Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

Pretty much all of us have had a pop at Rodgers at some stage about targeting players he has worked with, and now when he's casting the net wider and putting some faith in the scouting network he's still getting criticism!

Damned if does, damned if he doesn't.

[aCe']

Why would we even consider selling him.

Ironic. The moaners who are whinging that we're not signing the likes of Messi, Neymar & Ronaldo (while telling us ironically again this club has no money or pulling power  ) ask questions like that ^^^ about Stewart Downing.

I dont see whats ironic about what I said. I also dont recall saying anything about signing any of the above names, and if anything, I've been one of few who think the club HAS enough money to spend to bring 2 20mill signings without having to sell any of our current first team players.

I'm not sure if you have me mistaken for someone else or if it's just what you do to try to make point but either way, the reason we shouldnt be selling him is because he makes a decent squad player. From day1, it was obvious that he wasnt going to be someone who would elevate the side to the next level. He's a decent winger, probably one who would start for a Villa or Newcastle as you suggest, but isnt good enough to start for a top4 side. However, he's still better than Assaidi & Sterling. And the 3 of them are the only wide players we have in the side.

Now, the problem with your theory is this, if we were to sell every player who has the same problem as Downing (i.e not good enough to start), then we'll end up with 10 or 11 players in the squad and we'll have to go out and blow our budget to just fill in the numbers.

Ultimately it comes down to this, do you think that Downing is good enough to sit on the bench for Liverpool ? If not, then I can understand your stance despite not agreeing with it.

[Kenny Kan]

Ultimately it comes down to this, do you think that Downing is good enough to sit on the bench for Liverpool ? If not, then I can understand your stance despite not agreeing with it. 

Ideally No.

He doesn't make an impact. Whether it be from the bench, from the start or even from the top of the Empire state building.

[Benny The Noon]

Sami Hyypia was a full international playing in the top league for a fair number of years before we signed him

Aspas is 25 and spent all but one season in the second Div.

So how many times have you seen him to judge that he will be better than Downing ?

So you have faith in BR - so if he decides to keep Downing and play him - then what ?

It's a lot of faith in a scouting system that has so far hasn't got a glowing record.

Sami Hyypia came from Willem II for a mighty 2.6  Million pound, and played for Finland. So, please don't try and say we burst the bank for a proven world class center back, it's rather dishonest to claim that for arguments sake Benny.

I know almost anything would be an improvement on Downing.

It's faith in a scouting system who have just come in and nabbed Coutinho especially and Sturridge too, so I'd say it's pretty glowing. These two signings alone are better than buying Carroll, Downing and Adam for a combined fee of 61M.

So you have faith in BR - so if he decides to keep Downing and play him - then what ? 

If he,  like you decides that Downing will be an integral part player in getting us 4th, I won't berate him for it I just won't agree that he's the best we can do. I will disagree but I won't demand the manager's head over it.

Hyypia was a top player at a club in a top league in Europe who were qualifying for the CL with Sami as their player of the year - he had also been playing international football for 7 years - no one has claimed we burst the bank to sign a proven world class player. But we didnt spend nearly £10 mil for a unknown 25 year old who has had one season of top flight football - that seems more like Charlie Adam to me.

As for the scouting system - you can mention Sturridge and Coutinho - but then add in Borini , Allen and Assaidi to the mix

And again have you actually seen Aspas play football much ? Yet your claiming he is going to be better than Dowing ?

[Benny The Noon]

Come on Benny, its not a case of have faith in BR, BR plays Downing because he inherited him, not because he wants to.

So why didnt BR play him in the Prem during the first half of the season ? He has had two transfer windows now to get rid of him and he is still at the club.

You were saying that we were 7th because of Downing - yet he hardly featured in the prem during the early games ( when we couldn't win for toffee ) and when he started playing more often we then improved our form.

Do you think players like Welbeck , Young etc are much better than Downing ?

[Kenny Kan]

Hyypia was a top player at a club in a top league in Europe who were qualifying for the CL with Sami as their player of the year - he had also been playing international football for 7 years - no one has claimed we burst the bank to sign a proven world class player. But we didnt spend nearly £10 mil for a unknown 25 year old who has had one season of top flight football - that seems more like Charlie Adam to me.

As for the scouting system - you can mention Sturridge and Coutinho - but then add in Borini , Allen and Assaidi to the mix

And again have you actually seen Aspas play football much ? Yet your claiming he is going to be better than Dowing ? 

Righto.

