Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:46 pm wrote:i agree with the last 2 posters, if we bring someone like luis muriel in then fine, sell him, but while we are throwing the dice on spanish second division players i`d keep him here.

Come on mate, 'throwing the dice on spanish 2nd division players' is a bit harsh!

I haven't seen much of this Iaspas (or whatever he's called) but I'm going to predict he'll be decent value for money.  Likewise I think Toure could be an astute signing.

Pretty much all of us have had a pop at Rodgers at some stage about targeting players he has worked with, and now when he's casting the net wider and putting some faith in the scouting network he's still getting criticism!

It's alright saying we should go for Eriksen, Papadopolous, Benteke or whatever (personally I'd love to get any or all of them) but we have no evidence that Rodgers hasn't already tried to get these players.  I'm sure he probably has enquired, he's not an idiot and they are quality players who might be available and/or wanting a move.  It comes back to our pulling power for players at the moment, or lack of, due to FSG wanting players on incentive-based financial packages (with lower basic wage than they'd perhaps get elsewhere) and our lack of CL football.  I don't think it will help pull in bigger names either when people look at Suarez potentially moving on.

As for Downing, he comes into the 'replaceable if we get a half decent offer' bracket for me.  An offer of 10mil and up (which is extremely hopeful) and I'd shift him.  But he has improved the longer he's been here and rather than sell him for under 10 and take a punt on someone untested in this league (which is basically your point) I agree I'd keephim another season.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:46 pm wrote:i agree with the last 2 posters, if we bring someone like luis muriel in then fine, sell him, but while we are throwing the dice on spanish second division players i`d keep him here.

Even if we do bring in Muriel, or any other player who would be a step up from Downing , I'd keep him as a squad player. He has something to offer the squad, as do the likes of Allen, Henderson, Borini, Kelly..etc who are all not good enough to start.
No point in selling these players just to replace them with players of a similar quality, or even slightly higher quality, to perform a job as squad players at a significant financial loss. We arent a City or a Chelsea or even a ManUtd who have a strong enough established starting 11 to afford the luxury of improving our squad options.

john craig » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:19 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:46 pm wrote:i agree with the last 2 posters, if we bring someone like luis muriel in then fine, sell him, but while we are throwing the dice on spanish second division players i`d keep him here.

Come on mate, 'throwing the dice on spanish 2nd division players' is a bit harsh!

I haven't seen much of this Iaspas (or whatever he's called) but I'm going to predict he'll be decent value for money.  Likewise I think Toure could be an astute signing.

Pretty much all of us have had a pop at Rodgers at some stage about targeting players he has worked with, and now when he's casting the net wider and putting some faith in the scouting network he's still getting criticism!

It's alright saying we should go for Eriksen, Papadopolous, Benteke or whatever (personally I'd love to get any or all of them) but we have no evidence that Rodgers hasn't already tried to get these players.  I'm sure he probably has enquired, he's not an idiot and they are quality players who might be available and/or wanting a move.  It comes back to our pulling power for players at the moment, or lack of, due to FSG wanting players on incentive-based financial packages (with lower basic wage than they'd perhaps get elsewhere) and our lack of CL football.  I don't think it will help pull in bigger names either when people look at Suarez potentially moving on.

As for Downing, he comes into the 'replaceable if we get a half decent offer' bracket for me.  An offer of 10mil and up (which is extremely hopeful) and I'd shift him.  But he has improved the longer he's been here and rather than sell him for under 10 and take a punt on someone untested in this league (which is basically your point) I agree I'd keephim another season.

john the lad is 25 and spent his entire career (bar last season) in the spanish second division, i think my description is pretty accurate myself mate!
that doesnt mean that he wont come here and prove to be a revelation but in my experience the odds of that happening arent great.
i`m hoping he turns out to be a great signing but at the same time i`m not expecting him to be one.
never mind the falcao`s, ronaldo`s and cavani`s if our star has fallen to the extent that we cant even attract the likes of erickssen, papadopolous, muriel etc then we are truly fv.cked.

Why would we even consider selling him.

Ironic. The moaners who are whinging that we're not signing the likes of Messi, Neymar & Ronaldo (while telling us ironically again this club has no money or pulling power  ) ask questions like that ^^^ about Stewart Downing.

Because he adds options within the squad.

Benny The Noon » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:07 pm wrote:Because he adds options within the squad.

You don't just improve a team.

So are you going to bring in two wingers then - one to replace him in the starting line up and then one to replace him in the squad ?

