantly, he really would struggle to get past the likes of Mama Sakho, Scott Dann, Nathan Ake etc
Jurgen is doing a good job and I seriously doubt the likes Mourinho or Guardiola could get as much out of our squad as he does but at the top level quality is everything, trying to mould a solid defence out of some of the characters we have at the back and in midfield is like trying to push water uphill.

You conclusion is a tad not logical...Isn't Klopp the one ,maybe not the only one ,which is responsible for the squad? isn't he the one that choose not to bring anyone to strangthen the defence? isn't he the one that decided to keep Sub Par players in the squad? And this is just on his team building duties...What about his game management? Squad selection? He is doing a good job but he could do much much better ,in fact i'm afraid he already dropped the ball to many times on things he can directly influence and change...I've started as a Klopp admirer  but i'm finding it harder and harder to understand the logic behind his decisions or lack off...Very concerning.

He was trying to get Van Dijk right up until the window closed so it wasn't as if he was happy with what he'd got. We are not a petro-dollar club and Jurgen is not renowned for splashing the cash yet he was prepared to smash the world transfer record for a defender so it's fair to say that he was pretty fvcking desperate to sign a quality CB.
He also secured the signature of one of the most highly rated CM's playing in Europe as well so he obviously knows that our midfield isn't up to the job either.
Is it Jurgen's fault that our backroom staff couldn't get these deals done quicker? We are clearly heading in the right direction we just need to show a little patience.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 am wrote:

only me » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:53 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:41 am wrote:I've always thought that Henderson would make a decent water carrier (if he was surrounded by quality players) but the way Chelsea players were just waltzing past him like he wasn't there was pretty disconcerting. When you play in the position he does you just can't afford to be that easy to get past.
There's no way a keeper who makes as many mistakes as Mingolet does would be allowed to hold on to the number 1 jersey for 4-5 years at any of our rivals either.
As for the likes of Klavan, he'd struggle to get in the Palace, Swansea, Bournemouth etc starting XI's never mind a team supposedly fighting it out for the biggest prizes in the game and I am not saying that flippantly, he really would struggle to get past the likes of Mama Sakho, Scott Dann, Nathan Ake etc
Jurgen is doing a good job and I seriously doubt the likes Mourinho or Guardiola could get as much out of our squad as he does but at the top level quality is everything, trying to mould a solid defence out of some of the characters we have at the back and in midfield is like trying to push water uphill.

You conclusion is a tad not logical...Isn't Klopp the one ,maybe not the only one ,which is responsible for the squad? isn't he the one that choose not to bring anyone to strangthen the defence? isn't he the one that decided to keep Sub Par players in the squad? And this is just on his team building duties...What about his game management? Squad selection? He is doing a good job but he could do much much better ,in fact i'm afraid he already dropped the ball to many times on things he can directly influence and change...I've started as a Klopp admirer  but i'm finding it harder and harder to understand the logic behind his decisions or lack off...Very concerning.

He was trying to get Van Dijk right up until the window closed so it wasn't as if he was happy with what he'd got. We are not a petro-dollar club and Jurgen is not renowned for splashing the cash yet he was prepared to smash the world transfer record for a defender so it's fair to say that he was pretty fvcking desperate to sign a quality CB.
He also secured the signature of one of the most highly rated CM's playing in Europe as well so he obviously knows that our midfield isn't up to the job either.
Is it Jurgen's fault that our backroom staff couldn't get these deals done quicker? We are clearly heading in the right direction we just need to show a little patience.

I agree with all you wrote but and that's a huge but...He needed players for THIS year ,he needed results and quality THIS year..Yes VVD and Keita would be a great addition but they didn't sign this year but they aren't here right? ,so you move on ,you go to your 2nd and 3rd option...Unless you are telling me their isn't anything out their which is better then Lovern and Hendo?! Not to mention he had Lallana and Clyne injured way ahead of the beginning of the season adding to our problems but stil no response...
Mate if he signs at the same urgency he subs players we are fcked..And  no one is surprised from what has evolved so far ,in a way it has been scientifically predictable how we performed..Everyone knows Defense and MF are Shiite and Wow they are actually Shiite ,Everyone know Lovern and Hendo and Moreno aren't good enough and those are exactly our weak spots..So Yes Klopp failed in building the team THIS year and to my understanding he isn't making the best of what we have as well with poor game management and lineup...I still think he is a genius but i'm pretty worried by his ability to address issues with the sense of urgency required in this game.

... Same old arguments. Defence and Midfield are not doing enough. We keep dropping points, and need to put a run together of a few wins on the spin to climb the table. But if Jurgen keeps rotating like he did yesterday, we are going to find it difficult. Milner and Hendo in midfield are not going to win you matches.
Seven league games coming up in December, we could do with winning at least five of those.

It was quite evident the gap in class between Chelsea's team and the nutcase's average players team is so huge, however, it was only to an excellent top performance Salah was the difference both  side and his goal should have won the game, but only for doggy keeper who was nervous from the start, just look at his face the way he was looking at Chelsea players in the tunel before the match.
As for the team line up to see Milner (he is already passed his sale by date) ahead of CAN our best midfeld players (who is packing his bags to join his Italian new club) it is really madness!!
It was the usual heavey metal type of football which it was not creative of constructive apart from Salah's top performance, and hold of ball by Sturridge to bring in the play, I know he does not apply the heavey metal styles but he brings to the team other options, not like the supper dud who was on the bench!.