We spent 8M on an unproven Coutinho.
We blew 20M on a supposed proven premiership player who contributed 0 assists in his first season and 0 goals too, and only a handful of each in the second season.

So, if you can somehow explain those two conundrums I'm all ears as to listening why we shouldn't spend 7M on a Spanish player who looks way more effective than Downing. I have seen Aspas play, ever since we've been linked with him and he looks much more of a threat than Downing - not hard I know but still he looks an improvement.

Charlie Adam can't run Aspas can.

Borini, Allen and Assaidi weren't scouted by the blokes from Citeh, our new scouting system so your point is irrelevant.

Have you seen enough of him to categorically KNOW he won't do well here?
Is it the fact he's 25 years old (you keep referring to his age), Downing's 28 and achieved fk all in his life this doesn't seem to bother you?
Is it the fact he's played some lower league footie therefore can't possibly be good enough for us?
Is it the fact Rodgers is signing him?
Is it the fact he may take Downing's position and scupper all our hopes of a top 4 finish without the Downing effect being an integral part of it?

[Benny The Noon]

Coutinho played over 50 first team games and was also recognised by his country at both youth and full international - he is a young kid with great potential - hence why one of the biggest clubs in Europe bought him - again he wasnt unknown.

Aspas is not a youngster with great potential who has been recognised by his country at any level - the difference between the two players is vast.

Aspas is 25 - he has been playing football for a lot of years hanging around the lower divisions - he has once decent ish season in the top division for a club fighting relegation ( sound familiar ) and that's it - nothing else.

Downing at least produced in the prem over a decent amount of years throughout his career at both Boro and Villa. You think he has achieved f*ck all yet he has done more than this Aspas guy.

All people have seen is You Tube clips and the one game last week - it's Mark Gonzalez all over again ( in fact Gonzalez was still young and had potential )

We need to be closing the gap on the teams above and we need proven quality players - not mid priced unproven risks. The teams above us will be looking at proven quality - they won't be looking at players like Aspas

For example City are just about to tie up the deal for Navas and also rumoured to be after the Greek ( Papadolous ) .

Spurs are looking at Diamo plus Willian from Donetsk

Arsenal looking at Jovetic

Previous managers were ripped apart when they signed players like Aspas - it appears BR and his scouting team get a free pass on everything but there is no doubt that if Kenny or Rafa or Woy were looking at Aspas the attitude would be massively different from some.

If Aspas proves me totally wrong then I will come on here and say j was wrong - you can quote me on that.

[Kenny Kan]

Coutinho played over 50 first team games and was also recognised by his country at both youth and full international - he is a young kid with great potential - hence why one of the biggest clubs in Europe bought him - again he wasnt unknown.

Aspas is not a youngster with great potential who has been recognised by his country at any level - the difference between the two players is vast.

Aspas is 25 - he has been playing football for a lot of years hanging around the lower divisions - he has once decent ish season in the top division for a club fighting relegation ( sound familiar ) and that's it - nothing else.

Downing at least produced in the prem over a decent amount of years throughout his career at both Boro and Villa. You think he has achieved f*ck all yet he has done more than this Aspas guy.

All people have seen is You Tube clips and the one game last week - it's Mark Gonzalez all over again ( in fact Gonzalez was still young and had potential )

We need to be closing the gap on the teams above and we need proven quality players - not mid priced unproven risks. The teams above us will be looking at proven quality - they won't be looking at players like Aspas

For example City are just about to tie up the deal for Navas and also rumoured to be after the Greek ( Papadolous ) .

Spurs are looking at Diamo plus Willian from Donetsk

Arsenal looking at Jovetic

Previous managers were ripped apart when they signed players like Aspas - it appears BR and his scouting team get a free pass on everything but there is no doubt that if Kenny or Rafa or Woy were looking at Aspas the attitude would be massively different from some.

If Aspas proves me totally wrong then I will come on here and say j was wrong - you can quote me on that.

Coutinho was unproven in England. And at 8M for a youngster that was a risk and it paid off, even when Inter were happy to get rid.

Aspas doesn't HAVE to be a youngster, what's in his locker is in his locker, our first team doesn't always have to be an academy.

You constantly say how shh.it and mediocre we are and bemoan we can't attract top players then rattle off who Citeh, Spurs and Arsenal are buying, as though we should be in for them, contradicting yourself all the time. So, now we should just buy players only the likes of Citeh, Arsenal and Spurs sign? Jesus wept. Just ask them for their player wishlist hey.