Which two did you have in mind including cost ?

Is it a priority considering he actually provided an end product last year and it was actually our defence that was the problem

I'm all for improving the first team and squad but it has to be with proven quality not unknown unproven risks for small fees

We came 7th BECAUSE of mediocre players like Downing who are 7th place raters, ie Villa, where the lad came from. He spent the first half of the season running away from his shadow and then admitted he bottled it against Utd. He isn't single minded enough, he's full of self doubt and lack of confidence. Pussy.

We missed CL because of mediocre players like Downing and our better players like Suarez want to leave as a result.

We have to be brave and cut out the ***** and buy kwality, not mediocrity. Downing is a waste of money.

So are you going to bring in two wingers then - one to replace him in the starting line up and then one to replace him in the squad ?

Is Downing now that good he's considered two people?

Which two did you have in mind including cost ?

Aspas. (for starters)

Is it a priority considering he actually provided an end product last year and it was actually our defence that was the problem 

End product? Sorry, are we talking about the same player.

I'm all for improving the first team and squad but it has to be with proven quality not unknown unproven risks for small fees 

Yes, like spending 20 Million on Downing you mean.

So how did Man Utd win the title with players that did less than Downing ( combined )

We came 7th because we are soft at the back and let in far too many goals at set pieces and were bullied in the middle.

Kenny Kan » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:21 pm wrote:

So are you going to bring in two wingers then - one to replace him in the starting line up and then one to replace him in the squad ?

Is Downing now that good he's considered two people?

Which two did you have in mind including cost ?

Aspas. (for starters)

Is it a priority considering he actually provided an end product last year and it was actually our defence that was the problem 

End product? Sorry, are we talking about the same player.

I'm all for improving the first team and squad but it has to be with proven quality not unknown unproven risks for small fees 

Yes, like spending 20 Million on Downing you mean.

So a 25 year old unknown is now going to be better in the prem than Downing - based on what exactly - how many times have you actually seen him play ?

Who else are you considering ?

Benny The Noon » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:25 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:21 pm wrote:

So are you going to bring in two wingers then - one to replace him in the starting line up and then one to replace him in the squad ?

Is Downing now that good he's considered two people?

Which two did you have in mind including cost ?

Aspas. (for starters)

Is it a priority considering he actually provided an end product last year and it was actually our defence that was the problem 

End product? Sorry, are we talking about the same player.

I'm all for improving the first team and squad but it has to be with proven quality not unknown unproven risks for small fees 

Yes, like spending 20 Million on Downing you mean.

So a 25 year old unknown is now going to be better in the prem than Downing - based on what exactly - how many times have you actually seen him play ?

Who else are you considering ?

Sami Hyypia was unknown.

I'd also be inclined to have a little more faith in BR and his scouting team then you Benny, no offence like. Especially given the fact you are defending an absolute waster while bemoaning to all and sundry how s.hit we are as a team and club. The mind boggles, it truly does.

Sami Hyypia was a full international playing in the top league for a fair number of years before we signed him

Aspas is 25 and spent all but one season in the second Div.

So how many times have you seen him to judge that he will be better than Downing ?

So you have faith in BR - so if he decides to keep Downing and play him - then what ?

It's a lot of faith in a scouting system that has so far hasn't got a glowing record.

Come on Benny, its not a case of have faith in BR, BR plays Downing because he inherited him, not because he wants to.

Benny The Noon » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:34 pm wrote:Sami Hyypia was a full international playing in the top league for a fair number of years before we signed him

Aspas is 25 and spent all but one season in the second Div.

So how many times have you seen him to judge that he will be better than Downing ?

So you have faith in BR - so if he decides to keep Downing and play him - then what ?

It's a lot of faith in a scouting system that has so far hasn't got a glowing record.

Sami Hyypia came from Willem II for a mighty 2.6  Million pound, and played for Finland. So, please don't try and say we burst the bank for a proven world class center back, it's rather dishonest to claim that for arguments sake Benny.

I know almost anything would be an improvement on Downing.

It's faith in a scouting system who have just come in and nabbed Coutinho especially and Sturridge too, so I'd say it's pretty glowing. These two signings alone are better than buying Carroll, Downing and Adam for a combined fee of 61M.

So you have faith in BR - so if he decides to keep Downing and play him - then what ? 

If he,  like you decides that Downing will be an integral part player in getting us 4th, I won't berate him for it I just won't agree that he's the best we can do. I will disagree but I won't demand the manager's head over it.