Mane should have been introduced instated of Milner just after Salah had scored, drop OX to the midfield to assist the doneky captain, but I was not suprised to see the nutcase ***** up once again.

It is almost half of the season has gone, the team and players are really struggling so badly to cope with odd tactics of their odd manager, however, the squad is full of duds.

only me » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:53 am wrote:
I agree with all you wrote but and that's a huge but...He needed players for THIS year ,he needed results and quality THIS year..Yes VVD and Keita would be a great addition but they didn't sign this year but they aren't here right? ,so you move on ,you go to your 2nd and 3rd option...Unless you are telling me their isn't anything out their which is better then Lovern and Hendo?! Not to mention he had Lallana and Clyne injured way ahead of the beginning of the season adding to our problems but stil no response...
Mate if he signs at the same urgency he subs players we are fcked..And  no one is surprised from what has evolved so far ,in a way it has been scientifically predictable how we performed..Everyone knows Defense and MF are Shiite and Wow they are actually Shiite ,Everyone know Lovern and Hendo and Moreno aren't good enough and those are exactly our weak spots..So Yes Klopp failed in building the team THIS year and to my understanding he isn't making the best of what we have as well with poor game management and lineup...I still think he is a genius but i'm pretty worried by his ability to address issues with the sense of urgency required in this game.

We didn't explore other options because we obviously thought that Southampton would crack at the last minute and take the money, VVD is never worth £70m in a million years and we thought a selling club like them would never turn down ridiculous money like that.
LFC cant be blamed for assuming that Southampton would sell, they are the absolute epitome of a selling club, they've raked in tens if not hundreds of millions over the last few years selling their best players and they have pocketed £90m a season from Sky as well yet the most they've ever spent themselves on a player is £16m.
All the signs pointed to Southampton ignoring their fans wishes and selling, indeed Southampton will sell, just 4 or 5 months later than LFC thought.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:34 pm wrote:

only me » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:53 am wrote:
I agree with all you wrote but and that's a huge but...He needed players for THIS year ,he needed results and quality THIS year..Yes VVD and Keita would be a great addition but they didn't sign this year but they aren't here right? ,so you move on ,you go to your 2nd and 3rd option...Unless you are telling me their isn't anything out their which is better then Lovern and Hendo?! Not to mention he had Lallana and Clyne injured way ahead of the beginning of the season adding to our problems but stil no response...
Mate if he signs at the same urgency he subs players we are fcked..And  no one is surprised from what has evolved so far ,in a way it has been scientifically predictable how we performed..Everyone knows Defense and MF are Shiite and Wow they are actually Shiite ,Everyone know Lovern and Hendo and Moreno aren't good enough and those are exactly our weak spots..So Yes Klopp failed in building the team THIS year and to my understanding he isn't making the best of what we have as well with poor game management and lineup...I still think he is a genius but i'm pretty worried by his ability to address issues with the sense of urgency required in this game.

We didn't explore other options because we obviously thought that Southampton would crack at the last minute and take the money, VVD is never worth £70m in a million years and we thought a selling club like them would never turn down ridiculous money like that.
LFC cant be blamed for assuming that Southampton would sell, they are the absolute epitome of a selling club, they've raked in tens if not hundreds of millions over the last few years selling their best players and they have pocketed £90m a season from Sky as well yet the most they've ever spent themselves on a player is £16m.
All the signs pointed to Southampton ignoring their fans wishes and selling, indeed Southampton will sell, just 4 or 5 months later than LFC thought.

I agree that's what the club and Klopp thought but it's plain amaturish...You don't put the sake of a long and pivotal season over a single decision by anyone..You should have multiple options ,milestones ,backup...It's not rocket science...If your 1st option doesn't sign till certain date it triggers your 2nd and 3rd..Why gamble a season away over a decision of some other club owner?

Again a draw isn't a bad result but in reality we should have seen the game out and we could have if we didn't shut up shop so early. Personally I think Klopp was happy to get the point as he didn't make the right changes early enough.
I was surprised to see that starting line-up with so many changes. Mane on the bench  We threw him into a starting line up twice when he was just coming back from injury so why rest him now. Firmino is another who should have played at least some part. I know we have a lot of games coming up but already we can see poor game management and decisions.
We need to play the best team we can and we let ourselves down yesterday by not doing so.

Seeing how the likes of Arsenal and Man City scrapped for a win today in late late fashion, it seems that we are quite used to snatching a draw out of the jaw of victory

Yup teams apart from us are capable of scraping wins. Mannure are notorious for that trait and so are others.
If we were capable of scraping wins we probably would be 2nd by now.

Saturday fell at Klopp's feet for me. It was obvious Chelsea were up against tired legs in the 70th minute and changes were needed. Lallana was stood on the touchline for what felt like an eternity before coming on. The Kop starting chanting his name around the 75th and made their feelings that changes were needed pretty clear. 2 points dropped for me. Their fans were relatively quiet.