Is this Aspas fella going to be our one and only signing this summer?

We're reportedly looking at that Armenian fella for 20 odd Mill.
And Papadapadpolos.

You ignorantly forget  previous managers were "ripped" once (apart from yourself) certain flops had ACTUALLY FLOPPED, nothing prior to a signature on a contract. Aquilani at 20M was ripped once it was realised he like Downing didn't have the bottle, Keane at 20M was ripped once he flopped, Hodgson, well, I remember you did the exact same thing as you are doing now, you ripped everyone of his signings before they had kicked a ball which tells me you don't like Rodgers so you're going to keep throwing your rattle out of the pram and are going to be super negative about the bloke until he leaves.

What you can't comprehend (only with managers you don't like) is that managers don't get a free pass, how can they? You have to wait and see what their signings are like before you can properly critisize them. But you know that full well, you just troll depressive posts to get a reaction merely because you don't like Rodgers, it's Hodgson MkII with you all over again.

Previous managers were ripped apart when they signed players like Aspas - it appears BR and his scouting team get a free pass on everything but there is no doubt that if Kenny or Rafa or Woy were looking at Aspas the attitude would be massively different from some.

I have to re-iterate this again as it appears to me this conspiracy you hold is all in your head and just because you have an agenda about a certain manager doesn't mean all other fans think deviously about them like you do and that there is an underlying conspiracy to stick by a manager. It's simply called support and faith something you don't seem to have much of.

[Benny The Noon]

Yes I did rip Hodgson and the players he bought because I felt both him and his players werent good enough - remind me again how him and his players turned out.

Ill tell you what - we will revisit this conversation again at the end of the transfer window and then during the season

If I'm wrong I will state as such.

But as for support and faith - i don't think anyone can preach on here to anyone about support and faith with the treatment previous managers have received from "fans".

[Reg]

But as for support and faith - i don't think anyone can preach on here to anyone about support and faith with the treatment previous managers have received from "fans".

Two emotion words 'support' and 'fans' both massively over used and misunderstood.

I've supported LFC all my life and will do so to the grave despite the clubs best efforts to pi$$ me off. That makes me a fan.
I support the team and individuals as much as I think they deserve but at the same time I live my personal life by a set of standards and don't reserve a different set for the manager, players and fans of LFC. Hence I withdrew my support for Woy within a few months and have real issues with some of the players we've bought over the last few years.  I remain appalled by Heysel,

I do not hide behind tribalism that accepts whatever performance, behaviour or in some cases mindless stupidity that happens on or off the pitch. I consider the issues and make my own decision. Rafa was the best manager we've had in the last 25 years but cracked under the strain of the previous owner's. Dalglish should have been caretaker manager until a suitable replacement was found and walked away with yet further accolades in answering the call in time of need. Rodgers is like the owners, solid but not fancy, the jury is still out, he has my support for another 18 months.

To me that's the definition and limits of 'support' and being a 'fan'.

[Kenny Kan]

Yes I did rip Hodgson and the players he bought because I felt both him and his players werent good enough - remind me again how him and his players turned out.

Ill tell you what - we will revisit this conversation again at the end of the transfer window and then during the season

If I'm wrong I will state as such.

But as for support and faith - i don't think anyone can preach on here to anyone about support and faith with the treatment previous managers have received from "fans".

What, revisit the fact that Downing is ordinary. No thanks I already know that Benny.

[Benny The Noon]

Will revisit the impact of players like Aspas and look at the other signings made and their impact.

[Kenny Kan]

Will revisit the impact of players like Aspas and look at the other signings made and their impact.

After two full seasons it would be ample time to discuss Downing's contribution but no, a certain someone wants to discuss the impact on a player who is currently playing for Celta Vigo. How odd.

[Benny The Noon]

Not sure why it's odd

You are suggesting that Apsas will do better than Downing and that we still haven't finished our signings yet

So I suggested we will revisit it in the future to see the impact of the signings to see if they have done better than Downing - and if Aspas or whoever was a good replacement for Downing

[Kenny Kan]

Not sure why it's odd

You are suggesting that Apsas will do better than Downing and that we still haven't finished our signings yet

So I suggested we will revisit it in the future to see the impact of the signings to see if they have done better than Downing - and if Aspas or whoever was a good replacement for Downing

To counter the initial doom you've brought upon us which you started by you proclaiming Aspas a failure before he's even signed a contract for us. Like I said, I find this odd.